LMA Trade Talk

[Bearcaught]

I don't get why these forums are filled with all this LMA trade talk nonsense. Its not going to happen- I honestly think hes not even on the market. He was a Beast in the playoffs last year and almost single handedly won us two playoff games along with Kawhi. LMA is not the problem on our team. Period. We aren't the euro ball movement crazy team like we were in 2014. Thats not coming back- and its not LMAs fault either. Kawhi gets more ISO calls than LMA by far- and hes GREAT at them. Why would we go away from our strength of our team's two best players to be some B team with some ball movement? I just dont get it- people need to think with their brains.

Our biggest ing problem is Parker- and I really hate the parker haters who hate him for no reason- I am not one of those parker haters. I hasnt been THAT bad until this season. Honestly this season has been his worst so far that I've seen him. I mean hes REALLY bad right now... When I see him sub in im like " " because he cant defend at all and he cant score and hes not much better than patty in passing. Patty should be starting right now but I think Pop is just sticking with parker to be loyal. Honestly from the little ive seen of Nico I'd rather have tony be the 3rd string. I really liked what I saw from Nico- he can run the pick and roll- great passing- can knock down an occasional 3 and hes probably better than parker on defense too.

[mo7888]

On the issue of Low ball offers in a contract year for LMA- You would expect that if it was from a team that LMA didn't want to go to but, if he gives PATFO a list of preferred teams that he'd be willing to re-sign with then it strengthens our position and shows good will to other FA's out there because we didn't just ship him to basketball purgatory (Sacramento).

[K...]

If you were another team, would you give up significant assets or a package for a 1 yr rental or half yr rental of LaMarcus next yr?

But the contra is why would the spurs punt on Kawhi's mvp season to maximize trade value?

[Chinook]

Man, are you intentionally setting up straw-men? In an earlier post you seemed to suggest that moving LMA would only net "non-bucket-getters" in return. Are you suggesting here that Durant would have necessarily netted the three Brooklyn picks? Again, your crystal ball is far clearer than mine. But I am good with that, and I freely admit mine is mostly cloudy.

Nah, what I'm saying is that even if he had gotten a tremendous haul, they still wouldn't necessarily be better, because stars are so rare and yet so foundational that they aren't replaceable through anything but dump luck. And if a team has anyone Durant's caliber, they aren't trading him for KD, as their interest would be to pair the two. Like the Pacers would probably trade anything but PG for Kawhi, because even if Kawhi is better, there was no point in making the move if you still only end up with one.

Bottom line is that you and I both doubt LMA will be moved in-season, and I am sure we would both be shocked at that eventuality. I just think it would be a potentially good move and you, a bad one.

Bad is a relative statement. I think it would be very unlikely for the Spurs to win the trade. They pick up another Kawhi and a Green-level big, and maybe there's something to it. But it's just not worth assuming.

[Chinook]

If you were another team, would you give up significant assets or a package for a 1 yr rental or half yr rental of LaMarcus next yr?

Obviously depends on the team. But if I'm like Boston? I would. I would too if I were Toronto, but I don't think they have the assets to give. If I were Philly? no.

If there were a LMA-level guard I could get for SA without moving LMA and Kawhi, I'd strongly consider it, even if it took Green as part of the package, and you know that's like giving away my own brother.

[sasaint]

Nah, what I'm saying is that even if he had gotten a tremendous haul, they still wouldn't necessarily be better, because stars are so rare and yet so foundational that they aren't replaceable through anything but dump luck. And if a team has anyone Durant's caliber, they aren't trading him for KD, as their interest would be to pair the two. Like the Pacers would probably trade anything but PG for Kawhi, because even if Kawhi is better, there was no point in making the move if you still only end up with one.

In a test-tube that's all true. But there are players' at udes/contentment levels and contractual issues that complicate the issue. For example, Kawhistorm has a scenario involving Paul Millsap, which may not be to your liking, however, it is not a big stretch to see that Millsap could be disgruntled after this last off-season and won't re-up with the Hawks. All I am saying is there are scenarios... Heck, you, yourself, apparently would view a LMA/Melo swap favorably, and I bet Phil would do that in a heartbeat.

[sasaint]

But the contra is why would the spurs punt on Kawhi's mvp season to maximize trade value?

Possibly because the Spurs' purpose is not to promote individual players' MVP candidacies, but to win championships...

[MaNu4Tres]

But the contra is why would the spurs punt on Kawhi's mvp season to maximize trade value?

I wouldnt consider it punting. Punting is trading LA for two 1st round picks with nothing to show for this yr.

What if they brought in a PG that can defend well and create, which would be a huge net postive on both ends over Parker? All while getting a PF that can defend just as well or better than LA but downside isnt an elite pick and popper or scorer?

Also, Gasol wld actually get to utilize his main value ( offense w/ ball more) as his usage wld increase now. This would help replace some O inside that Spurs wld lose.

Theyd lose LA, but theyd gain more at PG than they would lose at PF. Defending and creating from the perimeter is imo, more valuable in todays NBA than avg. D, great iso shooting from PF spot. Imo

Also, dont forget a pick too.

Its more complicated to quantify than " well we wont be bringing in a guy that made the All Star team so were punting."

[MaNu4Tres]

Obviously depends on the team. But if I'm like Boston? I would. I would too if I were Toronto, but I don't think they have the assets to give. If I were Philly? no.

If there were a LMA-level guard I could get for SA without moving LMA and Kawhi, I'd strongly consider it, even if it took Green as part of the package, and you know that's like giving away my own brother.

Why would you if you were Boston? When you can just wait til the summer and sign him without giving any assets.

Thats one thing Melo and Knicks regret about not waiting a few months. He could have went to a stronger team had they all waited 6 months.

[SAGirl]

Isn't that the point? They need guys for the immediate future, which they currently lack - as well as for the present. Question: Do you think with the Spurs' current backcourt (heck, team) that they are legit contenders this season? With Timmy's unexpectedly sudden breakdown, last season was just the beginning. If Tony doesn't even reach the level of "serviceable" this season (laying aside Manu's current level of play), the Spurs will have stayed too late at the parade. They appear to be in reactionary mode, rather than pro-active mode. That slope is starting to look pretty slippery to me.

That is a different subject so I will try to curb my essays and be brief: Tony and Manu are both done... c'est finit, past their expiration date. They have no business getting a lot of minutes for a true contender. Manu still competes on defense, but everything else is lacking... and we saw in the postseason that Dion Waiters ate him alive. He's 39 and shows. Tony knees don't seem a Pop schtick, he's got the mileage, and is clearly not playing well. Missing the first 2 of 6 games due to knee soreness is not a good sign.

Anyways, if they do a trade it will be to update the guard situation. I don't want to deviate this thread much, but the guard situation does put a ceiling on the team.

[sasaint]

I wouldnt consider it punting. Punting is trading LA for two 1st round picks with nothing to show for this yr.

What if they brought in a PG that can defend well and create, which would be a huge net postive on both ends over Parker? All while getting a PF that can defend just as well or better than LA but downside isnt an elite pick and popper or scorer?

Also, Gasol wld actually get to utilize his main value ( offense w/ ball more) as his usage wld increase now. This would help replace some O inside that Spurs wld lose.

Theyd lose LA, but theyd gain more at PG than they would lose at PF. Defending and creating from the perimeter is imo, more valuable in todays NBA than avg. D, great iso shooting from PF spot. Imo

Also, dont forget a pick too.

Its more complicated to quantify than " well we wont be bringing in a guy that made the All Star team so were punting."

And also don't forget that the hypothetical package you describe (PG, PF, pick) would likely not be nearly as good once this season ends.

Unlike you, however, I have no inside scoop and, therefore, doubt PATFO does something so completely contrary to their historic nature.

[sasaint]

That is a different subject so I will try to curb my essays and be brief: Tony and Manu are both done... c'est finit, past their expiration date. They have no business getting a lot of minutes for a true contender. Manu still competes on defense, but everything else is lacking... and we saw in the postseason that Dion Waiters ate him alive. He's 39 and shows. Tony knees don't seem a Pop schtick, he's got the mileage, and is clearly not playing well. Missing the first 2 of 6 games due to knee soreness is not a good sign.

Anyways, if they do a trade it will be to update the guard situation. I don't want to deviate this thread much, but the guard situation does put a ceiling on the team.

No need to curb yourself with me. I'll read your essays. So with your assessment you will soon agree that Kawhi is doomed to be the bridge - unless PATFO break out of their conservative mold and do something pretty radical. The development time for Murray, et al is too long for them to contribute quickly enough to save Kawhi from that fate. The answer is not to be found within the Spurs' system, so...

[Chinook]

Why would you if you were Boston? When you can just wait til the summer and sign him without giving any assets.

Because Boston can't afford to punt years away. There are multiple reasons to do the trade, but the salient one is that having LMA for a year is valuable. Even assuming he's signable the next year, you have one less year of Thomas and have an older Horford. LMA's on-court value goes down every year no matter how his contract looks, so you also have to consider that you're getting a worse player.

Thats one thing Melo and Knicks regret about not waiting a few months. He could have went to a stronger team had they all waited 6 months.

The Knicks weren't in position to make a win-now trade. They got screwed by not waiting, but they weren't doing anything regardless, because Felton, Chandler, Melo, Gallo and Mozgov isn't anything to sneeze at.

[MaNu4Tres]

Because Boston can't afford to punt years away.

1. They wouldn't be punting anything. They'd still be very compe ive, a top 4 seed in the East.

2. By waiting 3-7 months, they wouldn't be "punting years away". They'd just be waiting half a year.

[weebo]

Stupid topic. LMA isn't being traded mid-season or after the season. Trading him now is like telling the rest of the team and the NBA that "we're ok with just being compe ive and not really interested in winning a championship."

[raybies]

Another scenario that works is Amir Johnson, Jaylen Brown, and Marcus Smart. They would have to be desperate but I imagine they'd want no part in moving the Brooklyn first.

Smart/Patty/Nico/Parker(injured)
Green/Manu/Murray
Kawhi/Brown/Simmons
Johnson/Lee/Bertans
Pau/ Dedmon

You could trade LMA, Forbes, and Anderson.

I think this would make us a better defensive team. we could switch 1-3. Smart is a tough defender. He matched up against Lebron last night albeit some mixed results but he played him tough none the less. This trade also gives you depth for next year's team when manu inevitably retires, and Patty is as good as gone. You could compete now and still build for the future, with dat core. You take yourself out of free agency for big names but you play it safe with players with potential under contract.

Kawhitstorm has his NOLA scenario this is mine.

Thoughts? Indulge me.

[TD 21]

They first need to be absolutely certain that he wants out and will opt out and leave after year 3 before seriously engaging in trade talks. For all his flaws, he's still a top 15 (or 20 at the absolute worst) player, who's likely to age well. Suffice it to say, they're the most valuable assets and it's always highly unlikely to acquire another in a trade or get one anytime soon period.

Similar to when the Raptors traded Gay for 4 (mostly) veteran role players and immediately improved, it's possible the Spurs could do the same and only be slightly worse, but they'd lower their ceiling and eliminate any chance of beating an elite team in a series or attracting another star.

The better package would be 1 or 2 young players, that are already top 8 rotation players, with upside, that are either signed or can be to easily movable contracts, along with either a very good prospect or pick.

This is the type of team the Thunder have built. They're still a clear playoff team, have an elite player and a bunch of intriguing young players (some of which they could easily move to free up cap space if another elite player wanted to sign).

Since the next elite free agent that's open to or wants to move, can't go to the Warriors, Cavaliers or Clippers, the Spurs would figure to be a prime destination if they follow this path.

[Kawhitstorm]

If scoring is the only elite skill of your star player, you want his scoring to be a weapon to make teammates better. Aldridges' offense isn't that. Even Dirk made his teammates better because he could put pressure at the rim with his drives when faced with a hard close outs. Plus, he could extend his range from 3 point land w/ great volume to where it would make his TS% very high and valuable.

The difference b/w Dirk & Softridge besides the 3 point-line is that Dirk can score from anywhere on the floor, Softridge has a sweet-spot which is the left block. He isn't that effective from the right-block.

[Keepin' it real]

Ok, First off I'd like to apologize for another LMA trade thread, but I just had to get my thoughts out. I typically only write about things that sincerely interest me. So here is my science fiction like post about LMA and some thoughts and trade options.

Thoughts:
First off, watching Durant walk away for nothing should be a lesson to all decision makers. Sure on one hand you can keep it together for one last run and hope for the best, but if you fail, you risk losing a major piece for nothing. The effects of which can bring you down from a contender to a fringe playoff team like I believe OKC will ultimately become. This brings me to my first point. When you have a player that is homegrown and has those ties you can rest more peacefully at night because that's all they have known and you have a head start with relationships and favorable emotions. When we had Tim Duncan, we risked it all and banked on those relationships. And plus a guy like Duncan, you pretty much be crazy to trade. In our case, Duncan stayed and the rest was history. But Aldridge is different, he has no ties here. He signed as a free agent. He was not drafted by us. He has no fond memories of the past to fall back on when it hits the fan. Sure he talks up the organization but does it come off as insincere to anyone else but me around here. Does he really want to be here or is he here because nothing better was available. It's like being in a relationship because no-one better has arrived. You're not in love. In the end you either leave that person when you find someone else you love or you learn to love. I think the only way the latter happens is if we win the ship this year. But here's the problem. LMA's value is at it's highest right now because he has years on his deal and considering the current cap it's a bargain. So we risk a greater return for the lure of winning his affection. If we don't win, next year we'll have given teams with honest interest with assets the leverage needed to make a lesser bargain. You'd hope that a bidding war starts but then you have to take into account user preference. Where does LMA want to go. A class organization like the Spurs, can only salvage their image by appeasing his requests of location cause he's the one that has to resign. And I say salvage cause, how can a family org, that does things the right way, can't keep an FA, and that FA being the most important acquisition off the market in franchise history.

So you have to think from PATFO's perspective, is the juice worth the squeeze. Is he a player you want to risk possibly years of rebuilding for. Do you want to pay for his next max contract when it could exceed 30 mil(?Cap #s please). Is he the character that you want in the locker room or did you sign him for the same reason he signed with you. Are LMA and PATFO cuddle buddies, just not wanting to be alone and feel like someone is there. Did we sign him to remain relevant and extend the contender window or did you sign him because you believed he modeled your culture. Most know we sacrificed a lot for LMA. The built not bought moniker died. The beautiful game died. Wasn't that what are signature was?

You got to think about the future now. Right now San Antonio is a hot destination because of reputation. We are basically a living legend. The respect will never be higher imo. Pop is known as best coach in the game. The front office is seen with great regard to build contenders and a safe bet to succeed. And the organization is first class. Some believe that losing LMA would hurt our ability to sign FA's in the future but I disagree. Pop has at least four more years before he retires. He's coaching the next Olympic team for team USA. You have Kawhi as a centerpiece which is a legitimate MVP DPOY candidate but after that you have questions. Who will be the next Tony, Manu, Hill, or Kawhi. Is it Murray or Bertans? The time to build is now, because once Pop retires all bets are off. Then you hope we can hire the right minds. Will the same trust be there that is now when say an Ettore Messina is head coach and no experience is there. Is he the next Blatt. Man I hope we get Coach Bud back but I'm not gonna go on a tangent here. I'm sure we can get those C list players that can be B list players like say a Paul Millsap type. And we could probably unearth another Danny Green or Gary Neal, or maybe Jon Simmons. But we can safely assume we have a 3-4 year window before Pop is gone and how do you want to leave the franchise. Do you want to leave the franchise in rebuilding mode after a plan that was more short term than long term or do you want to already be on the rise with say a few pieces that are primed to enter their best stages of their career. Think about this cause this is what it is basically.

Some mention the Spurs conservative ways as keeping LMA but I'm here to say maybe it's more conservative to sell high and not risk losing him for nothing. IMO it's safer to start now long term wise. But could we remain compe ive now. Imo we can. I actually think Pau is a better offensive player than LMA even at his age. He can post and he can pass. LMA skill set killed the beautiful game, but maybe with the right pieces you could see it come back. Maybe I need to let it go. I think if you get a big back and a young prospect and a first you do it. So now that brings me to some trade scenarios.


In my mind there's only two places and that's Boston and Phoenix.

Phoenix is the obvious one because that's what our comp was during our courtship. Maybe he really wanted to go there but he played it safe. In Phoenix or Boston he would be the first option. Maybe that's what he wants.

In Phoenix the trade scenarios would center around

Brandon Knight/ Tyson Chandler with a Middle filler like Pj Tucker a young big like Chriss or Bender and a first for LMA and pieces like Forbes and/or Anderson

I do not like this deal at all because Tyson is on decline and both lock up money for a few years. Knight is not the playmaker you want out of a point guard. He's more a shooting guard.

So this brings us to where all the rumors began and that's in Boston.

In Boston a scenario might look like this

Amir Johnson with a couple young players with upside for LMA and Anderson.

Now Danny Ainge is one of the best at extracting players on good deals. He's not going to let us do him like we did Larry Legend. So with that being said, he's not going to want to part with that first round pick if we choose a certain player.

Alex Kennedy AlexKennedyNBA
Yesterday, Jaylen Brown said that he met with the Celtics, Bulls, Hawks, Timberwolves, Kings, Spurs and Rockets while at the NBA Combine.

For some reason, we managed to meet with Jaylen Brown at the combine, but why? Every mock had him in the lottery so why did we meet him. What made us think we could acquire him. Perhaps this LMA story is farther along in the organization then we know. This would explain the leak from Boston's side to weaken the trade value so that way they wouldn't have to give the first and Brown. Well that's one theory imo. I'm having fun.

Also with Amir on a one year deal you retain flexibility while acquiring a solid starter that would fit with your SL. With his salary off the books you could feasibly have some room to either resign your free agents or go after someone like a Serge Ibaka. And this kid Brown is very intellectual and can ball. He has potential to be a two way player. Pair that with Kawhi and you could have the best wing play in years to come.

Edit: So would you take Amir Johnson, Jaylen Brown, and Jerebko with Brooklyn's first for LMA and Anderson for example?
Jerebko is on a one year 5 million deal. More flexibility. Jackson wouldn't work.
I would.

[raybies]

They first need to be absolutely certain that he wants out and will opt out and leave after year 3 before seriously engaging in trade talks. For all his flaws, he's still a top 15 (or 20 at the absolute worst) player, who's likely to age well. Suffice it to say, they're the most valuable assets and it's always highly unlikely to acquire another in a trade or get one anytime soon period.

Similar to when the Raptors traded Gay for 4 (mostly) veteran role players and immediately improved, it's possible the Spurs could do the same and only be slightly worse, but they'd lower their ceiling and eliminate any chance of beating an elite team in a series or attracting another star.

The better package would be 1 or 2 young players, that are already top 8 rotation players, with upside, that are either signed or can be to easily movable contracts, along with either a very good prospect or pick.

This is the type of team the Thunder have built. They're still a clear playoff team, have an elite player and a bunch of intriguing young players (some of which they could easily move to free up cap space if another elite player wanted to sign).

Since the next elite free agent that's open to or wants to move, can't go to the Warriors, Cavaliers or Clippers, the Spurs would figure to be a prime destination if they follow this path.

How can they ever be sure he wants out? Body language, or just plain ask him? Durant gave no inclination and some players do that. I imagine it'd be the same for a guy like Aldridge. He's a low key guy. Kind of a separatist from the group from what we know.

My opinion from when he was asked about the trade rumors is that he made his choice and that he's here for now. I think he wants to see if something special can happen and if not he'll decide when he gets there. But he didn't sound committal. No clichés like I want to be here the rest of my career or anything like that. He has given no hints as to what he'll do and that should be alarming. In situations like this you hope to build relationships that encourage better deals and likelihood of starting put.

Anyways, I'm concerned is all. I'm just a fan and from my perspective, I don't like the vibes. Could just be who he is but then again Pop and RC probably have a great idea where he stands. They are exceptional evaluators and though not often we have made moves when we needed to or maybe better put had to. And I'm slowly coming to but you hope to put the best contending team or there with Pop, Tony, and Manus careers coming to a close. It just leaves you at a place where you risk retooling in a few years with nothing to show.

[TD 21]

How can they ever be sure he wants out? Body language, or just plain ask him? Durant gave no inclination and some players do that. I imagine it'd be the same for a guy like Aldridge. He's a low key guy. Kind of a separatist from the group from what we know.

My opinion from when he was asked about the trade rumors is that he made his choice and that he's here for now. I think he wants to see if something special can happen and if not he'll decide when he gets there. But he didn't sound committal. No clichés like I want to be here the rest of my career or anything like that. He has given no hints as to what he'll do and that should be alarming. In situations like this you hope to build relationships that encourage better deals and likelihood of starting put.

Anyways, I'm concerned is all. I'm just a fan and from my perspective, I don't like the vibes. Could just be who he is but then again Pop and RC probably have a great idea where he stands. They are exceptional evaluators and though not often we have made moves when we needed to or maybe better put had to. And I'm slowly coming to but you hope to put the best contending team or there with Pop, Tony, and Manus careers coming to a close. It just leaves you at a place where you risk retooling in a few years with nothing to show.

Durant was an exception to the rule. Every other superstar or star in recent memory, people outside the organization knew beforehand. Given that they're around him on a day to day basis, they should know.

He probably is undecided. I believe MaNu4Tres, because he's a longtime regular with no history that I'm aware of, of making things up or attempting to draw attention. But things can change and unless he's steadfast on wanting to be traded, it's unlikely he'd make a final decision on something over a year and a half in advance.

They definitely can't afford for him to walk in '18 with nothing to show for it. Great organization/culture only goes so far and lasts so long and it's not a destination city, so being able to sell a legit chance at a championship is even more paramount. A lot can change in 2 years, in sports, but right now all they'd have as a selling point is Leonard and that's not enough.

[Cklbmk]

Amir + smart + BKN 2017 pick for Aldridge or bust

[raybies]

Durant was an exception to the rule. Every other superstar or star in recent memory, people outside the organization knew beforehand. Given that they're around him on a day to day basis, they should know.

He probably is undecided. I believe MaNu4Tres, because he's a longtime regular with no history that I'm aware of, of making things up or attempting to draw attention. But things can change and unless he's steadfast on wanting to be traded, it's unlikely he'd make a final decision on something over a year and a half in advance.

They definitely can't afford for him to walk in '18 with nothing to show for it. Great organization/culture only goes so far and lasts so long and it's not a destination city, so being able to sell a legit chance at a championship is even more paramount. A lot can change in 2 years, in sports, but right now all they'd have as a selling point is Leonard and that's not enough.

Definitely agree about KL he's or only selling piece. You hope Murray can be the next Leonard and I say that in the aspect that he develops well or even a CoJo. RC said he wanted him to be the next Kawhi and I think he meant developed into a star. But your right two years is a long way. By that time Murray could be a starter with a promising future and then you just need a two way big and that is preferably. Who knows, maybe Simmons somehow becomes an elite player and I think that means elite roleplayer. I guess you really don't have to trade him now and hope you will one to keep the gipper. Very Spursy to slow play this out at least pro long the image long enough to where you can begin to see with more clarity.

[raybies]

Amir + smart + BKN 2017 pick for Aldridge or bust

I believe it's actually 2018 for the Brooklyn pick.

[Chinook]

I believe it's actually 2018 for the Brooklyn pick.

Nah. Marks will right the ship by then. This is the year they do a Lopez trade and really tank. Next summer, it's all free agents.