Game Grades Nov. 9 Rockets at Spurs-L

[GSH]

Looks like they are tanking this season - just with an old guy who will opt in and keep them in the tank next season, too.

LMAO. Not exactly the way I envisioned it, but it could sure turn out that way.

Speaking of Pau opting in. I didn't expect him to be Tim Duncan, but I really thought he would play better than this. If things keep going this way, maybe Pop moving him to the bench would piss him off enough to move on next year.

[sasaint]

LMAO. Not exactly the way I envisioned it, but it could sure turn out that way.

Speaking of Pau opting in. I didn't expect him to be Tim Duncan, but I really thought he would play better than this. If things keep going this way, maybe Pop moving him to the bench would piss him off enough to move on next year.

Win-win, no?

[itzsoweezee]

Lapro played great. Manu was terrible. Simmons should've gotten more minutes.

[SAGirl]

Lapro played great. Manu was terrible. Simmons should've gotten more minutes.

I agree... I really didn't like Manu and TBH I haven't liked Manu at all this season. If I am even more honest I think he takes development opportunities from younger players who have talent and he's not going to move the needle here nor there. But I threw a bone to his fans and his way, same way some guys have thrown a bone to a guy I like who hasn't been exactly playing well... I curved grades so that if the player helped in some way conmensurate with what one expects they more or less came out to a C.. so I had to reward Manu for his effort. One cannot doubt he tries...

I may incite the ire of many and a lot of trolling if I take that any further... but yes, I agree Manu has been bad.

[YGWHI]

Thanks for the grades, girl! Nice work!

For some criticism on the grades that I read, we should understand that the grades are views of the game/players' performances influenced by subjective and personal interpretations.

That's why I never criticize them, I just thanks for the time and the work because I enjoy reading other people's view, even if I don't agree with them.

Kawhi: B He will have to learn that he can score 30 points and will still end up losing games by freezing out other guys and reducing the chances that they can help him.

I think that some people are expecting an evolution of Kawhi's game in a way that's not natural for him. He's a scorer, an-Iso/Mid-j scorer.

He's not a point-forward and we can't excpect he turns into full LeBron, we should look at his game more at a more efficient Kobe's type.

In this league, especially against Western Conference backcourts, it's pretty obvious that Kawhi needs a consistent playmaker around him. He can't do it all and needs help.
Sadly, the Spurs don't have that guy. Our two best playmakers are a 39 years old and a starting point guard who's past his prime.

And the Spurs' off-season's decisions didn't fill this big whole.

All of this makes me depressed, but also sad. Many of us loved rooting for a team with several good - if not "first" - options.

So you didn't watch the Spurs in their almost a seven years of Tim's 4-down. They didn't have that many options until Parker/Manu improvements in 2005.

Manu, Parker and Kawhi were steals. You dont win 5 rings with only one great player.

On these times of superteams, except LMA, I wonder where are the prime Parker/Manu of Kawhi...Tim had two elite guards, top 5 in the league at their positions.

don't really like this Kobe version of him, taking 20+ shots game after game while having more turnovers than assists and collecting accolades of the best defensive player, or the best two way player in the league.

Really? Kawhi averages 3.1 apg and 1.8 tpg.

He increased his USG% and apg this season (2.6 last season) but his TO per game looks almost identical to last season (1.5)

That makes him so unique in the league, there aren't many players increasing FGA,USG% and PPG, and still keeping TO that low.

One criticism I have with Pop is that if his shooters are not getting shots.

What's about his late-game decisions? Just to give the ball to Kawhi?. Most of times it have worked cause Kawhi is great at it, but where are the 'elaborated' plays to help him?

-4 and Kawhi got a bucket, -2 and Kawhi missed the last shot.

But even when that last Kawhi's play was really good because he didn't set for a jumper, instead of that he was strong driving, attacking the hoop, every play Pop called in order to close the game was an Iso-play.

Where are the screens to help Kawhi, where is a play that move the ball to find Kawhi in a better position to get the bucket? It's just Kawhi trying to figure out how to win the game by himself.

And then most people criticize Kawhi's Kobe-form. For real, guys?? That's the way that Pop plays him now.

Also, in the last 6 seasons, I can't remember a game where Pop called a successful play to win a close game.

[Seventyniner]

That's a little strong. Actually, that's a lot strong. As much recognition as Tim got, he was still under-rated by most. But... the team still has to put 5 players on the floor for 48 minutes a night. The Spurs' FO managed put winning teams together, on a small-market budget. And they managed to never have a rebuilding year (or two, or three) for the entire Tim Duncan era. That part is freaking amazing, if not unprecedented.

Tim carried the team, no doubt. And people are starting to get a better understanding of that. But in the age of the salary cap, the Spurs FO gave him an incredibly consistent supporting cast. One of the biggest things we are seeing is the result of the Spurs investing heavily in the last few years of Tim's career, in an attempt to keep that consistency going and give him another chance to carry them to one more Championship. After the near-miss in '13, and the Championship in '14, they pretty much had to keep it together to try and repeat.

The point is, the FO made a BUNCH of great moves for almost two decades. Then in the last few years, they pretty much did what they had to do. This year, they pretty much took what they could get.

Good stuff. For a counterexample that further proves your point, look at KG's tenure in Minnesota. KG wasn't as good as Tim but he was easily good enough to make the WCF more than once with even decent FO work.

[SAGirl]

Hey YGWHI!

I think these early season experiments with Kiwi are a necessity. He needs to take over late in games. I am sure all of these growing pains are aimed at the postseason. It's things Pop will look at with him and then decide upon adjustments. I suspect heavily that what we see is indeed Pop's wish in the sense that he wants Kawhi to use all of those possessions to refine and improve decision making, etc. Even if he's not a point forward (and I agree he's not) he's going to have the ball late in the game to take his shots, but also decide on his own when it's better to pass out of a bad shot situation. It's a process I guess.

I actually agree that Pop's system has been clunky. I suppose lack of chemistry, all the different new faces he's added, guys in and out of lineups with roles that change constantly, etc all of that affects chemistry. Kawhi himself has been consistent, but others around him are still finding their roles and shots. It's a good point. I would expect Pop to address that with time, specially deciding how they are going to use Pau. He's kind of going underutilized and they paid too much to not take advantage of him as best they can.

[YGWHI]

LMA: D

He started with his jumpshot not falling, and he didn't really seem to get going at any point. I only remember one of his 5 baskets as a putback from a KA miss. I don't even remember LMA other baskets, he didn't seem to impact this game offensively. He didn't rebound like he needs to either, but in fairness to him, Pop had him out in the perimeter a whole lot. He fouled two 3 pt shooters at the 3 point line, and missed the putback that would have tied the game at the end. Just an overall bad game from LMA. He did some things on defense with 2 steals and a block, and he did try to get others involved thus his 2 assists (but 3 TO), but overall he didn't play like a star.

Having said that LMA should be contributing a whole lot more and as of now, agree that RC Buford may have made a mistake on this one.

It wasn't a mistake because the Spurs did what any other team would do, to sign the best FA in the market.

But they sacrificed depth and didn't fill the biggest/immediate needs.

However, this same Iso-Mid-range shooting offense won 67 games last season, maybe they tought they didn't need to make great moves.

Also, it seems like LMA was bringing more energy last season...That's why I wonder how much those 'false' rumors affected the team-chemistry.

LMA's and Kawhi's body language, at least on court, together, don't look great....
Last season I blamed Pop for it. He didn't play a two-man game between these two guys, didn't design plays involving the two but this season they look even worse than last year...

[sasaint]

Thanks for the grades, girl! Nice work!

For some criticism on the grades that I read, we should understand that the grades are views of the game/players' performance influenced by subjective and personal interpretations.

That's why I never criticize them, I just thanks for the time and the work because I enjoy reading other people's view, even if I don't agree with them.




I think that some people are expecting an evolution of Kawhi's game in a way that's not natural for him. He's a scorer, an-Iso/Mid-j scorer.

He's not a point-forward and we can't excpect he turns into full LeBron, we should look at his game more at a more efficient Kobe's type.

In this league, especially against Western Conference backcourts, it's pretty obvious that Kawhi needs a consistent playmaker around him. He can't do it all and needs help.
Sadly, the Spurs don't have that guy. Our two best playmakers are a 39 years old and a starting point guard who's past his prime.

And the Spurs' off-season's decisions didn't fill this big whole.


So you didn't watch the Spurs in their almost a seven years of Tim's 4-down. They didn't have that many options until Parker/Manu improvements in 2005.


On these times of superteams, except LMA, I wonder where are the prime Parker/Manu of Kawhi...Tim had two elite guards, top 5 in the league at their positions.


Really? Kawhi averages 3.1 apg and 1.8 tpg.

He increased his USG% and apg this season (2.6 last season) but his TO per game looks almost identical to last season (1.5)

That makes him so unique in the league, there aren't many players increasing FGA,USG% and PPG, and still keeping TO that low.


What's about his late-game decisions? Just to give the ball to Kawhi?. Most of times it have worked cause Kawhi is great at it, but where are the 'elaborated' plays to help him?

-4 and Kawhi got a bucket, -2 and Kawhi missed the last shot.

But even when that last Kawhi's play was really good because he didn't set for a jumper, instead of that he was strong driving, attacking the hoop, every play Pop called in order to close the game was an Iso-play.

Where are the screens to help Kawhi, where is a play that move the ball to find Kawhi in a better position to get the bucket? It's just Kawhi trying to figure out how to win the game by himself.

And then most people criticize Kawhi's Kobe-form. For real, guys?? That's the way that Pop plays him now.

Also, in the last 6 seasons, I can't remember a game where Pop called a successful play to win a close game.

You got me. I didn't really begin following the Spurs until I moved to San Antonio in 2003. The arrival of Tony and Manu is what really sparked my keener interest in the team. I witnessed their "system" move from the blunt instrument of the 4-down era all the way to the (brief but) "beautiful game" and now to the achingly pedestrian Iso-ball of Kawhi and LMA. I am "hooked " at this point, but I do lament the decisions PATFO has made in the last couple of off-seasons and the direction in which they have propelled the team.

[lefty]

Accurate grade for our #1 PG

[bklynspursfan]

One criticism I have with Pop is that if his shooters are not getting shots, he will need to call up a play for them like he's done for Danny and Mills at times, when due to the way the game was developing, a long time relatively speaking had passed without them getting a 3 pt shot out. Pop understands that he needs the 3 pt shot to win games and sometimes selectively spoon feeds it to someone.

But if they're getting good looks and passing up on them? Idk... Sure he could run a play for them, but there's no guarantee they shoot it. I've seen it this season already, a play was run for Anderson and he pump faked causing Pop to run his hands through his hair and shake his head. With Bertans, he is a shooter. He's shown he is a shooter and isn't scared to let it fly, sometimes even off the dribble. So what happened against Houston was surprising for me. The only thing I could see was we were down early at home, and maybe it was more pressure for him. Not all guys are comfortable being themselves in pressure situation and revert to being passive and tentative.

For both guys, they need to be aggressive with their shots, but if that is not happening, then a play needs to be called to get them a shot. I suspect Pop is watching players play this early (he famously said he wasn't coaching LMA for the first half of last season for example and was just observing him, and he has indicated one of the things he watches is how guys play with each other and fit next to each other). Lack of chemistry and trust in teammates made it so that there is not enough involvement of new guys, or screening for each other.

I guess if they were not getting free at all and getting good looks I would agree with you. But when they are getting space and they are getting the ball from their teammates, and they still choose to be passive? Idk.. I feel like people are quickly to point the finger at Pop, but you can't force self confidence. These guys aren't just standing in the corner waiting for the ball and not getting it either. They just weren't taking advantage of the opportunities they did have. Pop is actually being patient, cause he's pulled his vets for being this passive.

[SAGirl]

But if they're getting good looks and passing up on them? Idk... Sure he could run a play for them, but there's no guarantee they shoot it. I've seen it this season already, a play was run for Anderson and he pump faked causing Pop to run his hands through his hair and shake his head. With Bertans, he is a shooter. He's shown he is a shooter and isn't scared to let it fly, sometimes even off the dribble. So what happened against Houston was surprising for me. The only thing I could see was we were down early at home, and maybe it was more pressure for him. Not all guys are comfortable being themselves in pressure situation and revert to being passive and tentative.

I remember that play and he was run off the line bc the defender identified the play. It wasn't a wide open shot as you make it seem. There wasn't a good screen set on his guy. Off his pump fake he took a shot that was ok for him as he's a good midrange shooter, he just missed it.

Bertans just didn't get shots in that Houston game and neither did Kyle until the 4th Q when he did take shots he needed to take. One has to realize that between Kawhi and LMA they consuming 60% of the possessions on the court (higher in that particular game) and neither guy is a good passer. Kawhi is decent but he's most certainly a scorer that looks for his shots first. The second unit moves the ball better but they have focused in their main scoring options and Bertans didn't get shots. Pop probably is fine with that so long as he's playing adequate defense, then taking whatever comes his way. Nothing came his way. He may just not be setting good enough screens to free himself, something is up with his screening, but he wasn't open.

As I said if Pop wanted to get guys going, he could call plays for them (he did for Kyle in a single cir stance as you point out, several games ago), so if he hasn't done that again or done it for Bertans that isn't a focus for him.

[YGWHI]

Hey YGWHI!

I think these early season experiments with Kiwi are a necessity. He needs to take over late in games. I am sure all of these growing pains are aimed at the postseason. It's things Pop will look at with him and then decide upon adjustments. I suspect heavily that what we see is indeed Pop's wish in the sense that he wants Kawhi to use all of those possessions to refine and improve decision making, etc. Even if he's not a point forward (and I agree he's not) he's going to have the ball late in the game to take his shots, but also decide on his own when it's better to pass out of a bad shot situation. It's a process I guess.

Agree, it's a process but it doesn't have to be this hard.

Most teams try to give their main scorers easy buckets, we can see CP3 and the lobs, Warriors and their screens for shooters/offensive scheme...

I wonder what's Spurs designed play/scheme to give Kawhi/LMA easy buckets?

It won't kill the Spurs if they give him/LMA open looks once in a while...

I would expect Pop to address that with time, specially deciding how they are going to use Pau. He's kind of going underutilized and they paid too much to not take advantage of him as best they can.

I find it so funny when Jeff McDonald from SAEN tried to explain that small ball teams are just bad matchups for Pau.

In a perimeter/small ball oriented league, we signed a Center who can't stay on the floor due his lack of mobility...Almost 25 teams will go small being bad matchups for him.

[bklynspursfan]

I remember that play and he was run off the line bc the defender identified the play. It wasn't a wide open shot as you make it seem. There wasn't a good screen set on his guy. Off his pump fake he took a shot that was ok for him as he's a good midrange shooter, he just missed it.

Bertans just didn't get shots in that Houston game and neither did Kyle until the 4th Q when he did take shots he needed to take. One has to realize that between Kawhi and LMA they consuming 60% of the possessions on the court (higher in that particular game) and neither guy is a good passer. Kawhi is decent but he's most certainly a scorer that looks for his shots first. The second unit moves the ball better but they have focused in their main scoring options and Bertans didn't get shots. Pop probably is fine with that so long as he's playing adequate defense, then taking whatever comes his way. Nothing came his way. He may just not be setting good enough screens to free himself, something is up with his screening, but he wasn't open.

As I said if Pop wanted to get guys going, he could call plays for them (he did for Kyle in a single cir stance as you point out, several games ago), so if he hasn't done that again or done it for Bertans that isn't a focus for him.

But don't you think NBA level players should be able to take contested shots?

Bertans have several good looks (by his standards) and he passed it up to dribble the ball and continue the trend of overpassing that was going on out there.

Pop doesn't call plays for Lapro, but the guy sees an opportunity and he takes it. He's not getting yanked out the game either, cause I'm sure Pop appreciates the aggressive play, and also needs to see him sort of be himself.

[SAGirl]

Agree, it's a process but it doesn't have to be this hard.

Most teams try to give their main scorers easy buckets, we can see CP3 and the lobs, Warriors and their screens for shooters/offensive scheme...

I wonder what's Spurs designed play/scheme to give Kawhi/LMA easy buckets?

It won't kill the Spurs if they give him/LMA open looks once in a while...


I find it so funny when Jeff McDonald from SAEN tried to explain that small ball teams are just bad matchups for Pau.

In a perimeter/small ball oriented league, we signed a Center who can't stay on the floor due his lack of mobility...Almost 25 teams will go small being bad matchups for him.

Once we step outside of the realm of observation into speculation, I think that part of the reason is so that Kawhi can learn to create for teammates or use his own judgment and take his shots. It's just a su ion bc we haven't seen enough games to know if that is the case. He has done well in some games taking over late (the Heat game), but not so good on others... that is why I think it's a growth process but in the past playoffs, plays broke down or whatever bc at the end of games defenses really key in and deny off the ball Kawhi giving you shots for roleplayers (like Tony at this stage of his career). Sometimes you design a play that breaks down and ends up with the ball in the hands of a roleplayer, so they just want to develop Kawhi to have the ball late in games... that is usually when the stars demand the ball. I see it as a development process. If Kawhi had better guards it would be easier for him I think... so you have a point in that he needs support there...

[SAGirl]

But don't you think NBA level players should be able to take contested shots?

Bertans have several good looks (by his standards) and he passed it up to dribble the ball and continue the trend of overpassing that was going on out there.

Pop doesn't call plays for Lapro, but the guy sees an opportunity and he takes it. He's not getting yanked out the game either, cause I'm sure Pop appreciates the aggressive play, and also needs to see him sort of be himself.

Your stars are the ones that take contested shots, specially contested jumpshots. They don't even encourage snipers lime Mills and Danny to take contested jumpshots, they do take a lot of quick shots in transition, coming off screens or whatever (shots that I think Bertans can take as well, but he didn't get any of that). He was covered.

I think the system is different for poing guards bc they handle the ball a lot and that gives them a lot more options. Part of their penetration is designed to create. Of course if you have your shot you can take it but usually someone is going to step in to break your penetration leaving someone open, that is the whole point. I think Bertans was trying to screen to pop to the 3 and that was basically all I saw him do. They didn't run anything else. As I said, maybe he is not screening well enough. I do agree right now he's not having enough of an offensive impact to justify him playing, but it's on Pop to address the fact that he's not getting looks IMO.