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all in all I did like Jean Charles play last night... I was quite impressed in fact, I thought he would be lost out there but he was not, contributed, showed energy and stuff...
I feel better about LJC than I do about Garbino
all in all I did like Jean Charles play last night... I was quite impressed in fact, I thought he would be lost out there but he was not, contributed, showed energy and stuff...
Dedmon started the game with some solid, solid screens and I thought for a moment: hey... this might work out, but as the game progressed he just looked worse and worse and he even stopped setting decent screens, much less very good ones. Really, I hoped he would have been at least active on the boards.
LJC is going to impress everyone, book it!
You guys sure have a lot of roster projections after just 1 preseason game lol.
Personally I wasn't too impressed with Dedmon. Hope he shows more otherwise seems like a bad investment. Fell asleep before I got to see LJC. Maybe there is some hope for him if he can develop a jumper and raise his basketball IQ.
You guys seem to have Murray destined for the dleague. Well thats how its been for all our first round prospects. I dont think he will be relegated to the dleague. I think he will get pull double duty between the two. If he proves to show faster development, I can see him get minutes later in the season.
Murray has the goods. He might be one of the first to spend a majority of his time in SA. He isn't going to be ROY or anything but I think we got another gem with that kid.
He definitely deserved more minutes to show what he could do. It's an indisputable fact that Pop doesn't like him, so maybe that's why he got so few minutes.
??? I hadn't heard about this.
not everybody can be coddled like Simmons tbh
No, some have to be punching bags like Anderson. It's like that book The Whipping Boy with those two.
Not only is it not a fact, but I don't actually believe that. I do think that Pop didn't consider him to be in the plans for this season. He played bit minutes as if he were one of the Toros cuts, but I think he deserves more time and time with Pau/LMA as a designated defender. Would have an interesting assignment in Millsap
I don't think Pop doesn't like him, more likely Pop doesn't know who he is!
I don't think Pop doesn't like him, more likely Pop doesn't know who he is!
Pop, he's that skinny French dude at the end of the bench!
For those of you who missed the game, the replay is available in the suns websiteé
Thanks, much appreciated.
Nothing to hear; more made up .
I'm not jumping the gun on Dedmon, but I did warn against presuming he's a stone cold lock for 3rd big. He has to prove himself the same way everyone outside of the top 7 has to.
Ok I watched the full game and I got motivated to write some notes.
Observations first half:
All perimeter players ran PnR all the first half: Kawhi, Murray, Simmons, Kyle, Lapro.
Kawhi was excellent on PnR, finishing himself or dishing to Lee.
Murray showed talent in the PnR, he's fast and can find the big man. IMO he showed a lot of talent, it's just raw and his shot selection leaves much to improve upon still, but he can get where he wants and he can find open people when he wants to. I saw some moments where he was lost on defense big time and ended up getting screened or lost off the ball, definite rook mistakes.
Simmons wasn't impressive on the PnR, his characteristic athletic finishes didn't show up in this game. He didn't find lanes to shoot and got into trouble a couple of times ending in TO.
Kyle's passes were kicked so nothing came out of his PnR attempts.
Lapro played really well and I really liked him running the offense, but he played with Kawhi all of his minutes, with Kawhi off the ball opening things up. Regardless,I was overall really satisfied by him. He looked polished and he's my early pick to come out of training camp and make the team (followed closely by Garino).
For the bigs, none of them that played in the first half can shoot. It made it so that passes were easy to be deflected or kicked or knocked out and it is one of the reasons some PnR attempts ended in trouble for players with all sorts of deflections, or guys getting stuck in traffic making passes that ended up in TO. The spacing wasn't ideal and it's going to be an issue if Pop plays two non shooting bigs.
Lee displayed his skill around the basket and made some nice interior passes, but he also TO the ball trying to make those passes and he didn't take a single midrange shot.
Dedmon couldn't handle any interior passing from Lee. Maybe chemistry can develop for them, but it could be an issue down the road. From what I could see, big to big interior passing was one of the ways for Pop to deal with the two non-shooting bigs. First game of the season, so really nothing much to say about this experiment, except that I observed it and it may be something to keep an eye on.
Arci, Forbes, LJC, Bertans, Anthony, didn't play much in the first half, but the second half was their affair.
Second half:
This is where we saw a lot of Arci, LJC, Bertans, Anthony, Forbes with just a little bit of Kawhi, Simmons, Kyle, then Murray mixed and finally none of them to leave the others finish in the 4th Q.
Observations. Forbes was off shooting in this game and that is really his best NBA skill. The 3rd Q started with him defending Booker and Booker drew fouls and attacked Forbes incessantly. Suns smelled opportunities as Booker is too big and strong for Forbes to guard and they went at him constantly on post ups. (I have to note Booker had been guarded by Simmons, Kawhi and Garino in the first half and had been relatively under control.)
The second half started Anthony and Bertans and the rim protection was bad. Anthony is slow to rotate, and Bertans switched but he can't contain dribble penetration, he fouled a guard attempting to hedge and he simply struggled defensively. It was with that group on (Anthony, Bertans, Kawhi, Forbes and Arci) that the suns made a run and got into the game very quickly.
After Kawhi/Bertans/Anthony sat, we got a pairing for Simmons/Kyle/Dedmon. This part of the game saw traveling from Simmons (TO), a couple of moving screen by Dedmon (O/Fouls and TO), reaching in fouls from Forbes, Simmons getting beat on a backdoor cut, more fouling from Dedmon, and as you can see, the game was swinging the Suns way.
Kyle was used as a playmaker like Boris screening and he showed versatility in attempting the 3, but he also drove on mismatches when the other team switched on picks and he scored or drew fouls. Arci struggled against Brandon Knight on both ends, but we would have guessed that. Team was in the penalty early anyways, and this group except Anderson could not stop fouling guys left and right.
Garino and Murray subbed in for Arci and Forbes to close the 3rd, and Garino had some nice defensive plays drawing charges and boxing out guys going for O Boards. Murray is a definite talent but he's not seen a shot he doesn't like, and this half saw him chucking some bad shots. Dedmon missed a wide open layup from a dish by J.Simms which was unbelievable bc the rim protector wasn't nearby. He could have gone for the dunk, but didn't and really I don't know how that guy missed that.
Kyle was the last one of the rotation players to sit, once he sat the game got really loose and they didn't run a set offense well. There wasn't enough screening, etc.
Not much to say on LJC, he fouled too often too and will get on Pop's dog house that way, but if he improves through the season it would be huge for depth bc the team is lacking in bigs with defensive upside.
Conclusion:
Overall interesting game to see from everyone. I wasn't particularly impressed with anybody trying to make the team except Lapro, who was very good to start the game, and Garino who showed his defensive upside right away. Arci made some clutch plays (not just the 3, but some passes to set up Anthony for shots at the rim), but I still like Lapro more, who just looked really poised and played well in the first half.
I think Forbes had to show more, he was bad defensively on Booker (a huge and difficult mismatch for him) and he didn't make up for it offensively. A lot has been said in others' reviews about players specifically so I will just cut it here bc already this is too long.I like to pay attention to what Pop has guys doing as much as I look at guys individually and what motivated the review was the observation of the amount of PnR every perimeter player was running. We didn't see Kawhi post up for example, that wasn't what they were working on in this game.
Nice writeup, SAGirl. If I were PATFO, I'd keep Garino over Laps just for his defense. Chip can teach shooting but good defensive instincts are harder to come by.
Either way, I hope one of the Argies makes the team. Don't know why, just feels right.
I definitely liked him. TBH, I was really underwhelmed by J.Simms. I almost didn't want to say anything bad about him, but in that 3rd Q every time he touched the ball it was awful, just awful, it was either a TO, or some bad play. I don't think Garino can give what J.Simms is supposed to be bringing to the table offensively but one could see right away Garino is better defensively and more of a shooter than J.Simms (not that Garino is a great shooter, but he's a willing shooter, and probably will get better, whereas J.Simms passes up perimeter shots to drive.) I think Pop really likes J.Simms though (there is that controversial chat we have had with Chinook and others about how Pop is constantly encouraging of him, and gives him praise that sometimes .. ehhhh will just stop here bc ppl will think I have something against him and I do not). Bottom line, Pop likes him and that is all that matters, I think he will get many chances, but if he does eventually put the nail on his own coffin, I think they dial Garino's agent's number right up.
If Pop feels like he can deal with Murray and give him the tough love and Murray is strong enough for it, maybe Pop risks just having 3 PG (one being the rook Murray) and picks up Garino. Seeing Lapro start though told me how he ranks in Pop's priority list. He played really well. Still this is just the one game, there will be more and this can swing I am guessing.
For early drops, wow I would have to say Forbes or Arci. Arci bc intangibles aside, Lapro has him beat, Forbes bc he needs to be Patty Mills/Gary Neal out there to stick with his defensive struggles. I really didn't like Anthony at all, and despite Dedmon struggling so much I hope he and LJC pull it together and the team doesn't pick Anthony.
Last edited by SAGirl; 10-04-2016 at 10:44 PM.
You're confusing Pop with Jim Boylen, who isn't in the staff anymore.
I don't know how many of you had watched Laprovittola before last night, but he's a tough bas . I was excited when they said that he was coming, because he plays with an at ude like a little bulldog. He's not afraid to stick his chin in and scrap with bigger guys, and the Spurs could use some of that toughness and edginess. I wasn't impressed with his first outing, but one pre-season game isn't enough to convince me that he doesn't have the game to play in the NBA. I still think that, given the Spurs' need for a third PG, he has a good shot at sticking.
Garino showed some toughness, too, and I'm sure that wasn't lost on Pop. He's heavier and stronger than Simmons. He's not going to give the kind of air show as Simmons, but he probably fits Pop's mold for a player more than Simmons. I fully expect to see at least two Argentines on the roster.
Arci seems like a good kid, and we always pull for an underdog. But unless he was just nervous last night, NBA defenders are just going to pick his pocket right and left. The Spurs liked him enough to give him some money, but I think he spends the year in Austin.
Dedmon has enough of an NBA track record that we know he's better than he looked last night. If he had played like that last season, the Spurs wouldn't have signed him this year. And I don't think he got worse over the offseason.
LJC is listed at the same height as Kyle Anderson, but he's 15 pounds lighter. And one of the issues for Kyle is that he needs to put on some muscle - so LJC really looks skinny out there. Regardless of what skills or intangibles LJC has, I just don't see how his light frame is going to stand up to the big bodies in the NBA. I definitely thought he looked better last night than he did in summer league, but it would be hard not to. At the very least, I think he needs to spend a year in Austin, and working with a strength coach. Maybe bring him up a few times, when Pop is resting guys. I agree that he's better than summer league, but I still think he's too lightweight for a 4, and doesn't have the skillset of a 3.
Murray has a lot of talent and athleticism, and a lot of rough edges. And he shoots too much. CoJo embraced the D-League when he was a rookie, and even asked to be sent down so that he could get the experience, instead of spending a lot of time on the Spurs' bench. Pop commended him for it, and said that it made him a much better player. I think Murray would do well to follow that example.
Simmons did not look confident on the floor. That was one thing I never saw him lack, last season. The next few weeks are probably do or die for him. He's got to play with the swag he showed last year. I'm sure it didn't help him being without a good playmaker on the floor with him. I think he's got to show some improvement from last season, or he's probably out. He didn't show any in the first game. But if he does get cut, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else puts him on their bench, and every time he dunks a ball people here will scream about how we should have kept him.
Nice!!! Thanks for the reviews guys!!Ok I watched the full game and I got motivated to write some notes.
Observations first half:
All perimeter players ran PnR all the first half: Kawhi, Murray, Simmons, Kyle, Lapro.
Kawhi was excellent on PnR, finishing himself or dishing to Lee.
Murray showed talent in the PnR, he's fast and can find the big man. IMO he showed a lot of talent, it's just raw and his shot selection leaves much to improve upon still, but he can get where he wants and he can find open people when he wants to. I saw some moments where he was lost on defense big time and ended up getting screened or lost off the ball, definite rook mistakes.
Simmons wasn't impressive on the PnR, his characteristic athletic finishes didn't show up in this game. He didn't find lanes to shoot and got into trouble a couple of times ending in TO.
Kyle's passes were kicked so nothing came out of his PnR attempts.
Lapro played really well and I really liked him running the offense, but he played with Kawhi all of his minutes, with Kawhi off the ball opening things up. Regardless,I was overall really satisfied by him. He looked polished and he's my early pick to come out of training camp and make the team (followed closely by Garino).
For the bigs, none of them that played in the first half can shoot. It made it so that passes were easy to be deflected or kicked or knocked out and it is one of the reasons some PnR attempts ended in trouble for players with all sorts of deflections, or guys getting stuck in traffic making passes that ended up in TO. The spacing wasn't ideal and it's going to be an issue if Pop plays two non shooting bigs.
Lee displayed his skill around the basket and made some nice interior passes, but he also TO the ball trying to make those passes and he didn't take a single midrange shot.
Dedmon couldn't handle any interior passing from Lee. Maybe chemistry can develop for them, but it could be an issue down the road. From what I could see, big to big interior passing was one of the ways for Pop to deal with the two non-shooting bigs. First game of the season, so really nothing much to say about this experiment, except that I observed it and it may be something to keep an eye on.
Arci, Forbes, LJC, Bertans, Anthony, didn't play much in the first half, but the second half was their affair.
Second half:
This is where we saw a lot of Arci, LJC, Bertans, Anthony, Forbes with just a little bit of Kawhi, Simmons, Kyle, then Murray mixed and finally none of them to leave the others finish in the 4th Q.
Observations. Forbes was off shooting in this game and that is really his best NBA skill. The 3rd Q started with him defending Booker and Booker drew fouls and attacked Forbes incessantly. Suns smelled opportunities as Booker is too big and strong for Forbes to guard and they went at him constantly on post ups. (I have to note Booker had been guarded by Simmons, Kawhi and Garino in the first half and had been relatively under control.)
The second half started Anthony and Bertans and the rim protection was bad. Anthony is slow to rotate, and Bertans switched but he can't contain dribble penetration, he fouled a guard attempting to hedge and he simply struggled defensively. It was with that group on (Anthony, Bertans, Kawhi, Forbes and Arci) that the suns made a run and got into the game very quickly.
After Kawhi/Bertans/Anthony sat, we got a pairing for Simmons/Kyle/Dedmon. This part of the game saw traveling from Simmons (TO), a couple of moving screen by Dedmon (O/Fouls and TO), reaching in fouls from Forbes, Simmons getting beat on a backdoor cut, more fouling from Dedmon, and as you can see, the game was swinging the Suns way.
Kyle was used as a playmaker like Boris screening and he showed versatility in attempting the 3, but he also drove on mismatches when the other team switched on picks and he scored or drew fouls. Arci struggled against Brandon Knight on both ends, but we would have guessed that. Team was in the penalty early anyways, and this group except Anderson could not stop fouling guys left and right.
Garino and Murray subbed in for Arci and Forbes to close the 3rd, and Garino had some nice defensive plays drawing charges and boxing out guys going for O Boards. Murray is a definite talent but he's not seen a shot he doesn't like, and this half saw him chucking some bad shots. Dedmon missed a wide open layup from a dish by J.Simms which was unbelievable bc the rim protector wasn't nearby. He could have gone for the dunk, but didn't and really I don't know how that guy missed that.
Kyle was the last one of the rotation players to sit, once he sat the game got really loose and they didn't run a set offense well. There wasn't enough screening, etc.
Not much to say on LJC, he fouled too often too and will get on Pop's dog house that way, but if he improves through the season it would be huge for depth bc the team is lacking in bigs with defensive upside.
Conclusion:
Overall interesting game to see from everyone. I wasn't particularly impressed with anybody trying to make the team except Lapro, who was very good to start the game, and Garino who showed his defensive upside right away. Arci made some clutch plays (not just the 3, but some passes to set up Anthony for shots at the rim), but I still like Lapro more, who just looked really poised and played well in the first half.
I think Forbes had to show more, he was bad defensively on Booker (a huge and difficult mismatch for him) and he didn't make up for it offensively. A lot has been said in others' reviews about players specifically so I will just cut it here bc already this is too long.
Agree with you that the coaching staff are trying to work in some specific areas of players' games.
Paul Garcia from Project Spurs said that Kawhi running the P&R was an element he added to his game this summer, he also noticed that the Spurs took 25 3's against the Suns...If we know that Pop asked LMA to work in his three-point shooting again, it seems like some things are gonna change on offense...
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