World Cup Qualifiers

[dfens]

A team like Italy has no bussiness mantaining a structure that gave them b2b group stage eliminations, tbh.

if you consider the calciopoli effects (loss of huge amount of revenue and players, heavy destruction of the youth system = long term/generational effect) and that the they were :
- finalists at euro'12
- finalists at u21 euro'13
- winners of wc in '06
- had some tough luck in '14 (vs costa rica, vs uruguay)
- qualified to all tournaments (they didn't pull a netherlands collapse or like how argentina might be doing right now with a ing stacked roster too, 5th spot with a tough schedule is no joke son)
that's actually not a bad catch for the last 10 years, given the dire conditions .. They'll be back to 1st tier, and we all know it and hate it (these s always give us a serious match tbh )

So it's exactly the other way around, italy is maintaining structure for when they'll get some talent when the long term effects of the calciopoli end, they'll continue to produce world class defenders and if they get a generation with 3-4 talented offensive players they'll contend easily ... which brings us to the whole purpose of structure .. you maintain it and train for it as to benefit maximally when you got talent, not to waste talent like messi for example. Argentina would be smart to learn this, but y'all s refuse to learn this basic thing. Let me tell you something tbh, if argentina's federation wasn't a corrupt union of olded sissies you s would have 4-5 rings. It is what it is. Laugh all you want at italy but they got more rings than argentina and they are also the last team to ring, I'm also willing to bet that italy will be the next to reach a world cup final before argentina.

[dfens]

also on the topic of structure and italy, it's a little known thing that italy has changed their defensive training and player development methods from manmarking heavy to positional defending heavy in a "the game is changing spirit", which imo was misguided. This has been cited as a cause for them not producing truly elite level defenders (nesta/cannavaro/maldini/baresi level, chiellini is great but no historic). We had a show on tv where they showed an interview with cannavaro talking about this and how he said that italy will produce much fewer elite defenders with this method (and he was right, this was back in '10/'11). Right now they are going back to manmarking as far as I hear.

What I'm trying to say here is that long term planning is needed, which should also take into account the strengths and weaknesses of a country. While we got this right and we had some great results with this generation wc 1st and 3rd place, euro 2nd and 3rd place many other countries have failed because they refuse to understand that not all countries are spain/portugal/argentina technically, france/nigeria athletically or argentina/peak brasil talent wise. Winning a world cup takes more than talent and a good NT coach, a country needs to develop a team from 7 year olds to 30 year olds to win.

[ElNono]

The main problem is the coach, not the players.

You can say whatever you want about the lost finals but this same group of players played well under Sabella and Martino, and the cold hard facts prove it: Sabella 70% winning efficiency, Martino 74% winning efficiency. 3 consecutive finals, and only 3 games lost in the last 4 years.

Bauza came and ed it all over. Folks used to about beating teams like Venezuela, Peru and Chile by 3, 4, 5 goals but then failing in the finlas, but now we not only don't score 3, 4, 5 goals against Venezuela, Perú and Paraguay but we don't even beat them.

The problem isn't the players, it's the way that Bauza makes them play. Bauza is an old, outdated coach. Everybody, and their mothers, realizes that in modern football one of the main keys to be a good, compe ive squad that wants to fight for the big prizes, is to have a short, compact team that presses as high as possible and doesn't give the other team time to think and/or play. Bauza doesn't believe on this, so he sets a team, with tactics from the stone age, where the defenders are stuck on their own box 50 metres away from the forwards. This leads to a long team that gets outnumbered on every part of the pitch, which means they can't make two passes on a row, they can't win the ball back quickly, and they can't win a 50/50 ball even if their lives depend on it. I know they just hired the guy, but if they don't get rid of him quickly Argentina is ed.

That's bull . Bull . Some players are just not in a good moment right now, that happens... some guys like Di Maria, Rojo, they're ing around. But they're Messi buddies... did you hear that about Lavezzi? that.

Guys like Gaitan or Biglia, just not NT level, period. Lots of selfishness and ego on that team right now.

This team is strictly Messi-dependent right now because the rest is playing at an absolute decrepit level. Heck, it would help Messi a whole lot to have a few guys more hungry and ready to work for him, not this egoistical bull .

Some of these guys have been playing for 6+ years together. Don't tell me they don't know how to make two passes in a row, that's not just on the coach. And some guys are starting to show their age... I love Masche, but he was dog the last two games.

Another goal on the near post on Romero... that's on the goalie. There's no accountability right now. They up, and "its ok, they'll do better next game".

[DAF86]

That's bull . Bull . Some players are just not in a good moment right now, that happens... some guys like Di Maria, Rojo, they're ing around. But they're Messi buddies... did you hear that about Lavezzi? that.

Guys like Gaitan or Biglia, just not NT level, period. Lots of selfishness and ego on that team right now.

This team is strictly Messi-dependent right now because the rest is playing at an absolute decrepit level. Heck, it would help Messi a whole lot to have a few guys more hungry and ready to work for him, not this egoistical bull .

Some of these guys have been playing for 6+ years together. Don't tell me they don't know how to make two passes in a row, that's not just on the coach. And some guys are starting to show their age... I love Masche, but he was dog the last two games.

Another goal on the near post on Romero... that's on the goalie. There's no accountability right now. They up, and "its ok, they'll do better next game".

No, they won't do better next game unless the dumbass coach gets his in place.

[dfens]

I finally understood why you south american s can't pay good coaches, y'all sons are barely paying the energy bill .. that venezuela-brasil match tbh

[Canyonero]

I finally understood why you south american s can't pay good coaches, y'all sons are barely paying the energy bill .. that venezuela-brasil match tbh

a little rain and lights go off.

[Brazil]

Argentina is in a tough spot... better get their together quick

[lefty]

I finally understood why you south american s can't pay good coaches, y'all sons are barely paying the energy bill .. that venezuela-brasil match tbh

Marseille didn't pay the bill vs Milan

[ElNono]

No, they won't do better next game unless the dumbass coach gets his in place.

These guys are going to get Bauza to quit or get fired, like Basile, Batista, Sabella, Martino... nothing's going to change. Some have been together for 10+ years and they think they're above the coach and the team, and they haven't won .

As long as the 'friends of Messi' think they own the NT, nothing is going to change. It's on Bauza to have the balls to take over the team and who to call and how to play, and if somebody doesn't like it, tough cookies. Or he's going to lose his job soon, and nothing is going to change again.

[DAF86]

These guys are going to get Bauza to quit or get fired, like Basile, Batista, Sabella, Martino... nothing's going to change. Some have been together for 10+ years and they think they're above the coach and the team, and they haven't won .

As long as the 'friends of Messi' think they own the NT, nothing is going to change. It's on Bauza to have the balls to take over the team and who to call and how to play, and if somebody doesn't like it, tough cookies. Or he's going to lose his job soon, and nothing is going to change again.

Dude, you do realize that this group of players won 73% of the pts under Sabella and Martino, and lost only 3 games in 4 years? You are talking like they have been stinking up the joint for years, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Don't be like those ers on facebook that call these young millonaires losers for being second, as if they ever came close to being second in whatever they they do in life for a living.

[ElNono]

Dude, you do realize that this group of players won 73% of the pts under Sabella and Martino, and lost only 3 games in 4 years? You are talking like they have been stinking up the joint for years, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Don't be like those ers on facebook that call these young millonaires losers for being second, as if they ever came close to being second in whatever they they do in life for a living.

They won 0% of the games that matter.... ZERO... maybe that's "acceptable" in this day and age, tbh, but once you've been a champ, you learn that nobody cares about #2. Maybe this is foreign to kids 20 and under, but some of us who were pretty young in '78 and teenagers in '86, know what this is all about. Second is not good enough. Heck, I'm not talking just world cup, add Copa Americas, etc.

People used to on Zanetti or Batistuta because they never won a World Cup with the NT, but at least they did bring some hardware home. That was the bar back then, winning the world cup. Copa America, we knew we'll get one here or there.

But I tell you what: analyzing the overall, it was a good cycle. A cycle that ended and it's begging for a renovation, but good. I don't call them spoiled millionaires, nor I say they don't have talent, but it's clear that there's something mental there, and there's also the fact that the Mascherano from 10 years ago is not today's Masche. Same with Di Maria. Sometimes when they get too comfy, you gotta kick them in the nuts a little a bit, see if they're still going to fight for it. Messi is the only guy that's so good that's untouchable. The rest should be up for debate.

And let's stop pretending this team plays well when Messi plays too. He saved our asses with that goal against Uruguay, in what was otherwise a terrible game. In the world cup, we almost tie with ing Iran, 3-2 against Nigeria. Copa America in Argentina, we can't beat Uruguay. We got destroyed by Germany with Maradroga. Same group of guys. We don't need a savior, we need to build a better team around Messi. It's better for him too. It shouldn't be about his buddies. The NT should be above the names. You should earn the right to be there.

You sold me a young guy like Lo Celso... Alario, Maidana are pretty good too. Where are they? It's not like we don't have players that want a shot. Guys like Musacchio, Dybala, Mas, they need more time.

What the is Demichelis doing there? Otra vez Zabaleta? Lavezzi is not even called up and training in Ezeiza. They think they own the team. It's bull and if it doesn't stop, they're going to swallow Bauza too.

That's why I preferred a coach like Simeone, somebody with balls, because that's what's going to take to clean up. Heck, hire Caruso Lombardi just to clean up, then fire him and hire a real coach.

[dfens]

They won 0% of the games that matter.... ZERO... maybe that's "acceptable" in this day and age, tbh, but once you've been a champ, you learn that nobody cares about #2. Maybe this is foreign to kids 20 and under, but some of us who were pretty young in '78 and teenagers in '86, know what this is all about. Second is not good enough. Heck, I'm not talking just world cup, add Copa Americas, etc.

People used to on Zanetti or Batistuta because they never won a World Cup with the NT, but at least they did bring some hardware home. That was the bar back then, winning the world cup. Copa America, we knew we'll get one here or there.

But I tell you what: analyzing the overall, it was a good cycle. A cycle that ended and it's begging for a renovation, but good. I don't call them spoiled millionaires, nor I say they don't have talent, but it's clear that there's something mental there, and there's also the fact that the Mascherano from 10 years ago is not today's Masche. Same with Di Maria. Sometimes when they get too comfy, you gotta kick them in the nuts a little a bit, see if they're still going to fight for it. Messi is the only guy that's so good that's untouchable. The rest should be up for debate.

And let's stop pretending this team plays well when Messi plays too. He saved our asses with that goal against Uruguay, in what was otherwise a terrible game. In the world cup, we almost tie with ing Iran, 3-2 against Nigeria. Copa America in Argentina, we can't beat Uruguay. We got destroyed by Germany with Maradroga. Same group of guys. We don't need a savior, we need to build a better team around Messi. It's better for him too. It shouldn't be about his buddies. The NT should be above the names. You should earn the right to be there.

You sold me a young guy like Lo Celso... Alario, Maidana are pretty good too. Where are they? It's not like we don't have players that want a shot. Guys like Musacchio, Dybala, Mas, they need more time.

What the is Demichelis doing there? Otra vez Zabaleta? Lavezzi is not even called up and training in Ezeiza. They think they own the team. It's bull and if it doesn't stop, they're going to swallow Bauza too.

That's why I preferred a coach like Simeone, somebody with balls, because that's what's going to take to clean up. Heck, hire Caruso Lombardi just to clean up, then fire him and hire a real coach.

son simeone on that argentina coaching job would bring you s hardware tbh. But he ain't leaving atletico for that house you call a federation.

[Canyonero]

I don't rate Simeone as a winner tbh.

[spursistan]

I don't rate Simeone as a winner tbh.

nah..two impressive CL runs beating more talented Europeans juggernaut. He just didn't get the right bounces in the Finals both times his team was better throughout 90mins..

[Canyonero]

nah..two impressive CL runs beating more talented Europeans juggernaut. He just didn't get the right bounces in the Finals both times his team was better throughout 90mins..

So pretty much Argentina in the last tournaments.

[ElNono]

I don't rate Simeone as a winner tbh.

He might not be the greatest, but he was champ with Estudiantes, River... in Atletico he won La Liga, Copa del Rey, SuperCopa, UEFA Europa League and UEFA SuperCup.

And on paper, the point is that he's a guy with character that's not married to the players. Why did we go through 5 coaches if we're going to be playing the same ?

I'm not even saying don't call some of these guys up anymore. Bring Lo Celso, tell Di Maria he's going to compete for a spot with him. At his current level, Di Maria is a reserve at best. Same thing with Masche.

Aguero is now saying he's not playing comfortable, and he's not used to play with another 9. That's the kind of that vanished Tevez from the NT, but because Aguero le seba mate a Messi, he gets to stay. Ridiculous, tbh...

[Canyonero]

He might not be the greatest, but he was champ with Estudiantes, River... in Atletico he won La Liga, Copa del Rey, SuperCopa, UEFA Europa League and UEFA SuperCup.

And on paper, the point is that he's a guy with character that's not married to the players. Why did we go through 5 coaches if we're going to be playing the same ?

I'm not even saying don't call some of these guys up anymore. Bring Lo Celso, tell Di Maria he's going to compete for a spot with him. At his current level, Di Maria is a reserve at best. Same thing with Masche.

Aguero is now saying he's not playing comfortable, and he's not used to play with another 9. That's the kind of that vanished Tevez from the NT, but because Aguero le seba mate a Messi, he gets to stay. Ridiculous, tbh...

He ended last with River fwiw.

[DAF86]

They won 0% of the games that matter.... ZERO... maybe that's "acceptable" in this day and age, tbh, but once you've been a champ, you learn that nobody cares about #2. Maybe this is foreign to kids 20 and under, but some of us who were pretty young in '78 and teenagers in '86, know what this is all about. Second is not good enough. Heck, I'm not talking just world cup, add Copa Americas, etc.

People used to on Zanetti or Batistuta because they never won a World Cup with the NT, but at least they did bring some hardware home. That was the bar back then, winning the world cup. Copa America, we knew we'll get one here or there.

But I tell you what: analyzing the overall, it was a good cycle. A cycle that ended and it's begging for a renovation, but good. I don't call them spoiled millionaires, nor I say they don't have talent, but it's clear that there's something mental there, and there's also the fact that the Mascherano from 10 years ago is not today's Masche. Same with Di Maria. Sometimes when they get too comfy, you gotta kick them in the nuts a little a bit, see if they're still going to fight for it. Messi is the only guy that's so good that's untouchable. The rest should be up for debate.

And let's stop pretending this team plays well when Messi plays too. He saved our asses with that goal against Uruguay, in what was otherwise a terrible game. In the world cup, we almost tie with ing Iran, 3-2 against Nigeria. Copa America in Argentina, we can't beat Uruguay. We got destroyed by Germany with Maradroga. Same group of guys. We don't need a savior, we need to build a better team around Messi. It's better for him too. It shouldn't be about his buddies. The NT should be above the names. You should earn the right to be there.

You sold me a young guy like Lo Celso... Alario, Maidana are pretty good too. Where are they? It's not like we don't have players that want a shot. Guys like Musacchio, Dybala, Mas, they need more time.

What the is Demichelis doing there? Otra vez Zabaleta? Lavezzi is not even called up and training in Ezeiza. They think they own the team. It's bull and if it doesn't stop, they're going to swallow Bauza too.

That's why I preferred a coach like Simeone, somebody with balls, because that's what's going to take to clean up. Heck, hire Caruso Lombardi just to clean up, then fire him and hire a real coach.

ElNono is Bilardo and I didn't know it?

P/S: What silverware did Zanetti win with Argentina?

[ElNono]

ElNono is Bilardo and I didn't know it?

P/S: What silverware did Zanetti win with Argentina?

My bad, I thought Zanetti was in the 1993 Copa America team...

It's ok to hate Bilardo, because dude was a maniac, but he was also a workaholic. And he also had balls. He pretty much cleaned up the NT after they won in '78 and some players thought they were hot and owned the NT (hola Daniel). He knew who his best player was, and built a team around him. A real team. Valdano, who was a 'star' in Madrid, was marking people in on defense, then helping in midfield. Not this pussy ass from Aguero or Tevez of I'm not comfortable playing here or there .

lmao @ this team running away from Buenos Aires because they hate us . They hate you everywhere now because you ing suck.

[ElNono]

He ended last with River fwiw.

He did win the Clausura 2008 with us, tbh...

[ElNono]

And yeah, not a fan of violinistas either.... I mean, if you win and play good looking football, all the better. But let's play well at least, then we can win or lose, or whatever, but this team hasn't played well in a while. And it's not all on Messi.

[urunobili]

urunobili is it late for merging?

I am pro merger TBH. God and Suarez together is fútbol porn...

[Canyonero]

He did win the Clausura 2008 with us, tbh...

So did Astrada and Pellegrini tbh.

[ElNono]

So did Astrada and Pellegrini tbh.

And Gallardo and Gallego... most championships won with a coach's last name starting with 'Gall'? Likely, IMO.

[ElNono]

Heard Bauza with Niembro yesterday, this niglet is encandilado con figuritas... buckle up, and hope Missi keeps bailing us out...