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  1. #51
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    Still, you were a nice bellwether. Definitely knew that Trump wasn't going to be able to alienate enough people to swing the election. You point blank asked me about whether people would vote on their minority status over issues like the economy, and I was wrong.

    But yeah, let's fix the problems. I hope we vote for Trump again in four years, since that will almost certainly mean he's done a good job. He's not winning in 2020 off being an outsider.
    bellwether? - I was out working very hard for the Trump campaign - I practice what I preach to my kids (don't give up, give your best effort). You'd think that you guys would be glad to be rid of me since my opinions are anathema to most - instead I'm hearing bellwether, abandonment, etc - next time I'll give plenty of advance notice (sarcasm) - here - I'll be gone mid Dec to mid Jan when dd comes home.

  2. #52
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    Yes, as in a reliable indicator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellwether

    I should have believed you were more in touch with how your groups felt that I was.

  3. #53
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    Repugs won't fix problems for the 99%.

    Look at their legislative output, federal and state, for the past 6 or so years.

    What problems did they solve?

    And what problems do you think there are and that the Repugs will fix?
    I'm as disgusted at the Republicans' inaction as you, but you do know that Obama had that little thing called a veto - neither side was interested in working with each other - hopefully that'll change come Jan.

    1. Lower the corporate tax rate (so companies won't leave the country) and amnesty (at discount) the trillions parked abroad on the condition that the money creates jobs.
    2. Repeal and replace Obamacare with GOP's health plan (https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_asse...olicyPaper.pdf)
    3. Lift the rules and regulations handcuffing (small) businesses.
    4. Strictly enforce e-verify and severely fine any business that hires illegals - get rid of sanctuary cities.
    5. Allow every child to go to any public school within state - stress computer classes from middle school on to prepare for the upcoming technology advances.
    6. Training for adults to prepare for upcoming technology advances.

  4. #54
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    How could this happen? Every pollster wrong?
    all within margin of error

  5. #55
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    I'm as disgusted at the Republicans' inaction as you, but you do know that Obama had that little thing called a veto - neither side was interested in working with each other - hopefully that'll change come Jan.

    1. Lower the corporate tax rate (so companies won't leave the country) and amnesty (at discount) the trillions parked abroad on the condition that the money creates jobs.
    2. Repeal and replace Obamacare with GOP's health plan (https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_asse...olicyPaper.pdf)
    3. Lift the rules and regulations handcuffing (small) businesses.
    4. Strictly enforce e-verify and severely fine any business that hires illegals - get rid of sanctuary cities.
    5. Allow every child to go to any public school within state - stress computer classes from middle school on to prepare for the upcoming technology advances.
    6. Training for adults to prepare for upcoming technology advances.
    I'm a fan of 6, and I can understand 3 and 4. Willing to try 2, but wary of 1.

    But do you really think 5 is practical? Does that come with the state paying for transportation so that every child actually CAN go to any school? Otherwise, don't you think that it gives a massive advantage to kids whose parents have the means to send them to good schools or kids whose families live close enough to good schools? And that doesn't even get into things like quotas.

  6. #56
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    Yes, as in a reliable indicator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellwether

    I should have believed you were more in touch with how your groups felt that I was.
    Sorry, I thought you were implying sticking around only in good times - not that being a Trump supporter had much good times on this board - gosh, I remember when you all criticizing my continued support of Trump after the video tape was released. I hope you guys didn't pile on ducks too much while I was gone. Wonder where he is.

  7. #57
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    Sorry, I thought you were implying sticking around only in good times - not that being a Trump supporter had much good times on this board - gosh, I remember when you all criticizing my continued support of Trump after the video tape was released. I hope you guys didn't pile on ducks too much while I was gone. Wonder where he is.
    He got plenty of crap, but he was here last night to see us eat crow. Probably in recovery now. As I've been saying since the results came in, the biggest takeaway should be that we all need to get out there and talk to people more, especially those who disagree with us. If we hadn't been so comfortable with our own cliques, it would have been more obvious where the country was on this election.

  8. #58
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    4. Strictly enforce e-verify and severely fine any business that hires illegals - get rid of sanctuary cities.
    Severely fine? Why not jail?

  9. #59
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    Severely fine? Why not jail?
    Repugs don't jail Repugs businessmen and Repug rurals who hire illegals.

    Repugs didn't do anything about immigration 2001-2008, and won't do anything now.

    Trash's "wall" typifies the Repugs' immigration con job as nothing but an campaign topic

  10. #60
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    I'm a fan of 6, and I can understand 3 and 4. Willing to try 2, but wary of 1.

    But do you really think 5 is practical? Does that come with the state paying for transportation so that every child actually CAN go to any school? Otherwise, don't you think that it gives a massive advantage to kids whose parents have the means to send them to good schools or kids whose families live close enough to good schools? And that doesn't even get into things like quotas.
    Florida will be allowing every child to go to any public school (non-magnet, non-charter) next year. Transportation provided by parents (would be a scheduling nightmare if provided by govt) but it would allow for child going to any school along your way to work or in relatives' neighborhoods or near work. Schools would have to give preference to its own neighborhood kids and if there's space, open up to others. I know it's not ideal but it would give kids/parents SOME choice. Iirc, our kids have free bus/rail pass to get to (magnet) schools - same would apply to these kids.

    I would also like to see funds allocated for computer and internet connection for low-income kids who could choose to do online, virtual high and middle school at home.

  11. #61
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    Severely fine? Why not jail?
    That way you get money from them instead of government spending money to house/feed them.

  12. #62
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    "free bus/rail pass"

    free?

    "school choice" is code word for resegregation, is why it's so popular is slave states.





  13. #63
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    He got plenty of crap, but he was here last night to see us eat crow. Probably in recovery now. As I've been saying since the results came in, the biggest takeaway should be that we all need to get out there and talk to people more, especially those who disagree with us. If we hadn't been so comfortable with our own cliques, it would have been more obvious where the country was on this election.
    I commend your take on exposure to others' opinions. That's why I'm here - to get the other side and learn - although sometimes it's hard to take the name-calling, insults :-)

  14. #64
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    "free bus/rail pass"

    free?

    "school choice" is code word for resegregation, is why it's so popular is slave states.




    why do you say "resegregation"? If you have choice to go to any school (even across county lines), you could go anywhere as long as there's space. Then the schools will be competing for students and bad schools will lose enrollment/money and either shape up or ship out.

    We have a magnet school called MAST on Key Biscayne. Kids come from all over the county and they get a Metro-Rail pass to get to a certain location where a bus picks them up and takes them to school. Picking up all over the county - crisscrossing is not practical.

  15. #65
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    That way you get money from them instead of government spending money to house/feed them.
    The money will be a slap on the wrist like it always is.

  16. #66
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    why do you say "resegregation"? If you have choice to go to any school (even across county lines), you could go anywhere as long as there's space. Then the schools will be competing for students and bad schools will lose enrollment/money and either shape up or ship out.
    you really don't have a clue.

  17. #67
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    Florida will be allowing every child to go to any public school (non-magnet, non-charter) next year. Transportation provided by parents (would be a scheduling nightmare if provided by govt) but it would allow for child going to any school along your way to work or in relatives' neighborhoods or near work. Schools would have to give preference to its own neighborhood kids and if there's space, open up to others. I know it's not ideal but it would give kids/parents SOME choice. Iirc, our kids have free bus/rail pass to get to (magnet) schools - same would apply to these kids.

    I would also like to see funds allocated for computer and internet connection for low-income kids who could choose to do online, virtual high and middle school at home.
    As you may remember, education is my top political issue (with healthcare being the only thing that's remotely close), so I'm in favor of disrupting the status quo a bit (and can get behind the remote learning thing for extreme cases).

    However, I'm predisposed to panning any measure that doesn't focus on improving the general quality of education for all schools. Austin or maybe Texas at large started something like that Florida is about to do when I was in high school. However the mobility was only available to kids who went to schools that failed to meet the test quotas. I'm not quite sure how it's working out; I had cousins who used their transfers to go to the fine arts magnet school across town, and they didn't do well there.

    I went to a high school that was half Gates grants and half "urban" as far as its culture goes. And it was at that tender time when they were still pumping money into the school (they ended up stopping that the year after I graduated), so I got to have a bunch of great opportunities that led to an Ivy League scholarship for and some great universities for a lot of my friends. You don't get the same type of opportunities if you're bused to a school across town with more money but that's harder to make inroads into. You're a JAG there, possibly not finishing near the top of your class, behind trying to make a sports team or club team. Even if that doesn't hurt your college prospects (it does), it makes school life less rewarding.

    Maybe the above was just a stupid anecdote. So to restate, for me the questions are these: How do you help the kid who wants or has to make it work where they are; and how do you prevent a situation where the best schools are so compe ive that they don't start hurting the students that are middle of the pack there but would stand out at other, less compe ive schools?

  18. #68
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I commend your take on exposure to others' opinions. That's why I'm here - to get the other side and learn - although sometimes it's hard to take the name-calling, insults :-)
    Yeah, there are awful people on both sides, and on this side, it's often easier to get away with being awful due to being surrounding by like-minded individuals. People who come with open minds and respectful at udes should be treated in kind. Hopefully it's easier now that the world-view for many of us is going to have to shift to match the current reality. Somehow, I doubt it will be a smooth process for some.

  19. #69
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    Bernie stans are almost as delusional as Kobe stans. Americans would sooner vote for an evangelical Bible-thumper, a Muslim, or an atheist than a socialist:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/so...appealing.aspx

  20. #70
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    Bernie stans are almost as delusional as Kobe stans. Americans would sooner vote for an evangelical Bible-thumper, a Muslim, or an atheist than a socialist:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/so...appealing.aspx
    that's because in Americans' total propagandized ignorance, and due to rigthwing bull , socialism is defined exclusively as Marxist/Leninist communism, and more recently Chavez' VZ.

    Bernie is a democratic socialist, or social democrat.

    Canada, Japan, and Western Europe social democracies are much better off, more civilized, more humanitarian than USA's ed up corporatocracy/oligarchy.

    Americans are completely ignorant of "corporate welfare socialism" where taxpayers take all the risks and their $Ts pay for corporate failures, tax avoidance/evasions, bailouts.

    And even if Americans really understood how corporate socialism is fleecing them, they couldn't do anything about stopping it. eg, in their ignorance, they vote in a corrupt, failed, tax-evading, pussy grabbing businessman.

  21. #71
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Bernie stans are almost as delusional as Kobe stans. Americans would sooner vote for an evangelical Bible-thumper, a Muslim, or an atheist than a socialist:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/so...appealing.aspx
    I think we're well past putting any stock into the idea of "would vote for"

  22. #72
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    I think we're well past putting any stock into the idea of "would vote for"
    The most reliable voters all grew up during the Cold War. It's just common sense - they're not voting for a self-proclaimed socialist who praised Castro, lived on a Communist kibbutz, has a history of being involved in radical-leftist parties, etc.

    Don't forget: Bernie was treated with kid gloves by everyone during the primary. He was barely vetted, because Hillary wanted his voters in the general and the GOP wanted to run against him. If he made it that far, the attack ads would have come fast and furious and derailed his campaign.

  23. #73
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    Yep. If the term "reluctant majority" isn't a term yet, it will be.
    Maybe that, but from I can see around the world, people are pissed at this so called minorities wanting approvals and all sort of privileges. Often this doesn`t go with logic, it`s like who shouts most. Normal people, who trully doesn`t care about other reglion, race and being labeled as racists, phobic etc, because they don`t approve that chase for privileges. And also with internet all around, people are seeing what bull media are serving them. Wikileaks also added some fuel to fire. And those pissed people, who can`t say publictly (public pollings were dead wrong), because of this labeling, just went to voting booths and elected Trump, voted for Brexit. Germany, France are next, whenever people will have chance to express their frustration on how things are going. Same thing went in Poland. Same socialdemocratic party, which had all pollings high, lost, because people were pissed at how the goverment didn`t care about working class.

    And this frustation is big, because electing Trump and voting for Brexit isn`t good choice, but hey, I do understand that, and the world will change.

  24. #74
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    The most reliable voters all grew up during the Cold War. It's just common sense - they're not voting for a self-proclaimed socialist who praised Castro, lived on a Communist kibbutz, has a history of being involved in radical-leftist parties, etc.

    Don't forget: Bernie was treated with kid gloves by everyone during the primary. He was barely vetted, because Hillary wanted his voters in the general and the GOP wanted to run against him. If he made it that far, the attack ads would have come fast and furious and derailed his campaign.
    I'll never root against the GOP political machine. Too much experience seeing it in action. But I don't think "Commie Bernie" as I assume he would have been called would have stuck in the craws of Americans like the Hilary investigation did. But who knows?

  25. #75
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    I'll never root against the GOP political machine. Too much experience seeing it in action. But I don't think "Commie Bernie" as I assume he would have been called would have stuck in the craws of Americans like the Hilary investigation did. But who knows?
    It's not only that - he also had those weird-ass essays he wrote about rape and child sex and his vote against the Amber Alert system. No doubt, the GOP would be running those wall-to-wall all election.

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