Manu for $14 million

[Chinook]

Here's why I commented. Your response to TGY, intended or not, implies that Boban plus Manu for the RE was an option that was just as available to the Spurs as Manu using Bird Rights plus Dedmon for the RE. As you've now clarified, Manu for the RE was never an available option. TGY, however, has run with your answer as support for his absurd notion.

Well his notion is that Manu is paid too much, which is at the very least debateable. He probably did have a misconception that every dollar less Manu got would be a dollar available to Boban. As we've both discussed, that's not true. But if he believes Manu is only worth the room exception -- and believes the reports that the Spurs were initially pushing him to take that amount -- then he can argue that Manu being overpaid did in fact cost the team Boban.

Boban rolling in his grave right now....

The reality is that there was probably some cap manipulation going on. I suggested as much last season as far as what the options on Manu's and Tim's contracts meant. The report about the Sixers causing the Spurs to increase their offer by $11 Million seems absurd. My assumption is that he was probably in line for a substantial raise and that the Spurs used the report about Philly to their advantage. No I don't believe Manu at the RE was an option, but the reports out there in the summer certainly suggested that it was.

[I. Hustle]

How do you think a 39 year old Ginobili, who for the upteenth year in a row is going to be asked to carry a bench full of scrubs while trying to make them look halfway decent, will stand up to an 82 game season? Last two postseasons, he was benched during crunch time as he watched the "Ginobili's scrub all-stars" completely the bed without him.

Btw, Boban is hardly an athlete. He's just a guy that shoots over the top of defenders, grabs rebounds and blocks shots from a standing position because he towers over his compe ion. I'm not sure why you think that part of his game is going to breakdown in the next three years. Btw, have you seen Deadman play? I hope to god he's covering up an injury because that was one of the saddest 2 rebound, 6 fouls in 22 minute performances I've ever seen. He'd better be a lot better going forward because the Spurs are counting on him to be a rotation player.

Yeah let's give up a guy that has a ton of experience in our system and is able to mentor, not just the bench but, others at his position for a guy that can shoot over other team's 3rd and 4th stringers.

You do realize that, given heavy minutes, Boban is going to have to fight for position against better players, right? You think they are just going to allow him to stand there without bumping him and making him work? That works against Jimmy Chinabound but it won't against others.

[Mel_13]

Well his notion is that Manu is paid too much, which is at the very least debateable. He probably did have a misconception that every dollar less Manu got would be a dollar available to Boban. As we've both discussed, that's not true. But if he believes Manu is only worth the room exception -- and believes the reports that the Spurs were initially pushing him to take that amount -- then he can argue that Manu being overpaid did in fact cost the team Boban.

Well, you can argue anything. Good luck with the argument that paying Manu more than the RE was some sort of blunder by the FO.

[kaji157]

He didn't imply anything, he said it outright. The CBA math is absolutely correct, but it assumes that Manu would be willing to play for the RE, which is not a realistic assumption.

It is equally correct that the Spurs could have signed Gasol for his 15M and kept Manu using his Bird Rights, if we assume that Boban would have signed for the RE.

Finally, the Spurs could have matched Detroit's offer for Boban and kept Manu using his Bird Rights, if we assume that Gasol would have signed for 10M instead of 15M.

All of those scenarios require one professional basketbal player to sign for many millions of dollars less than was available to him on the open market. None of those scenarios were available to the Spurs.

Well that´s not realistic.
The correct question is.
Could the Spurs sign both boban and gasol at their respective contracts (as they were not going to give us cheap deals) if Manu signed for the RE?
I don´t think so, but you guys seem confident that if Manu took the RE then the Spurs would have been able to keep Pau and Boban at their respective contracts.

[Mel_13]

Well that´s not realistic.
The correct question is.
Could the Spurs sign both boban and gasol at their respective contracts (as they were not going to give us cheap deals) if Manu signed for the RE?
I don´t think so, but you guys seem confident that if Manu took the RE then the Spurs would have been able to keep Pau and Boban at their respective contracts.

Both Chinook and I have already answered that question in the affirmative, including in the post you just quoted. IF Manu was willing to sign for RE, then the Spurs could have signed Gasol and Boban for the deals they eventually signed. There is, however, absolutely no reason to believe that Manu would sign such a cheap deal, to use your term.

[kaji157]

Both Chinook and I have already answered that question in the affirmative, including in the post you just quoted. IF Manu was willing to sign for RE, then the Spurs could have signed Gasol and Boban for the deals they eventually signed. There is, however, absolutely no reason to believe that Manu would sign such a cheap deal, to use your term.

Ok, i just thought Manu´s hold was smaller than Boban´s first year.

[Mel_13]

Ok, i just thought Manu´s hold was smaller than Boban´s first year.

They were almost exactly equal. See post #345 where Chinook gave you the numbers in answer to one of your previous posts.

[Chinook]

Ok, i just thought Manu´s hold was smaller than Boban´s first year.

Yeah, don't forget that Boban's first year is like $5.6 Million because of the Arenas rule. The Spurs had enough cap space to where it would've been feasible financially.

[SAGirl]

Thanks for this discussion. It's the kind that is seldom seen around here. It cleared up the issue.

Everyone's opinions about the facts are personal and debatable, but the facts are clear and interesting in themselves.

[kaji157]

Yeah, don't forget that Boban's first year is like $5.6 Million because of the Arenas rule. The Spurs had enough cap space to where it would've been feasible financially.

Thnx both you and Mel

[ElNono]

Actually, IIRC, the decision to basically part ways with Boban happened the instant the Spurs decided to sign Dedmon with the RE... which was quite a bit before the announcement of the Manu deal.

[diego]

iirc manu was the last player to sign out of everyone, but its his fault boban left :roll

i liked boban, i wish pop would have used him more, but at the same time, the fact that he didnt kind of renders it all moot anyway. the very first game of the season last year, vs okc, just about everyone on this board started worrying about the west / diaw rebounding issues, and that was basically how okc beat us last year, and despite there being a need in the team for precisely what he supposedly brings (size, rebounding, easy baskets) he failed to earn the role. he had stretches in the RS where he performed very well but it was seldom vs a quality opponent, and more a reflection of how bad interior play is league wide. it will be interesting to see how he fares in detroit.

[BillMc]

A lot of people in the league understand what Manu brings to the floor, and to the locker room. But few understand it better than Brett Brown. And I'm sure he didn't have to work too hard to convince Bryan Colangelo that it would be worth throwing some money at a chance to bring Manu in to be an example for the young players on that team. He's a compe or, and he still goes all-out. Those guys have never seen anything like that in a Sixers uniform. I don't think there was any attempt to screw the Spurs. I think that the Sixers had cap space, and Brown legitimately wanted to use a chunk of it to bring Manu in.

And from what we heard, even if the Sixers hadn't offered what they did, there were still other teams that were offering him a LOT more than the room exception. No matter what people here thought, signing him that cheap was never going to happen. Remember, a lot of people here (like most of them) thought the Spurs could legitimately afford Conley, and/or several other players who got grossly overpaid. The e in the cap put a lot of money into the pool, and it gave Manu a shot at a huge payday. I can't fault him for getting it. Those other teams came looking for him.

Well said.

[SAGirl]

[TheGreatYacht]

.... unless they didn't pay 14,000,000

[ElNono]

Philadelphia was offering a two-year contract offer that guaranteed in the first season (between $16 million and $17 million)

damn, this guy leaving money on the table to play for the Spurs again

[SAGirl]

Seems like Philly wanted Manu to mentor Stauskas.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nba/post/_/...p-nik-stauskas

[HarlemHeat37]

It would have been fun to watch Manu with Embiid, Noel and the others, tbh..fortunately, he left $ on the table to remain with the Spurs, wouldn't want to see him in a different uniform..

[illusioNtEk]

How ing more legendary can Manu get? you fans who wanted to let Manu walk.

[Spurs9]

How ing more legendary can Manu get? you fans who wanted to let Manu walk.

'we needed him for the heb commercials'

[kaji157]

Seems like Philly wanted Manu to mentor Stauskas.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nba/post/_/...p-nik-stauskas

Here´s the complete article.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/p...skas-game.html

[apalisoc_9]

Actually, IIRC, the decision to basically part ways with Boban happened the instant the Spurs decided to sign Dedmon with the RE... which was quite a bit before the announcement of the Manu deal.

Yup.

Second best spur ever.

[TheGreatYacht]

TOSB is shooting 35% from the floor and from three.

TOSB is averaging 2.2apg and 1.8TO

TOSB has 0.0 Win Shares and a -1.5BPM

TOSB is earning $14,000,000

[gambit1990]

TOSB is shooting 35% from the floor and from three.

manu's fg% is higher than parker's.

TOSB is averaging 2.2apg and 1.8TO

manu and parker's TOV% are both 18.6.

TOSB has 0.0 Win Shares and a -1.5BPM

	WS	WS/48	OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
manu	0.0	.010	-1.6	0.1	-1.5	0.0
tony	0.0	-.002	-3.4	-1.9	-5.2	-0.1

manu's PER is twice as high, manu's TS% is also higher.

TOSB is earning $14,000,000

tony making more and playing worse
tony making even more next season

[TheGreatYacht]

^ Parker living rent free in Argie 's head tbh

Cant wait till the Internet goes out in your third world country