We all know Nash is overrated. No defense, two undeserving MVPs, etc ... but at least we can say he is a great passer!
But was he?
He has always been a decent passer, racking about 7 to 8 assists in Dallas. But his game was "opened up" after he joined the Suns, where he averaged anywhere from 10 to 12 assists a game over 8 seasons with Phoenix. However, 5 of those seasons were under Mike D, and for what I remembered, Porter and Gentry basically followed that type of philosophy where Nash holds onto the ball and rack up assists.
Since D'antoni left the Suns, he has coached the Knicks, Lakers and now Houston.
With the Knicks, he created Linsanity. Overall, he allowed very average guards like Chris Duhon (7 assists), Raymon Fatton (9 assists), Jeremy Lin (6.2 assists), Kendall Marshall (8.8 assists), and Steve Blake (7.6 assists) somehow manage to put up great numbers (by their standards).
Now, we have James Harden, who is a very fine player, but never one to be confused with passing greats like Magic Johnson, John Stockton, or Jason Kidd, is putting up 12.6 assists a game, not to mention 30 points a game.
At this point, it's very clear that it is the system that created all these great numbers, and this leads us back to Nash, were his numbers inflated because of D'antoni?
My opinion is that they were, and Nash was really a borderline all star being in the right place at the right time.
well of course they were massively inflated.. still, as a passer he was very very good and the plays he used to set up were always on point. Assists or not, I can't say that Harden is making anyone look better than he is, something nash used to do all the time.
Magic Johnson's passing game was overrated tbh
Nash was absolutely the craftiest passer listed ITT, but there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to passing skills. Sure Nash was craftier than Harden, but you put Nash on this Rockets team, how many assist does he average? One or two more? Maybe three more? While not putting up anywhere near 30 a game?
I think I'd take Harden over Nash at PG any day.
As much as I@ 80s basketball(magic could barely dribble with his off hand
- useless "no look" passes on 3 on 1 fastbreaksAs much as I
- "bullet" passes to teammates left alone under the basket
- "Court vision", thanks to smaller players guarding him
- Inflated assists numbers : entry pass to Kareem, he takes in the defense, fakes right, swings left, dribble-dribble, right handed hook. Assist: Magic.
- Put Rodman on him and all he does is entry pass to Kareem
AFAIC, Bird, Isiah, Price, KJ and Stockton were better passers
You my friend are a basketball idiot ...pure vision only LeBron out of current nba assist men are in Magic's class. As good as cp3 is James has the greater passing gift and it's not just about size ..
hes underrated at this point if anything
Sorry
I hurt your avatar's feelings
how does a 15ppg dude with no defense win an MVP award..
Mind boggling.
Its like that extremely unqualified white dude that always gets the job but never does his job properly.
White privilage imo.
I'll bite.
This thread is dumb.
That said, he's both a bit overrated and underappreciated.
His career will always be viewed for its paradox... All Offense, No Defense... Lots of Success but no les. He's like the Jim Kelly of the NBA with 4 Conference Finals appearances from 2003-2010, but no Finals Appearances.
But he was one of the best improvising PGs of his generation, the best shooter of his position, and players surrounding him were always better with him than with others. Very few ever left to get better, even in their primes.
So I get where this is going, but it's silly and it's trite.
Like tossing a beetle into the air after you plucked its wings off.
Where do you expect this topic to go on a Spurs board?
I still maintain had Nash had Gentry in 2005-2008, they would have been a truer challenger.
He was no Pistol Pete that's for sure.
I get that D'Antoni is being hyped here.
But that guy is a .500 or worse career coach so all of his ability to generate numbers ring hollow, save for Nash, who put up strong numbers in a trimvate ISO offense of Nelson, and strong numbers in a motion-derivative adjusted offense under Gentry. He was the PG for three coaches in three offensive systems and made the WCF with each.
And if you look at the POS 05-06 Roster, outside of Marion, he made everyone. Nobody was worth a damn until Nash started passing to them. Half had been recently waived, or were on their 3rd team in as many years. So it wasn't always that he had a Dirk or Amare to prop him up.
I once read the official scorer credited Magic with an assist for opening the door to the locker room to let a teammate through! No doubt his assist numbers were inflated. To be fair....so were Johnny Moore's.
If Nash kept performing at his days with Dallas, he would be remembered as a borderline all star, not a 2-time MVP and one of the greatest offensive weapon since Jordan. Terrell Brandon and Stephen Marbury were putting up Dallas Nash numbers.
The Gentry teams basically inherited a lot of what D'antoni did, and added in some defensive elements. To say that the Suns would have rung (or had more success) with Gentry at the helm instead of D'antoni is either overrating Gentry or underrating D'antoni.
D'antoni has his flaws, and lots of them, but as an offensive coach, he was phenomenal. He actually doesn't get enough credit for opening the game up, and 2014 Spurs definitely owed D'antoni a fair bit.
I love when fans with peripheral knowledge of something tell me opinions like they are fact on I lived and died over.
If you think Gentry and D'Antoni ran anything similar, then you have no credibility in an opinion that had little relevancy to begin with.
And the 2014 Spurs definitely owed a Suns coach, but it was Gentry, not D'Antoni.
Perhaps you should research your own team more before you start slinging about other teams.
Really tells you how bad you are at this if someone with peripheral knowledge knows more about something more than you do on a topic you lived and died over.
That is not true, the offensive systems revolves around a high number of decisions made by Nash, and having him made an enormous amount of decisions, with a fast pace being a main part of the offense. This isn't much of a departure from the D'antoni offense.
Gentry owed the Spurs, not the other way around. He learned a lot under the Spurs as an assistant.
D'antoni brought a lot of the pace and space. Popovich took that and opened it up to all the players instead of having it focused on one player (PGs in D'antoni's system). The use of three point shooters can also thank D'antoni as well.
i don't see the problem with his MVPs honestly. He carried a team that was complete garbage to the best record in the league with no major changes but adding him, and while he was out they looked like ass. the next season he lost his best roll man and perennial allstar and still had a top record in a tough west. imo he was the MVP to his team, no other player was making taking their team from complete irrelevance to being one of the best and most entertaining teams in the league overnight, tbh
This argument against Harden is stupid a f
You're not talking about a guy that is a scrub, you're talking about someone that played the 2, was a top scorer and made the plays anyways before being point. I've hated on Harden a lot, but if you are actually making the argument you are (where you set your premise like an idiot) you seriously have not watched many rockets games this year...
I mean...have you even seen the roster they are boasting? How do you not feel stupid wasting your time on that nonsensical post. Its like saying that Duncan was useless and since Pop's system wins at such a rate without him in the lineup he must not have been that important.
I give the OP credit; seed of doubt in my mind now.
You're very simplistic.
The offenses took shots. That's literally where it ends.
One sacrificed execution for immediacy. The other sacrificed immediacy for scheme. One sacrificed scheme for pace. The other orchestrated pace into spacing into greater efficiency. One abhorred FTs. The other embraced FTs. One called for a 4-corners spread/delayed screen dribble drive centered around ball-dominant Nash. The other utilized high post, motion-based schemes that saw players without the ball moving to make life easier on Nash. One played Amare as a C. The other as a PF. One played 7 players. The other played 10. One played Amare as the tallest player on the floor. The other played him alongside Frye, Lopez, or Collins the majority of the time.
But, yes, they both had Nash, Amare and a basketball, and pushed pace so they were the same.
Popovich has stated he brought in how to manage his aging stars after watching Gentry handle Nash and Hill, and brought the pace/space, high-post motion offense with side to side ball movement with cutters from Gentry's 2010 Suns.
Do you even remember what a Nash/D'Antoni offense looked like?
Yes, lots of threes, but Nash almost never let go of the ball until setting someone up in a scoring position. He'd dribble, over dribble, circle, and restart.
Gentry often allowed Hill to handle PG duties with Nash on the perimeter.
They are worlds apart.
And, lastly, do you really believe Pops would favor an opportunistic, chaos-based offense that he destroyed routinely over the high-post, motion/spacing-based offense that swept his ass by a team with a coach who was his former assistant?
Dude. Just ing stop.
Not only that, you could look at him in Dallas before Phoenix. Not to mention that because Nash didn't do as well post D'Antoni...maybe it has something to do with his freaking age.
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