Kyle Anderson isn't good enough...

[BillMc]

New Jimmer thread potential, tbh...

[Brazil]

He'll always be taller than Green, though. So he'll always need less time. Also, PFs would probably be slower at closing out, both because of their physical makeup and because of where they tend to be on the floor. Again, I think spacing is a lot more complicated that folks initially believe.

PFs will be obviously slower (see Dirk shooting 3s and the headache for defense) but again it does not seem to matter because he is reluctant to shoot any wide open anyway. And again this is what I'm saying spacing is sometimes a problem for some players. IIRC there are some stuff about guys like Lebron or Harden shooting a better % from 3s when contested than open unlike the "natural" guys like allen, korver, Durant and co.

[Brazil]

He can easily play SF.

of course he can... in theory he can also play SG

[Chinook]

PFs will be obviously slower (see Dirk shooting 3s and the headache for defense) but again it does not seem to matter because he is reluctant to shoot any wide open anyway. And again this is what I'm saying spacing is sometimes a problem for some players. IIRC there are some stuff about guys like Lebron or Harden shooting a better % from 3s when contested than open unlike the "natural" guys like allen, korver, Durant and co.

And I don't disagree with you at all that that's a possibility. That is definitely mental, though. If the dude can hit contested threes at a high rate, there will be room for those shots in the offense. Leonard takes at least one of those a game.

[Brazil]

New Jimmer thread potential, tbh...

I see what you did here

[sasaint]

If he's going to be that, it has to be clear. It's not clear to me that he is. Maybe they want him to be, but he's not right now. Placing things in context:

Pop really sat Tony to give the ball to Kawhi, if we were paying attention. I think it's hard playing next to a vet to not defer, which is why those comments about Manu wanting to feel important and taking 35% of the posessions or something like 14 shots in 16 minutes were shocking to me. Anyways I made a huge deal of it, but since I didn't watch the game, maybe I got things out of proportion.

But if you are a humble 23 year old, how can you assert yourself playing next to that? No way, you sit back and watch the HoF vet player do work.

Even LMA had a bit of a stargaze playing next to Tim... ppl forget that... Kawhi had to be pushed each season, hard. Manu gave that statement in that article I posted just today that initially Pop had to call plays for Kawhi (thus why I think the offense looked so forced initially and mechanica when featuring Kawhi for the first time 2 seasons ago) and Tony had to set up a play for him. Only now his 5th? season he's calling his own number truly without anyone telling him to, or giving him the ball and we are talking about an MVP candidate even last season, and super talented player. It's a lot, to show in preseason coming off last season. What I am hoping is to see growth and development in that direction. It's complicated by others in the rotation (Dedmon mostly) being new himself, relatively inexperienced too (probably has nearly around the same minutes of NBA games as Kyle for example), then a change in the system.

I guess one game does not show for me all that can be, but there has to be improvement for sure.

Perhaps my initial comment was too broad/general. I don't expect him to become a first unit team leader this season. But I think I do expect him to take more control and exercise more leadership with bench units. He doesn't spend all of his time on the floor with Manu. Even so, he just needs to become more assertive all around in order to have any future here. It is almost inconceivable that he could be traded this season - only as filler in a deal involving a bigger contract to shore up a position that craters.

[Brazil]

And I don't disagree with you at all that that's a possibility. That is definitely mental, though. If the dude can hit contested threes at a high rate, there will be room for those shots in the offense. Leonard takes at least one of those a game.

absolutely but it is a big IF

[sasaint]

New Jimmer thread potential, tbh...

Don't go there. As questionable as the younger/newer prospects look Surt****r might make a convert of me...

[SAGirl]

Diaw's ball-handling and passing skills were/are a huge asset for him, even playing as a big. But to be able to play big, he had to bulk up - a lot. I think Kyle, and the Spurs, could be a lot better off if they just lock in on making him a versatile 4 and not keep experimenting. He's got good length, and he's shown a knack (and a willingness) for rebounding. And I'm pretty sold on him being able to sneak out and knock down 3's at a respectable clip. I'm not joking when I say that he should go see whoever helped Draymond bulk up a few seasons ago. I know that not respectable Spurs fan would condone such a thing, but that's the state of the industry.

Kyle's not a point, nor a point-forward. And he just isn't quick enough to slash like a small forward.

I am willing to concede all points in this theoretical debate as far as suggestions that would be better for his game bc they are hypotheticals. If he flunks this up and Pop moves him in his experiments I will give you points (I know it's not your thing, just saying this is not my personal pet peeve lol).

Really, I am not forcefully arguing for a role, more than anything I am just observing him, what he's doing, what Pop has him doing, other guys he's in there with and what they are running. At this point, I think this is on Pop, he said he would figure this out, but it's within context. It's not like they will move guys around for him or anything. For example, they have serious spacing issues that is evident, playing the two bigs requires a craftiness lacking from Dedmon's game to begin with, but they are not going to bench Lee to play Kyle at the 4, when Lee is a big contributor to them in the paint and on the boards, plus is active as a garbage man, who gets some shots up that way. So KA might start growing as a 4 this season, but they lose some things Lee provides that Dedmon doesn't do (uggghhhhh) and meantime who are they playing in the wing? (and they also have another worthy prospect in Bertans, and then LJC, at the 4. They have depth at the 4 spot, but almost nothing on the wing after Kiwi/Danny/Manu). Then it's more alarming when one realizes Manu can't play that many minutes and will be absent in games. That is when I realize arguing for him at PF is moot right this second. Heck maybe they didn't want him to bulk up so much after all lol.

Then within that role and this offense I think we do have to allow some games, for chemistry to develop, for the bigs to know what they are doing, for him to know where his shots are going to come from, get his chemistry and 2 man game going with Lee or Dedmon or whoever, etc.

SL didn't help much in this context, bc it's not even the talent gap (he was always competing against the best wing or big on the other team, all NBA players youngs like Trey Lyles), its more than anything the role was different, where his shots are coming from is different, what he's doing is different. They sent him to play strictly as a big, but here is strictly a wing so he has to find his shots within this context which is different. I think they will look better as unit with time and I do hope Pop pushes that shooting along, even green lighting the calling up of a screen to get his shot off if he needs it bc offense went nowhere and he got stuck for example.

I do foresee Manu and Mills bailing out posessions but hopefully they continue to push his buttons along. I will look at it as a progression this season. I want him to be better by ASB than this game for example. If he isn't then it's a disappointment (everyone should be too, just more chemistry and Pop figuring things out)

[SAGirl]

I found this on PTR and it was too funny:

[SAGirl]

Perhaps my initial comment was too broad/general. I don't expect him to become a first unit team leader this season. But I think I do expect him to take more control and exercise more leadership with bench units. He doesn't spend all of his time on the floor with Manu. Even so, he just needs to become more assertive all around in order to have any future here. It is almost inconceivable that he could be traded this season - only as filler in a deal involving a bigger contract to shore up a position that craters.

I agree. I hope he finds his groove. I still have reservations with Dedmon and Lee working out TBH. Kyle likes to drive. Ppl may criticize that or his effectiveness but he was effective in the paint last season. He shot 60% in the paint and overall made good decisions to pass or go for his shot. He's not generally this inefficient in the paint. He drove in the Suns game and scored or got fouled, he drove here and got fouled. He can't drive with these two bigs that often, his shots will be met at the rim, and he can't pass to the "pop" man who doesn't really pop. I think they would be better with Bertans but that would mean Bertans has to hold up defensively and I didn't see that from him. So it's not just him that have to be better, several others have to be better.

[bklynspursfan]

I agree. I hope he finds his groove. I still have reservations with Dedmon and Lee working out TBH. Kyle likes to drive. Ppl may criticize that or his effectiveness but he was effective in the paint last season. He shot 60% in the paint and overall made good decisions to pass or go for his shot. He's not generally this inefficient in the paint. He drove in the Suns game and scored or got fouled, he drove here and got fouled. He can't drive with these two bigs that often, his shots will be met at the rim, and he can't pass to the "pop" man who doesn't really pop. I think they would be better with Bertans but that would mean Bertans has to hold up defensively and I didn't see that from him. So it's not just him that have to be better, several others have to be better.

It may turn out to be better with Bertans/Lee, but just to be safe, KA should start to work a little outside his comfort zone. He's not in a position where he's like great at like 1 thing, so he can be asked to do that 1 thing and be great at it. (Like a 3 &D guy, or shot blocker) He's trying to get more minutes and ultimately earn a better contract.

Many have compared him to Diaw, but what made Diaw great is he really did a bit of everything, from spotting up and hitting 3's, working in the post and taking advantage of mismatches, being the ball handler, etc...

Even early on in TP's career, he loved to drive and finish in the paint. He was always among the leaders of points in the paint, even at his size. But when he really became elite was when he got the mid-range shot going, and forced defenses to respect that shot. You couldn't sag off him anymore. KA has to step outside his comfort zone IMO if he wants to be successful here. It seems like he is capable, but doesn't always feel comfortable doing so. Guess we'll see as the season progresses

[BOHOLANO#21]

I was at the game vs Pistons. Slowmo has not changed. Bertans should take his minutes. Spurs should cut Slowmo and sign Garino. Just my two cents.

[jyra]

I found this on PTR and it was too funny:

Sry but I just had to do it..

[SAGirl]

Sry but I just had to do it..

[TD 21]

I never saw it and I don't get the Spurs' obsession with him. The high IQ talk is overstated because he's light skinned and lacks athleticism. I say this because I've seen nothing to suggest he's even a definitively better passer than Simmons, yet he doesn't have a reputation as high IQ. Sure there's more to it than vision/passing, but typically the association goes hand in hand.

They both have the same issue: The need to be ball dominant to be at their best, only they're not good enough at this level to justify it. Talk of packaging one for anything of significance is a pipe dream, as is utilizing Bertans as a full time small forward.

[SAGirl]

I never saw it and I don't get the Spurs' obsession with him. The high IQ talk is overstated because he's light skinned and lacks athleticism. I say this because I've seen nothing to suggest he's even a definitively better passer than Simmons, yet he doesn't have a reputation as high IQ. Sure there's more to it than vision/passing, but typically the association goes hand in hand.

They both have the same issue: The need to be ball dominant to be at their best, only they're not good enough at this level to justify it. Talk of packaging one for anything of significance is a pipe dream, as is utilizing Bertans as a full time small forward.

Will try to minimize my comments bc I have already posted a whole lot more than I intended to. It will be a recurring topic anyways.

These are the guys RC got in. KA was an available talent in the draft so it was a good gamble, but JSimms was scouted and brought in for a reason. The entire team cannot be shooters with no one else. They provided something different that was worth developing and Pop has hopes about them (he said anyways). The team doesn't have much depth and won't acquire it trading them, they are all very cheap and each new guy you add is another new person in a system that is complex. I doubt there are trades unless the team is doing really bad midseason.

The guys who should be doing the heavy lifting are well compensated save Mills, who will get paid this summer.

This is a development opportunity for the players and worth following for me just by itself personally... but to each his own (in this thread, not talking about you specifically TD, each one watches for their own reasons)

[TD 21]

Will try to minimize my comments bc I have already posted a whole lot more than I intended to. It will be a recurring topic anyways.

These are the guys RC got in. KA was an available talent in the draft so it was a good gamble, but JSimms was scouted and brought in for a reason. The entire team cannot be shooters with no one else. They provided something different that was worth developing and Pop has hopes about them (he said anyways). The team doesn't have much depth and won't acquire it trading them, they are all very cheap and each new guy you add is another new person in a system that is complex. I doubt there are trades unless the team is doing really bad midseason.

The guys who should be doing the heavy lifting are well compensated save Mills, who will get paid this summer.

This is a development opportunity for the players and worth following for me just by itself personally... but to each his own (in this thread, not talking about you specifically TD, each one watches for their own reasons)

The reality is, they're not good enough to play the role they need to at this level to be successful (at least on an elite team) and unless Murray makes an unexpected quantum leap in the next year, they're going to need to go out and find a second unit creator, if Ginobili does the expected and retires.

In the meantime, whether you and your buddy like it or not, the bench offensively still rightfully revolves around Ginobili and he needs more floor spacers surrounding him.

[MaNu4Tres]

The reality is, they're not good enough to play the role they need to at this level to be successful (at least on an elite team) and unless Murray makes an unexpected quantum leap in the next year, they're going to need to go out and find a second unit creator, if Ginobili does the expected and retires.

In the meantime, whether you and your buddy like it or not, the bench offensively still rightfully revolves around Ginobili and he needs more floor spacers surrounding him.

Thank you, TD.

[SAGirl]

The reality is, they're not good enough to play the role they need to at this level to be successful (at least on an elite team) and unless Murray makes an unexpected quantum leap in the next year, they're going to need to go out and find a second unit creator, if Ginobili does the expected and retires.

In the meantime, whether you and your buddy like it or not, the bench offensively still rightfully revolves around Ginobili and he needs more floor spacers surrounding him.

I think you derive satisfaction in being right, and I do just enjoy watching players play and young players develop TBH.

[TD 21]

Thank you, TD.

I think you derive satisfaction in being right, and I do just enjoy watching players play and young players develop TBH.

No, I "derive satisfaction" in winning championships and Anderson and Simmons doing third rate Ginobili impersonations isn't a means to that end.

[SAGirl]

No, I "derive satisfaction" in winning championships and Anderson and Simmons doing third rate Ginobili impersonations isn't a means to that end.

OK fine TD have it your way, since I don't like to argue just for the heck of it. The long season is a long road to get there and it won't be survived on Ginobili's back.

[BD24]

SAgirl just said she doesn't like to argue

Jesus I've heard it all now.

[apalisoc_9]

Comparing Kyle anderson growth to the needed developlemnt kawhi took is incredibly delusional. They were nowhere close in terms of potential as a rookie and Leonard significantly improved every year..Even Without the ball in his hands

The fact of the matter is that, San Antonio is still trying to compete for a championship and Ginobili is still the best guy of the bench. Taking responsibilities away from him, is silly when none of the potential guys who can replace him comes close to his level of production.

In addition, Suggesting that a team runs Isolations and Pop to run a system with the bench that maximises the 4th best bench guy is even more ridiculous...

Leonard won his Responsibilies by performing at an extrmely high level as an off the ball guy in hos rookie year. Kyle is at his third year and is still terrible at figuring out how to contribute without the ball.

[SAGirl]

SAgirl just said she doesn't like to argue

Jesus I've heard it all now.

Not for the sake of it. I like to exchange opinions and such, but I don't look to be right all the time and if at some point it deviates into I am right you are wrong I cut bait, bc there is no point from my perspective.

I can be faulted for being too wordy, too chatty, too essay-ing... etc but pointless discussions from my perspective, I am trying to stay away from. I value TD's opinion in fact. I don't consider him ignorant at all, but I have a different perspective from him and once we get to that, what's the point? I respect him.