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  1. #301
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    No LMA has always been a pf.
    I know that is the position he has mostly played (hence, the ). (However he did play significant minutes at C last season.) But sarcasm aside, my point is really about the fact that Pau (and, really LMA) is a hybrid - a point center. Unless the Spurs rarely play LMA and Pau together (which Pop won't do), then the team's only "true" center is a bust. That state of affairs will not take the team very far. Lee is tweener - a short big with no midrange game. If LMA, Pau and Lee are the Spurs' top 3 "bigs" regardless of the Program listing of position, then the team is in trouble.

  2. #302
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    Well, you are showing us there's always a way for you to get tier. I'll give you that.
    1) The Report:

    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...?f=2&t=1465870

    (Basically a recap of chatter from front-office guys during the summer league. Posting the entire Spurs section, but the last point is the most important.)



    2) Credibility

    Keith Smith is a basketball writer who is a Celtics mod on RealGM (Smitth731). He's basically all of the things you guys like about me and none of the things you guys don't like about me. He's the author of what is easily the most comprehensive spreadsheet out there for NBA salaries:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1562502222 Like Mark Deeks, he's not the quickest with the news, but he's the most accurate at least when it comes to salaries.

    He freely admits he's not a reporter, and if you know of him at all, it's possible that you do because he sort of "broke" a Griffin-to-Boston trade that hasn't happened yet. So right now, he's not on the tier right Woj in terms of dropping bombs. Still, this is Spurstalk, not a court of law.

    3) Veracity

    I believe Smith did hear the chatter. He has a good track record and does too much other good work for it to make sense for him to damage his credibility about a team/fanbase he probably don't care much about at all. But that's only part of the equation. Who was his source? The big possibility would be RC, since he was there and easily available and would obviously know what the team was thinking. But there were other Spurs' people there, including some FO guys probably and definitely the SL coaching staff. The latter group doesn't really seem to have much credibility, except for maybe Becky. Then there could be their players, but I consider that completely unlikely. Regardless of who said it, I have a hard time believing it. They didn't even know they were going to get Dedmon (although by the time whoever talked to Smith, they did, obviously), I don't think they'd be crazy enough to plan on starting Willie Reed, and he was the runner up.

    4) Implications

    Like OMG. It's strange to think Pau would be okay with this. But if it were something the Spurs would say during the SL, then you'd have to think they talked to him about it prior to signing him. Whether it works out that Pau comes off the bench or not, it sure does suggest that he's not obsessed with starting. But it does make sense. Off the bench, the Spurs are looking to play one-in-four-out, so he'd probably get a sh'ton of low-post touches he wouldn't necessarily be able to have with the starters. I'd probably be hurt defensively, however, playing without at least one of Green or Kawhi a lot of the time.

    For the bench, it would change my projection of their offense. I'd actually expect it to be closer to how the starters roll, with Anderson playing the Kawhi role on offense and Pau playing the LMA role. I don't know how much I would like that. Manu would just sort of be there, like Parker is with the starters. Mills should be fine. And Bertans/Simmons would probably get touches. But I don't think there's a consistent plan of attack with that unit. Just seems like a lot of iso's and jump-shooting. Should help stave off worry about the bench not having talent or go-to offense, though.

    For the starters, it sort of allows them to keep their offense from last year. Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively, but if he can board and finish, he should be able to be more effective than Tim was at the end. Parker gets another PnR partner, which might help him drive more easily. Green gets a dump-off man on his ill-fated drives. For the folks wanting that big roll-man/finisher, you'd be getting your wish. Defensively, the idea of funneling to Dedmon seems interesting. Dude's a talented shot-blocker, and you'd hope Danny and Kawhi would put him in easy-help positions. He can show on the PnR and recover, so that's an improvement over Duncan. But he's also a foul-machine, at least for a potential starter. Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.

    For Dedmon, I think this would hurt him. The SL won't have the spacing the bench was projected to. I think he's getting third-big minutes no matter where he is in the rotation, so instead of being a pillar of offensive ball-movement as he would be off the bench, he would be the fifth option that'd really only get touches if the third option can't find a way to score. He'd have to live as a garbage man, which is cool, but not as glamorous. Could still end up closing out games if he plays his role well enough, though.

  3. #303
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    your possible solution for the spurs is the back up center for a 6th seed.

    you're wrong way more often than not. really glad you're not the gm.
    You do realize that Dallas didn't have him the whole year, right?

  4. #304
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Yep, bumping things when they don't make sense. You're nothing if not predictable and trite.

  5. #305
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    You do realize that Dallas didn't have him the whole year, right?
    so if the mavs had him the whole year... then they wouldn't have lost against okc in the 1st round?

  6. #306
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.
    I can't offer any evidence other than my own eye test, however, I thought Manu was transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter - especially late last RS. I think that will become his role more and more - and I hope so, for the reasons you cite.

  7. #307
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I'm sure Anderson will get his post opportunities, and Simmons with his athleticism should be more of a slasher. Manu can hit the 3, so if either of those guys handle the ball, Manu is a capable catch and shoot guy.

    They'll get their chances. Manu will have the ball sometimes sure, but I know they'll have chances, especially Anderson.

    Regardless. I feel like Iverson "we talkin bout practice" cause this overreacting is coming from 1 preseason game lol. It's crazy
    I don't disagree with you. Manu's said he understand they need room to grow, and I assume that means they need the ball. But a Manu who's had to share the second unit night in and night out isn't something we've seen. Last game had no bearing on things, of course. But it will be something to look at all season.

  8. #308
    Like I said... tmtcsc's Avatar
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    this is her around a decade later:


    i just made that gif

    her name is alizee
    Very nice.

  9. #309
    Veteran bklynspursfan's Avatar
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    I can't offer any evidence other than my own eye test, however, I thought Manu was transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter - especially late last RS. I think that will become his role more and more - and I hope so, for the reasons you cite.
    Yea , he def did. But if things are stagnant or nothings happening, the compe or he is will definitely try and make something happen. It's who he is... but he def did improve his spot up shooting

  10. #310
    Veteran bklynspursfan's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with you. Manu's said he understand they need room to grow, and I assume that means they need the ball. But a Manu who's had to share the second unit night in and night out isn't something we've seen. Last game had no bearing on things, of course. But it will be something to look at all season.
    Agreed

  11. #311
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    Yep, bumping things when they don't make sense. You're nothing if not predictable and trite.
    the bump is relatable because it has to do with our big man rotation.

  12. #312
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I can't offer any evidence other than my own eye test, however, I thought Manu was transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter - especially late last RS. I think that will become his role more and more - and I hope so, for the reasons you cite.
    I doubt Anderson or Simmons or Murray will be better PnR and PnP facilitators this year. So I think Manu will have room to work. The question is going to be ratio and balance. Well, the real question is whether Anderson or Simmons can be good enough to even warrant this discussion. But assuming that happens, it won't be simple.

  13. #313
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    so if the mavs had him the whole year... then they wouldn't have lost against okc in the 1st round?
    Who was Dallas' starting center?

  14. #314
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    the bump is relatable because it has to do with our big man rotation.
    Yeah, bumping me saying "Hey, there's this report out saying the Spurs want to start Dedmon but I'm skeptical" is topical? And you're the king of bumping things when you think they make sense in the short term while ignoring the long term. Dedmon will have good games (hopefully a lot), but I'm not going to be acting like an idiot bumping whenever he does.

  15. #315
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    Who was Dallas' starting center?
    chinook always trying to divert
    try answering the question .

  16. #316
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    We never saw Milutinov so we are at a disadvantage evaluating, but it's possible he wasn't ready as well, so if they had to bring one or the other bringing the guy they had ready made commitments to bring this season made sense. It's quite the real likelihood Milutinov was too raw to help as well. They did bring him in for workouts and saw him.
    Remember that he got dominated by Papagiannis over in Greece. Georgios is someone I like quite a bit, but that's the level Milutinov would have be at for me to say he's a rotational center.

  17. #317
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    try answering the question .
    Your dumb ass knows it's backed into a corner, so now it's trying ty intimidation tactics. Anyway, they might not have been the sixth seed had they had Lee all year. But since you are avoiding the question, Zaza was the starter. As we all know, he never got a starting gig again after OKC beat Dallas.

  18. #318
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    I doubt Anderson or Simmons or Murray will be better PnR and PnP facilitators this year. So I think Manu will have room to work. The question is going to be ratio and balance. Well, the real question is whether Anderson or Simmons can be good enough to even warrant this discussion. But assuming that happens, it won't be simple.
    Indeed, it is complicated. The Spurs' roster is mostly comprised of a bunch of hybrid/tweener/"uniquely talented" players (depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist). Anderson is not a PnP or PnR player - but he does need the ball. Simmons has failed to develop his handles to be reliable in that role, and Murray is too raw... Perhaps the bench will not showcase PnR/PnP...

  19. #319
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    your possible solution for the spurs is the back up center for a 6th seed.
    You do realize that Dallas didn't have him the whole year, right?
    so if the mavs had him the whole year... then they wouldn't have lost against okc in the 1st round?
    Your dumb ass knows it's backed into a corner, so now it's trying ty intimidation tactics. Anyway, they might not have been the sixth seed had they had Lee all year. But since you are avoiding the question, Zaza was the starter. As we all know, he never got a starting gig again after OKC beat Dallas.
    so if the mavs had lee all year and were the 5th seed then they wouldn't have lost in the 1st round against the clippers?

    i avoided your question because you avoided mine first how stupid are you?

    and no, i'm not trying "intimidation tactics"
    the fact that you feel that way shows how much of a pussy you are though tbh.

    i'm "backed into a corner"? yeah, i am when i'm surrounded by your ty takes.

  20. #320
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.
    What puzzles me is that they were RC picks, specially Simmons. You could make the argument--bc they stated it publicly in that particular 2014 draft-- that they couldn't pass up on Anderson bc they evaluated him to be within the top 20 in that class, regardless of what he would turn into the following years. He wasn't brought up for a need, he was just an available talent and that's fine, but JSimms they definitely brought in to fill some perceived need. I have my theories about it but don't want to get into it bc it's a tangent.

    Point is though, these two were not added to the team to complement Manu like others were, like Neal, like Marco. So that means he's got to adapt to their games too.

    Simmons has been busting hard so it's difficult to make a case for him but he doesn't space the floor for others and if he doesn't shoot well, how is he going to fit in with a ball dominant SG and two non shooting bigs? He doesn't. He can make the occasional 3 pt shot but shooting is not his strength, and he's most useful with the ball and playing up tempo, which playing with two true bigs isn't. Him playing so poorly, specially in the Suns game where he had opportunities to make plays with the ball in the PnR makes it very difficult in fact to make a case for him at this point. If he doesn't turn it around I don't know how he can help the team. Despite my criticism of him, it's kind of sad and not good for the team that he's not panning out. They have invested in him, Pop has praised him and nurtured him and when they brought him in it was bc he filled some perceived need, so him looking unplayable is a loss right now. Like Pop said, the team loses depth. I don't have the answers. So long as he's in the team I will hope jSimms turns it around but he's frustrating me at times.

    For Anderson, I can't say I am thrilled to see him in the perimeter as a 2/3 either but since Simmons is not panning out that's what happens. I hope his shot at least comes through bc he will need it. I think to use him as a strict spot up shooter is a waste, which is what happens playing next to a high usage SG and two paint clogging bigs but it is what it is. I think they would be better playing a stretch 4 shooter which Bertans is but Pop is going to try to figure out the other two first b4 Bertans gets a shot I am guessing.

  21. #321
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    so if the mavs had lee all year and were the 5th seed then they wouldn't have lost in the 1st round against the clippers?
    They might've. That's just a stupid thing to wonder about, though. Lee was injured during the playoffs, so this was never really a good line of attack by you.

    i avoided your question because you avoided mine first how stupid are you?
    Your question was idiotic. Your whole position is idiotic. Being in the top-40 percent in your conference isn't bad. Look at Gasol. His team didn't even make the playoffs. Were you down on Kawhi because he was the best player on a sixth-seed in 2015? Your takes are like skin-thin, man.

    and no, i'm not trying "intimidation tactics"
    the fact that you feel that way shows how much of a pussy you are though tbh.
    no one's scared of you. It's just silly that you tried to act like a tough guy.

    i'm "backed into a corner"? yeah, i am when i'm surrounded by your ty takes.
    Sorry that we can't all think that players who were key for playoff teams suck because their team lost in the first round. Poor Zaza is just waiting for another chance after being so embarrassed.

  22. #322
    Veteran TrainOfThought5's Avatar
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    Frankly, I don't really want either player - especially not at the expense of "substantial resources." Noel has the defense, Okafor the offense. Neither seems likely to develop into a Very Good/Great all-around NBA player. If I had to choose one, I'd take Noel - but not at a premium.
    We wont get the #1 overall pick anytime soon. Noel and Okafor are two halves of a coin BUT we have Timmy and Chip on payroll. Lets get Noel and see if we cant get him to overachieve on a championship caliber squad.

  23. #323
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Indeed, it is complicated. The Spurs' roster is mostly comprised of a bunch of hybrid/tweener/"uniquely talented" players (depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist). Anderson is not a PnP or PnR player - but he does need the ball. Simmons has failed to develop his handles to be reliable in that role, and Murray is too raw... Perhaps the bench will not showcase PnR/PnP...
    Murray is talented. In fact he reminds me a whole lot of Manu except he can't finish in the paint like Manu could so he shouldn't be forcing so many bad shots. He has a low percentage shooting in the paint, s It's not like he can go Tony and Manu and consume all these possessions just bc he can get into the thick of things. The current state of f his game as far as finishing requires that he plays smarter. He was benched for taking bad shots against the Suns but he's very talented and he can pass to the big on the PnR better than JSimms which together with his youth gives me hope for him. He's just got to get better at his own game and will require tough coaching.

  24. #324
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Indeed, it is complicated. The Spurs' roster is mostly comprised of a bunch of hybrid/tweener/"uniquely talented" players (depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist). Anderson is not a PnP or PnR player - but he does need the ball. Simmons has failed to develop his handles to be reliable in that role, and Murray is too raw... Perhaps the bench will not showcase PnR/PnP...
    It's a mess with 2 bigs who can't shoot regardless... perhaps that explains Manu taking so many shots more than anything else.

  25. #325
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    It's just silly that you tried to act like a tough guy.
    i'm talking basketball

    if you get the impression that i come off as tough, then good. i'm not acting.

    you come off like a .

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