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I'm all for discussion, just not playing your game and will not answer questions when we both know the answer.
I didn't say that.
Sorry you don't want to discuss in your discussion thread anymore.
I'm all for discussion, just not playing your game and will not answer questions when we both know the answer.
I should have phrased that better. I was asking you your opinion of who should make the call outside the mother's control as landlord at that point.
I think the background check they use is is the NICS. I don't think Lanza's mental condition had been adjudicated so it wouldn't have showed up there.
That is what background checks are for, and again, the system is broken. If our government was serious about this they'd put money into fixing it. Banning suppressors, flash hiders, collapsible stocks and high capacity magazines doesn't do . They are laws that make soccer mom's feel safe.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/health...-illness-guns/
Repeated system failure
"Even after you have a brief conversation with (Gerald Hume), you can tell something is not right," Nelson said. "Visibly, he even looks 'off.'"
Many law enforcement and gun merchants are frustrated with the system, he said. But "what could (the retailers) do if a person passes a background check? They don't have the authority to check if he's lying. We as law enforcement don't even have that ability, because mental health records are kept in each separate jurisdiction in Oklahoma. Those files aren't transferred to a central state or federal system we can check.
"It's far too easy to pass a federal background check."
Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental ins ution."
Federally licensed gun shops must use the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS. Private sellers and gun shows have no background check requirement.
But information in the NICS is incomplete, particularly where mental health records are concerned, investigations found. That's because of what some of the system's critics call a huge legal loophole in the background check laws that put "guns in the hands of killers," according to a study conducted by a group of mayors.
The system is only as good as the data. And "the data is the real problem," said Mark Glaze, the director of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, an organization whose recent in-depth study found millions of mental health records were missing from the federal background check system.
"It's an unsatisfying answer, since people always want to blame the soft federal laws or blame the gun lobby," he said. "But if you have ever worked around a state legislature, they'll tell you there is no money and no time to improve this kind of reporting.
"It's sad, but sometimes it takes a national crisis to get people to notice."
It was in the wake of a national crisis -- the shootings at Virginia Tech -- that President George W. Bush signed the bipartisan-backed "NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007." The National Rifle Association-supported piece of legislation was aimed at strengthening state reporting of vital information about mental illness to the federal database used for gun background checks. The NRA did not respond to an interview request.
Why new laws could miss America's bigger gun problem
Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people at Virginia Tech using guns he bought at a federally licensed dealer. He had passed the federal background check, even though a judge had declared Cho mentally ill the year before. Virginia failed to send that information to the federal system so his name would have been flagged.
'Lack of political will'
Generally, background checks have kept more than 1.5 million guns out of the wrong hands, according to federal records.
This law has now been in place for about five years, but a federal investigation last July, in addition to the in-depth study from the Mayors Against Illegal Guns, found the vast majority of states fail to pass on mental health records to the federal system. That means the mentally ill may still easily buy guns.
As of October 2011, 23 states and the District of Columbia had submitted fewer than 100 mental health care records. Seventeen submitted fewer than 10 records, and four states hadn't reported a single record to the federal background check system, according to the federal investigation, conducted by the Government Accountability Office.
As of October 2012, Oklahoma had submitted only three mental health records to the NICS Index, according to the mayors' group.
When study researchers wanted to find out why, they spoke with an unnamed Oklahoma official who said there were no state privacy laws or logistical hurdles blocking record submission in Oklahoma, as there are in other states. Rather, a "lack of political will appears to be the only barrier to submission," according to the unnamed official cited in the study.
Under current state law, the only cases Oklahoma sends to the federal system are people who have been forcibly committed. Hume did not meet that criteria, according to police.
Under the 10th Amendment, the federal government cannot legally make states submit these records, regardless of importance. "Instead they've got to beg, shame or really hang a lantern on the problem to get the states to comply with this federal law," Glaze said.
To do that, the 2007 law provides financial incentives and punishments to get states to send records. The states can use the money to pay someone to clean up data or submit it to federal agencies. Some grants are large enough to help states build new record-keeping systems.
Who do you think should have guns?
Penalties can be doled out to states that don't send records in, but no one seems to know of any that have actually been handed out.
"The law has never acted the way it was designed to," said Shams Tarek, spokesman for U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, a New York Democrat who initiated the bill. "The problem is the bill relies on congressional appropriations for its funding, and it's never had even close to the full amount it should get."
That's true even under the Obama administration, which has recently proposed its own solutions to help keep guns away from the violent and mentally ill in the wake of the massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut.
The Obama administration asked for $5 million in fiscal year 2013, according to Tarek, who describes that as "a pittance." Republicans in Congress -- notably two from Virginia, added Glaze -- more than doubled that request, but even that was about a quarter of the money needed, according to Tarek.
Federal investigators found that while more mental health records are going into the system than ever, 12 states are responsible for the bulk of those records.
"Most states made little to no progress with their reporting," said Carol Cha, co-author of the GAO investigation. "The rewards and penalties put in place are not sufficiently effective."
By the numbers: Guns and mental health
Other barriers
The investigation, which came out in July, found three other main barriers to states' reporting.
First, there were technical limitations. Some states still rely on paper records. Only a small number keep a central database that would be easy to transfer, according to Cha.
The second barrier relates to states' privacy laws. "Many of the states we spoke to felt they may need explicit state statutory reasons to share the data," Cha said. "They erroneously felt there were privacy issues."
In the 20 states that do have laws mandating reporting, the rates are higher. Texas passed a law in 2009 increasing the number of records it sends to the system by 200,000, according to Cha.
That makes gun-friendly Texas -- the state next to Oklahoma, which has only reported three records -- one of the best record-reporters to the federal background check system in the nation, according to the analysis by the mayors' group.
The final barrier is a lack of communication between state agencies. Mental health records are kept in a variety of offices that don't all talk to each other.
In Illinois, for instance, the state auditor general told Cha there are some 114,000 mental health records kept in private hospitals. In 2010, only 5,000 were reported to the federal system. "There is no formal mechanism in place to share these records, and that's got to change," Cha said.
Some states told Cha they weren't aware of the incentives to report. She's encouraged the states that are effectively reporting this information to help those that aren't.
Glaze and the Mayors Against Illegal Guns group hopes McCarthy's new Fix the Gun Checks Act of 2013 will increase funding to put some real teeth into the law. Glaze is also hopeful about the president's latest moves to urge universal background checks and to improve this reporting system.
Obama has been a consistent critic of the law, writing in an op-ed piece last year that "We must do better."
Nelson, the Oklahoma City police captain and 26-year law enforcement veteran, would agree. Like the president, he thinks the problem goes far beyond just this poor reporting system.
"We used to have good mental health services here, but like with everything, when cities and states started to run out of money, we started to see more people who clearly need help on the streets," he said.
"When they took the money out of mental health, especially in a state where we like our guns, these people became our problem. I'd love to see that change, too."
That's a lot of words, but again -- I can't find any instance of Lanza's mental state's being adjudicated. So there wouldn't have been any data to send to NICS.
I already said this yesterday.
That may be a lot of words, but you'll be online all day, I'm sure you'll have time to read them.
Nope. Hitting what's left of the lake. Why are you letting your personal feelings get in the way of the discussion?
Again, I'm just using Lanza as a case study. I can't see anything he had done to get his mental state into the legal and background check system.
If that is indeed the case, what could be done to stop him from getting a gun?
No personal feelings, just an educated guess.
Nothing really, if someone is determined to kill they'll find a way. His mom just shouldn't have made it so easy. And no reason to respond from your phone on your inner-tube, enjoy the lake.Again, I'm just using Lanza as a case study. I can't see anything he had done to get his mental state into the legal and background check system.
If that is indeed the case, what could be done to stop him from getting a gun?
Uneducated and wrong, turns out.
Who says she didn't lock things up?Nothing really, if someone is determined to kill they'll find a way. His mom just shouldn't have made it so easy.Getting personal again.And no reason to respond from your phone on your inner-tube, enjoy the lake.
Can't help yourself.
Educated based on your posting history, but yes wrong.
Most every single article.Who says she didn't lock things up?
Lighten up, enjoy the lakeGetting personal again.
Can't help yourself.
Could you link one I can read later? All the ones I read say it was undetermined. I could've missed an update.
Haven't seen any confirmation either as all articles are just speculating they either weren't locked or she'd given him a key or pass code. Here's an article with Nancy's friend saying she just kept them in a closet.
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/nation...icle-1.1243602
safe or not I believe he had easy access
Add another to the list:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/sou...ing/index.html
God bless America
frost teens are some of the most dangerous children on this planet...the biggest divas and attention s too. the kid kills his dad, okay fine, but he doesn't stop there. he decides to take his ass on to a school and up other peoples lives as well.
Maybe those ragheads are right, we are all ed up in America with all our freedoms.
thinking they hate us "for our freedoms"
They were white people though so it's alright because it's all white.
Normal white folk as myself are ashamed of our race though.....for what it's worth anyway.
What race would that be?
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