OT: LOL Lebron,"I'm standing for the anthem"

[Kidd K]

There's nothing false or disingenuous about it. I don't know nor care what's your beef with BLM, but police brutality doesn't start nor end with them, much like racism doesn't start nor ends with the KKK, or gay talk doesn't start or ends with Adam Silver, etc.

You can absolutely have a conversation about police brutality without bringing up different stuff like BLM, black on black crime, etc. When you do that, what it really means is that you don't want to talk about it, period. There no need to make excuses.

And yet now Kapernick is getting for doing exactly what I said was ing stupid about BLM. . .vilifying Hillary as if she does nothing and is as bad as Trump (I assume because she isn't black since it has NOTHING to do with what she does or says). Just more bull "blame whitey" mentality, proving just what BLM is really about yet again.

I didn't say anything was "false".

BLM isn't about police brutality, it's about how they are with blacks only. If it was only about police brutality, like I said, I would have no problem with convo. But it isn't. Just like it's not just about black murders which as I said would be reasonable since it would, you know, actually include the other 99% of black killings. But to paint police as some massive source of black deaths when they kill eachother more than 10x as much as every other source combined. . .while constantly race baiting with the movement? Yeah you can off and you're the one who doesn't want to actually have a conversation about black killings. You just want to about police treatment of blacks and play victim.

Tip: Show police respect when you get pulled over and don't act aggressive and be nice then marvel at how much better encounters with them go. ing about them while still acting like assholes to them isn't gonna change . Just like ing about them won't stop blacks from killing eachother 14x as much as every other source combined.

[DMC]

I don't like most cops either. I just know that their power collectively beats anything I can muster up and it's not worth it to me to offer some false front of resistance as if I cannot be beaten into complying or just shot. In almost every instance where these shooting occur, there's a person simply not complying and challenging the cops to do something about it. There's the reaching for something, the sudden movements, the lunges toward the officers, all of this appears to be part of a mentality of "you can't tell me what to do". I guarantee you whites do it just as often and get shot just as often, they just don't get any press over it because other whites think they probably deserved it. There's no false front of solidarity between whites. With blacks, there's always that false brotherhood thing but they individually know that they cannot trust the other person just because he's black. Why blacks act like other blacks give two s about them is beyond me, because when hits the fan you can see it's a free for all and it's all about getting something for nothing, you, get mine. It's like you're dealing with an entire society of crackheads. What really sucks about it is that there are a good number of blacks who have nothing to do with it but get caught up in the conversation because there's some tug or social pressure to join the cause, and even if they don't the surface appearance is that they probably have.

It comes down to training. When does a cop need to draw a weapon? A cop could be in a position many times a week where they could be shot. A civilian might never encounter that situation, ever. When the belligerent perp has a encounter with a cop and then tries to challenge the person who has already drawn a weapon on them, they are just telling the cop "this is it" because the cop knows one day, during one stop, there will be that moment when they have to shoot. They train for when to shoot. They watch videos of cops who didn't shoot in time who died. No one riots over that. Why anyone would want to be a cop is beyond me as well, it must have something to do with insecurity as a teen.

[djohn2oo8]

BLM isn't about police brutality, it's about how they are with blacks only. If it was only about police brutality, like I said, I would have no problem with convo. But it isn't.

Because Black lives matter the least to cops. Dip .

[DMC]

Because Black lives matter the least to cops. Dip .

That's stupid. When you visit another country where you know they are hoping you up, do you get belligerent with officers every chance you get? Do you go to the airport and challenge the TSA to a fight? If blacks truly thought cops wanted to shoot them they'd act like it. Pretending your vaping device is a gun while two officers have drawn down on you doesn't seem like something someone who feels intimidated would do. Folks act like cops see from all angles and can rewind, pause and examine each situation in order to make a snap decision. You know they can't, so why act like an idiot? You don't need to suck their s but come on, all this I'm seeing is just crackhead and the noise coming from idiots like you makes it even more comical.

Also, if blacks kill each other at the highest rate, then black lives matter least to other blacks. Being a cop doesn't automatically make you racist. Seeing 80% of the aggressive perps being black, that can cause you to profile however. Maybe if blacks have such solidarity they can police themselves? Stop calling the cops on your brothers.

Front page of Chicago Sun Times:

Man wounded in Southwest Side drive-by shooting

An 18-year-old man was wounded in a drive-by shooting Sunday morning in the Gage Park neighborhood on the Southwest Side.

Must have been cops driving by. Since the race isn't mentioned you know it's a black man shooting another black man. There's the injustice.. the omission of the racial makeup of the perp and victim in these black on black crimes.

Then there's this:

Reports: Markham cop fatally shoots man outside nightclub

Again, race not mentioned. Guy was shooting into crowd and approached officers with a gun. He was shot. If he's black it will be all over the news. If he's white it will be dropped like a toilet seat.

[phyzik]

Because Black lives matter the least to cops. Dip .

And here it is... the complete false narrative BLM wants you to think....

Cops out to get the black man...

Bull and the numbers say otherwise.

[phyzik]

So there have obviously been instances where police have been way too trigger happy and they killed innocent black people who did nothing to provoke them to do so... But of those ~250 incidents (#Idindonufin) roughly about %5 of those actually fit into the category of innocent... roughly about 13 to 15 wrongfully killed black people in a year. But 2500 black people killed by other black people is not the issue... Dont bring up the black on black crime!! That's not relevant!!!

I dont know what more to say if you think cops are targeting black people when the FACTS and STATISTICS say otherwise... It just doesn't make sense.

[Chinook]

So there have obviously been instances where police have been way too trigger happy and they killed innocent black people who did nothing to provoke them to do so... But of those ~250 incidents (#Idindonufin) roughly about %5 of those actually fit into the category of innocent... roughly about 13 to 15 wrongfully killed black people in a year. But 2500 black people killed by other black people is not the issue... Dont bring up the black on black crime!! That's not relevant!!!

I'm sure more black people die from diabetes than die from any sort of murder, so why are we even bringing up black-on-black crime? And , shouldn't we do something about this whole mortality thing while we're at it? We're all going to die from something if we don't figure out how to put our brains in machines. Gotta nip that in the bud first.

I dont know what more to say if you think cops are targeting black people when the FACTS and STATISTICS say otherwise... It just doesn't make sense.

I totally do appreciate you bringing stats into this thread, as I think it helps contextualize the problem. But those stats didn't say much about how many innocent black people are killed in comparison to whites or the potential that black people are far more likely to be stopped by police than white people. If black people who are not violence risks are stopped proportionately more than their white counterparts, then you are going to get a skewed proportion of cases where black people are NOT harmed. As I said, I don't think the vast majority of people -- cops included -- want to be murderers.

Let's just say that 2,000 white people are in a community with 500 black people. Of these people, 100 white people and 25 black people are violent (so this is assuming that there isn't an innate racial bias for criminals, which is contentious). The police approach 50 white people and 50 black people. For each race, five encounters end with the police killing the person they stopped (an unknown number are these may be non-violent). And whenever they come across a violent person whom they don't kill, they are killed themselves.

So your stats may or may not show a bias. After all, same number of whites and blacks were stopped and killed. And since you are stopping a higher percentage of black people (10 percent as opposed to 2.5 percent), you are more likely to encounter the violent black folk is higher, so you'll get more dead cops as well. All in all, this sample bears out your numbers.

But that ignores selection bias. It's not actually true that you would sample randomly from both populations. Police would obviously try to stop people who seem more su ious. It's not easy, but it's theoretically possible to pick 50 truly violent white people in this scenario. It's not possible to find 50 truly violent black people, as the population just isn't big enough. So you're going to have at least half of the black people stopped being innocent while you'll have fewer innocent white people. So assuming that those five deaths are actually random (and boy, it's starting to look like it some days), you'll get a larger percentage of black people who are killed even though there was never any reason to stop them in the first place.

[Chinook]

tl;dr The stats aren't nearly as cut-and-dried as you seem to believe they are.

[Chinook]

More directly:

1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black.

This is actually evidence of bias on behalf of cops against black people, not the other way around. According to the census bureau, there are six times as many white people in the US than there are black people. So black folks are being killed at three times a greater number than you'd expect if you assume randomly distributed sampling.

2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.

This is actually irrelevant to the discussion. If the top stat is to be believed, then death-by-police is definitely a significant issue for black people even if crime is a bigger issue.

3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man. The ratio is 7 to 1 for blacks vs 6 to 1 for whites.

Best evidence against there being bias in this post. That's not significant enough to suggest that blacks are killed more for no reason. However, it doesn't do anything to address the lack of really situational data. We don't know what the people were doing in this situation. Does unarmed mean they were just minding their own business, or where they punching out a cop? Or did they have something that looked like a weapon? Does a bb gun count as being armed? Are these answers consistent across all cases?

4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

Almost irrelevant. Police brutality doesn't have to be white-on-black for it to be an issue. I'd feel no better being gunned down by a black cop than a white one. But for the people who do think in these terms, that is a salient point.

5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. 40 percent of cop killers are black. A police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

True and feeds into the problem for sure. But I'd imagine that almost none of those are done by unarmed black people.

[Kidd K]

Because Black lives matter the least to cops. Dip .

Which is exactly how it should be when they commit the most violent crime and robberies per capita by a HUGGGGGGGGGE margin, kill the most cops per capita by a huge margin too, " the police" is ingrained in their culture (along with " whitey" in general), and they consistently act the least respectful when dealing with police.

Wanna not be shot by police? Not committing crime helps a lot. So does being respectful and passive if you do get caught doing something. But we both know neither of those things is going to decrease among blacks. Que BLM instead. Why take responsibility and change when you can blame whitey to try and hide the REAL problem of hostile black culture?

[Kidd K]

Just read some more stats:

Blacks are about 9x as likely to resist/evade arrest as whites.

Blacks are 27x more likely to attack a white man than the other way around.

Maybe half a % of black homicides are unarmed blacks being killed by police. 93% are being killed by other blacks.

[Brazil]

Chinook is black ?

[Chinook]

Chinook is black ?

Yeah. I always knew I was different. But it wasn't until college that I decided to be true to myself.

[Chinook]

Just read some more stats:

Blacks are about 9x as likely to resist/evade arrest as whites.

Blacks are 27x more likely to attack a white man than the other way around.

Maybe half a % of black homicides are unarmed blacks being killed by police. 93% are being killed by other blacks.

Gotta source those, man. They conflict with the previous stats.

[Brazil]

Yeah. I always knew I was different. But it wasn't until college that I decided to be true to myself.

[Kidd K]

Gotta source those, man. They conflict with the previous stats.

Sure man, hold up.

I got that from this site. It's a PDF so you'd have to open it.

https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/misc/alleged-police-bias-debunked.pdf


Edit: Looks like you'll have to copy/paste the link rather than click but that does work.


I would guess some stats conflict slightly due to time/areas stats were taken. Stats for human behavior are never static after all.

[DMC]

I'm sure more black people die from diabetes than die from any sort of murder, so why are we even bringing up black-on-black crime? And , shouldn't we do something about this whole mortality thing while we're at it? We're all going to die from something if we don't figure out how to put our brains in machines. Gotta nip that in the bud first.

Because the BLM is a disingenuous movement. The idea that cops are unjustifiably killing black men exclusively is fueled by the "first impression" concept. The first to tell the story is the winner, truth be damned, and in almost every instance of this we've seen on video the black man was resisting arrest or we simply didn't get the full story because of the narrative that media and other blacks want to push. Just like you did above, the fact that 90% of murdered black men were killed by other black men is simply swept aside in favor of the sensational albeit misguided headline narrative of the day.. blacks are the sole victims of racial prejudice and yet only when a white person or officer does the killing. If a black does it, hey, it's all in the family.. we handle our own. Sure you do, as my taxes feed another 100K black men incarcerated for robbing and killing store clerks.

So don't act like argument by absurdity is a legit one.

I totally do appreciate you bringing stats into this thread, as I think it helps contextualize the problem. But those stats didn't say much about how many innocent black people are killed in comparison to whites or the potential that black people are far more likely to be stopped by police than white people. If black people who are not violence risks are stopped proportionately more than their white counterparts, then you are going to get a skewed proportion of cases where black people are NOT harmed. As I said, I don't think the vast majority of people -- cops included -- want to be murderers.

Black men are far more likely to be shot by other black men as well. I guess that's profiling. It seems black men are more likely to be killed by almost anyone. They are killed more through self defense than any other race per capita, and 75% of those are by other black men. More profiling?
The black culture embraces lawlessness and shuns education. The part of black culture that embraces education is actually a subculture, and they are looked down on by the collective black community in large urban, predominately black areas. I get that it's hard being black and going against the pressure from peers and friends to fail, because failure in the white man's world actually means success to many blacks... sell crack, get paid, working... I ain't even American so you I'm walking down the middle of the street even if there's empty sidewalks on both sides because I'm dangerous.

Funny, that mentality is prevalent in large areas like Baltimore and Detroit, but when it leads to confrontation that escalates to shots fired (and blacks love to escalate a confrontation), suddenly there's an injustice because the black man wasn't allowed to commit crimes unmolested. They didn't have to shoot, even if he fired first. Ah but if another black man just walks up American Gangster style and blows his head off, that guy is a hero, a gangsta.. my idol.

Let's just say that 2,000 white people are in a community with 500 black people. Of these people, 100 white people and 25 black people are violent (so this is assuming that there isn't an innate racial bias for criminals, which is contentious). The police approach 50 white people and 50 black people. For each race, five encounters end with the police killing the person they stopped (an unknown number are these may be non-violent). And whenever they come across a violent person whom they don't kill, they are killed themselves.

Your numbers are bull . Blacks are by far more violent per capita than whites. The US has a large white majority and yet how many riots do you see from the white community? Is there even a white community? Only the minorities are allowed to segregate into race-proud cultures. Whites better not try else they are branded Nazis and racist.

So your stats may or may not show a bias. After all, same number of whites and blacks were stopped and killed. And since you are stopping a higher percentage of black people (10 percent as opposed to 2.5 percent), you are more likely to encounter the violent black folk is higher, so you'll get more dead cops as well. All in all, this sample bears out your numbers.

But that ignores selection bias. It's not actually true that you would sample randomly from both populations. Police would obviously try to stop people who seem more su ious. It's not easy, but it's theoretically possible to pick 50 truly violent white people in this scenario. It's not possible to find 50 truly violent black people, as the population just isn't big enough. So you're going to have at least half of the black people stopped being innocent while you'll have fewer innocent white people. So assuming that those five deaths are actually random (and boy, it's starting to look like it some days), you'll get a larger percentage of black people who are killed even though there was never any reason to stop them in the first place.

This all just ignores the fact that the black culture is one that encourages illegal activities. Kids raised on the street without a father figure turn to others who were raised the same way. Unless you think the incredible disproportionate prison racial makeup is solely due to profiling, you have to admit there's a culture difference. Closing ranks in your race is imprisoning young black men like North Korea and then they are indoctrinated in the ignorant ass hate propaganda called rap and given the sense of en lement that permeates the poorer black communities. On rare occasions someone rejects the brainwashing and seeks a better way and forces their children to do the same. They are often disavowed by the rest of the community, like a dissident who fled from PRNK.

Cut the bull .

[DMC]

Chinook is black ?

Welcome to the 20th century!

Chin and I have had many debates regarding this and other things. Being black is just a side note, has nothing to do with his argument since he usually argues from data based conclusions.

[Chinook]

Because the BLM is a disingenuous movement. The idea that cops are unjustifiably killing black men exclusively is fueled by the "first impression" concept. The first to tell the story is the winner, truth be damned, and in almost every instance of this we've seen on video the black man was resisting arrest or we simply didn't get the full story because of the narrative that media and other blacks want to push. Just like you did above, the fact that 90% of murdered black men were killed by other black men is simply swept aside in favor of the sensational albeit misguided headline narrative of the day.. blacks are the sole victims of racial prejudice and yet only when a white person or officer does the killing. If a black does it, hey, it's all in the family.. we handle our own. Sure you do, as my taxes feed another 100K black men incarcerated for robbing and killing store clerks.

So don't act like argument by absurdity is a legit one.

Nah, man. There's always been a difference between murder by private citizens and killings by the government. There's only so much you can do about the murders, especially with there being so much protest against gun control. Doesn't mean you can let the government get away with crimes. So what you're doing is trying to get all red-faced about people calling out the police because there's a "bigger problem". Well guess what? There are bigger problems all over the place. Gotta take care of the that should be easy to handle first.

Black men are far more likely to be shot by other black men as well. I guess that's profiling. It seems black men are more likely to be killed by almost anyone. They are killed more through self defense than any other race per capita, and 75% of those are by other black men. More profiling?

That's actually the opposite of profiling.

The black culture embraces lawlessness and shuns education. The part of black culture that embraces education is actually a subculture, and they are looked down on by the collective black community in large urban, predominately black areas. I get that it's hard being black and going against the pressure from peers and friends to fail, because failure in the white man's world actually means success to many blacks... sell crack, get paid, working... I ain't even American so you I'm walking down the middle of the street even if there's empty sidewalks on both sides because I'm dangerous.

Funny, that mentality is prevalent in large areas like Baltimore and Detroit, but when it leads to confrontation that escalates to shots fired (and blacks love to escalate a confrontation), suddenly there's an injustice because the black man wasn't allowed to commit crimes unmolested. They didn't have to shoot, even if he fired first. Ah but if another black man just walks up American Gangster style and blows his head off, that guy is a hero, a gangsta.. my idol.

So this is just a troll post, I take it. Did you confuse me with Trill?

Your numbers are bull . Blacks are by far more violent per capita than whites. The US has a large white majority and yet how many riots do you see from the white community? Is there even a white community? Only the minorities are allowed to segregate into race-proud cultures. Whites better not try else they are branded Nazis and racist.

sorry that white people got all their "rioting" out of their system in the 50s when they were lynching people. Nice to see that there was enough time to scrabble up onto that high horse. Wait, you've never been to a Klan rally? Well, I've never been to a BLM rally.

This all just ignores the fact that the black culture is one that encourages illegal activities. Kids raised on the street without a father figure turn to others who were raised the same way. Unless you think the incredible disproportionate prison racial makeup is solely due to profiling, you have to admit there's a culture difference. Closing ranks in your race is imprisoning young black men like North Korea and then they are indoctrinated in the ignorant ass hate propaganda called rap and given the sense of en lement that permeates the poorer black communities. On rare occasions someone rejects the brainwashing and seeks a better way and forces their children to do the same. They are often disavowed by the rest of the community, like a dissident who fled from PRNK.

Kim Jung Kanye FTW!

[Brazil]

Welcome to the 20th century!

Chin and I have had many debates regarding this and other things. Being black is just a side note, has nothing to do with his argument since he usually argues from data based conclusions.

First wtf does that mean welcome to the 20th century ?
Second I never said it was related with his argument. I just did not know thus my surprise

[Chinook]

First wtf does that mean welcome to the 20th century ?
Second I never said it was related with his argument. I just did not know thus my surprise

Half. Other half is why I can read Manu's articles without waiting for Nono's translation.

[Brazil]

Half. Other half is why I can read Manu's articles without waiting for Nono's translation.

[DMC]

First wtf does that mean welcome to the 20th century ?
Second I never said it was related with his argument. I just did not know thus my surprise

I just mean most here know Chinook is black.

[Brazil]

I just mean most here know Chinook is black.

well sorry I did not

[DMC]

Nah, man. There's always been a difference between murder by private citizens and killings by the government. There's only so much you can do about the murders, especially with there being so much protest against gun control. Doesn't mean you can let the government get away with crimes. So what you're doing is trying to get all red-faced about people calling out the police because there's a "bigger problem". Well guess what? There are bigger problems all over the place. Gotta take care of the that should be easy to handle first.

It's one thing to hold the government accountable. It's quite another to pretend blacks care about black lives when in reality it's just about police interactions caught on video. There are hundreds of thousands of police interactions that do not end up in a shooting, and many that very well could have. But the focus is on a small handful of video captures where snap-to-judgement is used and a narrative is created that employs confirmation bias and denies any subsequent truth that arises from more thorough investigation. These criminals are paraded around like heroes and put on tee shirts even after it's been shown by mostly unbiased third party investigations that the shooting was legal and that the perp was out of control. Mike Brown, just robbed a store and attacked a cop, tried to go for his gun then given ample opportunity to surrender decided to play head vs bullet. Homey in New Orleans was a convicted felon in possession of a firearm and had brandished it to someone who called it in. Then when confronted tried to grab it again, knowing the eventual outcome was a shooting as he had two handguns trained on him and one making physical contact with his body. I think some shooting are unwarranted, sure. I've said as much here. However the decadent mentality of black men against authority that we as taxpayers pay to police our neighborhoods is evident in almost all of these videos, and the situation escalates.

Given the fact that blacks feel cops are out to kill them, you'd think they would work harder to stay out off the books but obviously they don't. You'd also think once one has a gun on them they'd be scared less and just comply and the overwhelmingly large majority do, those who don't are raised up to the national spotlight as if they are martyrs. If the situation goes sideways for the cop because he's lenient and conservative with his use of force, it's back page material and no one riots.

That's actually the opposite of profiling.

It was sarcasm. Blacks cherry pick shootings to call profiling and ignore the bulk of the deaths when in reality the are mostly caused by the same things. You can dismiss the 90% with magical hand-wavium however dead is dead. Why you think a cop wants to ruin his life by shooting anyone is beyond me.

So this is just a troll post, I take it. Did you confuse me with Trill?

When I spit the truth you call it a troll post. You dismissed 90% of the murders of black men because they were done by other black men, and said no one can do anything about it. Isn't that the same helplessness you feel about police related shootings? So blacks can't do anything about them killing each other but they think they can create a separate class of citizen that gets free passes by law enforcement when they resist arrest and break laws because the cop is afraid he/she might have to use deadly force?
You do realize that's how you got here in the first place, right? You cannot get good police protection because of the closed ranks in your culture and the risk/reward aspect of policing that culture. The odds aren't good when a cop responds to a domestic disturbance in a predominately black area that the situation will not escalate. It seems the BLM push is to further remove the black population from any police interaction and let blacks kill each other since, after all, you cannot do anything about it so it's ok.

sorry that white people got all their "rioting" out of their system in the 50s when they were lynching people. Nice to see that there was enough time to scrabble up onto that high horse. Wait, you've never been to a Klan rally? Well, I've never been to a BLM rally.



Kim Jung Kanye FTW!

I laid your rhetoric to waste and you giggled your way around it.