This team lacks a consistent second option

[MaNu4Tres]

Pau can't be moved until December - Chinook will know when. But I am not sure he has much value.

Trade Gasol to Dallas for Bogut and his expiring. Each player will fit better for their new team.

[Chinook]

None that they can spare. I mean the can spare their HOF veterans, but not if you are Pop. He's paying top dollar for those guys.

I am completely deflated about Pau, personally. Much as you have gone on about your disappointment with LMA, I am about to start disliking Pau. Incredibly skilled offensive big yes, nice passer, good shooter, but he's a traffic cone on defense and it bothers me.... It's one of those things where it does bother. Maybe he wasn't the right way to go in the off season. I hope to be wrong. I have been happy to be wrong about Lee for example, but I don't see it with Pau, yet.

I won't say anything about the young players they are all in different stages of development and in very cheap contracts and some are very young still. Some look better than others but Pop has said they are work in progress so that's that. I expect more of the veterans and the guys who have gotten paid $.

The Spurs are looking pretty bad in their on-off numbers this season so far. Pau has been abysmal there. LMA is currently a negative. Kawhi has actually been a solid negative defensively (assuming this has mostly to do with playing against starters), though he's a huge plus offensively. Anderson has been a net negative. Parker's been otherworldly in how bad he is on both sides.

On the plus side, Simmons has been an unreal positive on defense. Mills has been tremendous offensively. Dedmon's been very strong defensively. For as badly as Manu is playing, he's eking out a positive net rating, while Lee is doing a great job as a defensive plus, despite being almost neutral offensively.

There should be an obvious trend there that isn't profound for anyone who's watched the Spurs: The starters have been outperformed while the bench has been great.

[SAGirl]

Spurs stayed WAAAY to late at the parade with Manu and Tony. One can only hope that Tony will do the honorable thing at season's end and retire. Frankly the roster only has a handful (well, 4) of guys that I definitely want to have beyond this season: Kawhi (obviously), Danny, Patty, Deadman. Maybe another one or two of the young guys can become a good rotational piece (not just a body in the rotation), but I have my doubts.

I honestly believe if PATFO hadn't become so enamored with LMA, the team could have mad a "controlled descent" into playoff-but-not-championship-contender by adding a couple of very good rotational pieces the last two off-seasons and would now be prepared to be a serious contender again next season. (I know that is heresy to the "win TD one last ring" crowd, but it was the better organizational move.)

How do you spell "bridge"? Or maybe it's just a bridge of sighs...

They were committed to keep on trying to win with their aged group surrounding a younger crew. It worked for them in the past. But TD fell off a cliff once his one good knee went south and to me, both Tony and Manu went right behind him. The emotional aspect cannot be understated. You heard RC practically in tears (understandably) then Pop saying it would have been like being cut into a thousand pieces to lose Manu that same season too.

We are watching what's hopefully the retirement tour for Manu, and Tony I don't even know what to say about his expectations to keep playing.

We shall see. If they get better defensively they have a better team than last season IMO, it's the downgrade defensively together with Tony and Manu looking done that is the problem. It would be a bit ironic and in bad humor that one season was lost bc Tim's wheels came off a d the other bc they were Manu's... The Porker crew would say Tony hasn't had wheels since sometime in 2014.

[Chinook]

Pau can't be moved until December - Chinook will know when. But I am not sure he has much value.

It should just be 12/15 like usual. I think he's definitely moveable, but it would have to be for a large contract signed by other the last couple of off-seasons that teams are regretting, like Bazemore or anyone Portland's signed recently besides McCollum. Next off-season, it wouldn't be hard to move him at all, I don't think.

[SAGirl]

Trade Gasol to Dallas for Bogut and his expiring. Each player will fit better for their new team.

I'd do it.

[Chinook]

Trade Gasol to Dallas for Bogut and his expiring. Each player will fit better for their new team.

No Gasol and incentives to Portland for Harkless and Plumlee?

[TD 21]

Spurs don't win in 2014 without Kawhi taking over in Games 3-5. If not for Lebron cramping, Spurs go down 0-2; they looked like the inferior team at that point. Then Leonard broke out and the Spurs dominated from there. That counts as a "put the team on your back" performance.

I said as the undisputed best player. As in, when the defense is geared to stop him. Leonard didn't "put the team on his back" because no one had to, with them playing probably the best team basketball ever.

You're making a classic mistake. If the Heat win game 1 (and they might not have, even had James not cramped), the Spurs likely would have approached game 2 with a game 7 level of desperation.

-Kawhi averaged 28 ppg against OKC last regular season

-He was the main reason why the Spurs won the home game against Cavs last season, on the road he was 7-15 .429 3P% 7-8 FTs 6 rbs 2 asts 24 points

-In the two wins against the Clippers last season, he averaged 19.5 ppg in .50 FG%, and he didn't play in the loss in L.A.

-Sure, one of his home-game against GSW wasn't pretty but he was the only Spur playing well at the Oracle last season in the two games there

I would say he looked really good against elite last season.




If you think that the Spurs would have won game 3 against OKC in last playoffs without Kawhi taking over...

And if they wouldn't have stopped feeding him in game 5, .57 FG% 26 points, if they wouldn't have called those two P&Rs between Parker (4-12) and LMA (6-21) instead of going with him, the series would have changed.

Kawhi has improved every year in the postseason, he was horrible in the last 2 games of 2015 playoffs but his last playoffs were way better.

Except for his 3P%, he increased every offensive stat from the regular season to playoffs, ppg, apg, 2P%...

I don't care what he averaged. As the lead option, playing the most minutes, he's going to average a certain amount almost by default, like anyone in that position.

The only game against an elite that I can think of where he put the team on his back and led them to victory, was a home game versus the Thunder.

Game 3 against the Thunder last season was a collective effort down the stretch, with Parker playing a surprisingly good 4th quarter.

Overall, Leonard was very good in the series, but game 1 was a collective effort too. It's only been 2 playoffs, but he doesn't have a single signature win as the go to guy under his belt and the 2 series they lost were very winnable.

[MaNu4Tres]

No Gasol and incentives to Portland for Harkless and Plumlee?

You know I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.

[YGWHI]

Game 3 against the Thunder last season was a collective effort down the stretch, with Parker playing a surprisingly good 4th quarter.

Most Spurs wins since 2013 have been collective efforts and Parker wasn't looking washed in a playoffs game is a plus...But Kawhi scored 14 points in the 4th quarter of game 3.

He took over that game with his offense and his crucial FTs...

[Chinook]

You know I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.

Yeah. I don't know if Portland would do it. Harkless and Plumee are both expendable, and having another go-to offensive option would help them. But they hate the Spurs with a fiery passion, so even if the deal where good to them, I think they'd reject it out of spite.

Was going to say that maybe the team could sub Crabbe for Harkless, but then I saw Allen's contract. Holy sticks, that's bad. Maybe Harkless and Leonard for Gasol, Simmons and a first?

[sasaint]

They were committed to keep on trying to win with their aged group surrounding a younger crew. It worked for them in the past. But TD fell off a cliff once his one good knee went south and to me, both Tony and Manu went right behind him. The emotional aspect cannot be understated. You heard RC practically in tears (understandably) then Pop saying it would have been like being cut into a thousand pieces to lose Manu that same season too.

We are watching what's hopefully the retirement tour for Manu, and Tony I don't even know what to say about his expectations to keep playing.

We shall see. If they get better defensively they have a better team than last season IMO, it's the downgrade defensively together with Tony and Manu looking done that is the problem. It would be a bit ironic and in bad humor that one season was lost bc Tim's wheels came off a d the other bc they were Manu's... The Porker crew would say Tony hasn't had wheels since sometime in 2014.

Yeah, I know the company line. My advice to Pop and RC is: If you want to get gooey and sentimental, spend some time with your wives. I also understand that what the Spurs hope is that their sense of family/loyalty is what will set the organization apart. However loyalty to the point of self-destruction is not commendable.

Let's see what their emotions are like at the end of this season...

[sasaint]

Yeah. I don't know if Portland would do it. Harkless and Plumee are both expendable, and having another go-to offensive option would help them. But they hate the Spurs with a fiery passion, so even if the deal where good to them, I think they'd reject it out of spite.

Was going to say that maybe the team could sub Crabbe for Harkless, but then I saw Allen's contract. Holy sticks, that's bad. Maybe Harkless and Leonard for Gasol, Simmons and a first?

I have coveted MLeonard since his rookie season, even though he has been bit by the injury bug and has not touched the ceiling I projected for him.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah. I don't know if Portland would do it. Harkless and Plumee are both expendable, and having another go-to offensive option would help them. But they hate the Spurs with a fiery passion, so even if the deal where good to them, I think they'd reject it out of spite.

Was going to say that maybe the team could sub Crabbe for Harkless, but then I saw Allen's contract. Holy sticks, that's bad. Maybe Harkless and Leonard for Gasol, Simmons and a first?

Neil Olshey actually has nothing against the Spurs, unlike the guy before him who had a hard-on to the Spurs ( Pritchard).

I'd prefer Gasol & Murray for Harkless, Festus.


Spurs could have just signed both this past summer. They could have offered Harkless 4/50 and went after Festus with the rest.

[sasaint]

Neil Olshey actually has nothing against the Spurs, unlike the guy before him who had a hard-on to the Spurs ( Pritchard).

I'd prefer Gasol & Murray for Harkless, Festus.


Spurs could have just signed both this past summer. They could have offered Harkless 4/50 and went after Festus with the rest.

But, but, but what about "the quintessential Spur" Pau Gasol?

[Chinook]

Neil Olshey actually has nothing against the Spurs, unlike the guy before him who had a hard-on to the Spurs ( Pritchard).

I'd prefer Gasol & Murray for Harkless, Festus.


Spurs could have just signed both this past summer. They could have offered Harkless 4/50 and went after Festus with the rest.

I'd prefer that trade too, but I don't think it's workable. Ezeli likely has more value to them right now, and I doubt Murray has more than Simmons. So it would be harder for me to see how the Blazers could make the deal. They'd have so much money tied up in mediocre guys when they're already looking at tax .

Also, the Blazers still have the LMA thing to hate the Spurs over.

[Chinook]

But, but, but what about "the quintessential Spur" Pau Gasol?

Pau will be fine. I don't like the idea of trading him without getting back yet another offense-first player. Harkless and Ezeli would improve the defense, but the basic issue with the Spurs not being able to score reliably in multiple ways still stands.

[MaNu4Tres]

But, but, but what about "the quintessential Spur" Pau Gasol?

Never wanted him. Value was only tied offensively and his offense wasn't even that great.. I take that back some of his value was tied to just his name too.

[sasaint]

Never wanted him. Value was only tied offensively and his offense wasn't even that great.. I take that back some of his value was tied to just his name too.

Yep, Pau got here a few years too late. He would have worked well alongside TD prior to last season. I believe a big reason that the Spurs pursued both LMA and Pau was simply because the world believed they had the cachet to attract big names when they never had before. Heady liquor for some...

[sasaint]

Pau will be fine. I don't like the idea of trading him without getting back yet another offense-first player. Harkless and Ezeli would improve the defense, but the basic issue with the Spurs not being able to score reliably in multiple ways still stands.

We will just have to disagree about Pau and hope for the best for the Spurs. But I am with SAGirl on this one. (Of course, I was with her on Kyle, too )

[MaNu4Tres]

Pau will be fine. I don't like the idea of trading him without getting back yet another offense-first player. Harkless and Ezeli would improve the defense, but the basic issue with the Spurs not being able to score reliably in multiple ways still stands.

Harkless and Ezeli would improve the offense more than you think. Not saying their go- to players, but they're skillsets as secondary role players on the offensive end benefits everyone around them. I can argue how they'd benefit the offense more than Gasol.

Then again this is a hypothetical that has less than 1% chance of happening, so there's really no point getting that deep into that.

[SAGirl]

Pau will be fine. I don't like the idea of trading him without getting back yet another offense-first player. Harkless and Ezeli would improve the defense, but the basic issue with the Spurs not being able to score reliably in multiple ways still stands.

And I would like that scoring to come from a guard, not from a big that's going to take post up opportunities from LMA, or even Kiwi.... They will never maximize Pau offensively. It's on another thread! Meanwhile, Parker, what does he do? Parked in a corner?

And Pau and Tony together on defense

[SAGirl]

We will just have to disagree about Pau and hope for the best for the Spurs. But I am with SAGirl on this one. (Of course, I was with her on Kyle, too )

Not going to say much on Kyle bc he's playing a role next to high usage players who really don't move the ball all that much, and there are stars there that got to feed and carry the team. More than anything, I have been disappointed he hasn't been shooting the 3 as willingly as he needs to, specially bc he's shown he can shoot. Ill just wait for the season to develop more and him to go back to a bench role and what they thought he'd really be doing for the season a d I do bet he'd still need to be more willing to shoot. We shall just see. He can't disappear in the bench.

[Chinook]

Who the is this poster:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...8288#p49878288

Worst trade idea I've seen in years.

[Kawhitstorm]

Even Aldridge, who's never been anointed a top 10, let alone 2 player, had a single Trail Blazers team as good as the '15 and '16 Spurs and is supposedly "soft" and a "choker", has one of the those playoff series ('14 WCQF) on his resume.

Softridge went off against Terrance Jones then shot below 40% in 3 of the last 4 games including 3-12 for 8 points in Gm 5.

[Kawhitstorm]

Spurs could have just signed both this past summer. They could have offered Harkless 4/50 and went after Festus with the rest.

Ezeli's knees might be toast, dude hasn't played a minute this season & he has been out for extended period every season since his rookie year. That's probably why nobody wanted to touch him this past summer.

Trade Gasol to Dallas for Bogut and his expiring. Each player will fit better for their new team.

Even if he's a better fit, I'm not sure that Bogut is going to move the needle. The PnR defense is still going to be ty & teams are going to pack the paint if Porker/Bogut are together on the floor, considering that would be a good chunk of their minutes the offense is going to suffer. The net rating isn't going to change much unless Patty is starting & getting illegal screens from Bogut who would also watch his back on defense.