Kyle Anderson isn't good enough...

[ernest787]

Anyone who still thinks Kyle is a NBA player is trolling themselves.

Kyle is not the new Bonner. Bonner actually had a NBA skill. Fathead needs to go play in Europe.

[SAGirl]

Competing is what we see too little of once Summer League ends. I have seen him show flashes of excellent intensity on a few plays. I have been especially impressed by his ability to box out and rebound against larger, more athletic bigs. But in balance, those kinds of plays seem increasingly (which is even more cause for concern) the exception not the rule. You look at the post-game stats, and his line is embarrassingly bare. His dribbling (driving?) seems aimless, and his movement without the ball is worse. Playing within the framework of the offense is one thing, playing aimlessly and with little intensity is quite another.

I think you know that I am not trolling. I was willing to fish with Kyle for a long time, but it is now time to cut bait. I honestly don't know what the guy's role is, and I am not sure he does either. I said a while ago that I fear Pop has filled Kyle's plate too full. I think it would have been much better for Kyle and the Spurs if Pop had just given him one role to start his career, let him get comfortable in that role, and then expanded it incrementally. In retrospect, trying to utilize a 20-year-old kid as Boris light was a big mistake. Perhaps a fresh start with a new coach/team in a well-defined role would enable Kyle to play with some passion and focus and, hopefully, restart his young career. Don't see that happening with the Spurs, though.

I am in an uncomfortable to type in tablet but watch him here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UuZa5R6KU4

His defense is legit. Although it doesn't look it his defense has been at an elite level for two seasons and against starting level compe ion at this point in very different lineups. He just does a lot of that is not recorded. He basically snuffed out 4+ layups in transition by himself in that clip but bc it wasn't a flashy shot block it doesn't show anywhere. He stole the ball twice and got 8 boards and 3 assists, but bc he only scored 2 points ppl will hate. He does stuff like that regularly that's why he's still playing. Last game he snuffed out Ingram, who had been hot prior to the game. Ingram drew fouls on Bertans and scores on Lee, but couldn't do anything with Kawhi or Kyle.

Kyle is very legit it blocking out and showing awareness for boards. He might have still been a draft rookie this season and is still young playing a role to start the season that was ill suited for him.

He's still developing specially confidence as a shooter and that is really a developing aspect in his game. We shall see but his shot looks improved, it's his confidence and willingness to shoot from deep thats been missing. When the season started the starters were not really moving the ball well and they were working to get others, more important guys going. IMO the pressure on him right now is with his shooting. It's still early in the season... but it's also hard to tell if Pop is really looking to maximize what he can do or whether he will fit in better elsewhere, a real possibility too.

[elemento]

I know it's like a fad to hate him in the board, but I am in the minority flow here. I still believe in Kyle.

[Brazil]

I know it's like a fad to hate him in the board, but I am in the minority flow here. I still believe in Kyle.

you must be a believer then... you probably also believed Brazil would qualify against Germany I guess

[sasaint]

I am in an uncomfortable to type in tablet but watch him here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UuZa5R6KU4

His defense is legit. Although it doesn't look it his defense has been at an elite level for two seasons and against starting level compe ion at this point in very different lineups. He just does a lot of that is not recorded. He basically snuffed out 4+ layups in transition by himself in that clip but bc it wasn't a flashy shot block it doesn't show anywhere. He stole the ball twice and got 8 boards and 3 assists, but bc he only scored 2 points ppl will hate. He does stuff like that regularly that's why he's still playing. Last game he snuffed out Ingram, who had been hot prior to the game. Ingram drew fouls on Bertans and scores on Lee, but couldn't do anything with Kawhi or Kyle.

Kyle is very legit it blocking out and showing awareness for boards. He might have still been a draft rookie this season and is still young playing a role to start the season that was ill suited for him.

He's still developing specially confidence as a shooter and that is really a developing aspect in his game. We shall see but his shot looks improved, it's his confidence and willingness to shoot from deep thats been missing. When the season started the starters were not really moving the ball well and they were working to get others, more important guys going. IMO the pressure on him right now is with his shooting. It's still early in the season... but it's also hard to tell if Pop is really looking to maximize what he can do or whether he will fit in better elsewhere, a real possibility too.

Thanks for the link. That was the first Sacramento game, probably his best game of the year - and the box score did, indeed, reflect his level of play. We just don't see enough of that level of intensity. His defense is legit, but not elite. He simply needs a better offensive game to go with it. Perhaps Pop plans on just plugging him into the second unit when Manu is gone...and he will be a "utility" player until then. I just doubt that he will find his niche with the Spurs.

[raybies]

I haven't given up on him either but I'm frustrated with him to some degree. IMO his best role is like a draymond/randle role. You can play thru him at the high post, run cuts and screens for shooters like the Lakers and Warriors do. Let him bring the ball up on rebounds. He can pass well, rebound well. He's just the opposite of a volume shooter. Even in college he averaged 14 points 8 rebs 6 as his sop re year. He was the focal point on offense and the only averaged 14. He likes to get others involved. I just don't understand how they develop him in the summer but leave him on an island on the big squad. At this point I think it's by design, no way he's playing like that because that's how he is. Like the said before, he's at the bottom of the totem pole.

[bklynspursfan]

Thanks for the link. That was the first Sacramento game, probably his best game of the year - and the box score did, indeed, reflect his level of play. We just don't see enough of that level of intensity. His defense is legit, but not elite. He simply needs a better offensive game to go with it. Perhaps Pop plans on just plugging him into the second unit when Manu is gone...and he will be a "utility" player until then. I just doubt that he will find his niche with the Spurs.

Yea, and I've seen times where he gets caught ball watching while his man cuts to the basket or is open for a shot and he has to then run (at his speed) to contest a shot. So I think he's good defensively, and he has good size/length which helps, but I'm hoping he can be a bit smarter at times with the limited minutes he's seeing. For his sake, he's probably gotta be great on defense consistently if he wants to get consistent playing time.

[bklynspursfan]

I haven't given up on him either but I'm frustrated with him to some degree. IMO his best role is like a draymond/randle role. You can play thru him at the high post, run cuts and screens for shooters like the Lakers and Warriors do. Let him bring the ball up on rebounds. He can pass well, rebound well. He's just the opposite of a volume shooter. Even in college he averaged 14 points 8 rebs 6 as his sop re year. He was the focal point on offense and the only averaged 14. He likes to get others involved. I just don't understand how they develop him in the summer but leave him on an island on the big squad. At this point I think it's by design, no way he's playing like that because that's how he is. Like the said before, he's at the bottom of the totem pole.

It seems that is like what Diaw was doing at times for us, and what seems like Lee is doing now for us.

It really has to be mental with him, I mean I've seen guys play one way in sort of a stress/pressure free environment, then when it comes time for the real action, they are a different player. He just seems unsure of himself at times, even when he has the ball, he'll dribble into traffic and just seem a bit lost. It's like night & day with now and the Summer league

[Chinook]

I do think the Spurs' ceiling is lower with him not playing very well. Obviously, there are a ton of fans who don't gauge what he does well and instead only focus on the bad things. But at the same time, he can't get away with having so many bad things. He has too many mental hangups when he tries to score. His path to realizing his potential has always gone through him figuring out how to dictate the angles. Because he doesn't know that he's going to have to try to score when he gets the ball, he puts himself in bad positions.

Until he says to with fitting in on offense and just decides to force his own offense, he'll never start moving into an optimal position. He can always have his green-light reduced. I just want it lit first. Right now the bench still doesn't have a go-to scorer, and that's showing up against some teams already.

[sasaint]

I do think the Spurs' ceiling is lower with him not playing very well. Obviously, there are a ton of fans who don't gauge what he does well and instead only focus on the bad things. But at the same time, he can't get away with having so many bad things. He has too many mental hangups when he tries to score. His path to realizing his potential has always gone through him figuring out how to dictate the angles. Because he doesn't know that he's going to have to try to score when he gets the ball, he puts himself in bad positions.

Until he says to with fitting in on offense and just decides to force his own offense, he'll never start moving into an optimal position. He can always have his green-light reduced. I just want it lit first. Right now the bench still doesn't have a go-to scorer, and that's showing up against some teams already.

Good observations about Kyle's essentially needing to find his "spots". But I don't think he needs to force his own offense, just aggressively seize the opportunities that present themselves. Under Pop's watch, the only player who succeded in saying "to with fitting in" and forced his own offense was Manu. For Kyle that would probably incur Pop's wrath. Maybe you and I are just splitting hairs between "forcing" and "aggressively seizing".

[r0drig0lac]

I feel bad.... I won't even play Anderson over Simmons on NBA 2k17! He has a 74 rating an Simmons has a 70.... But IDC, that gets no burn with me!

[SAGirl]

Thanks for the link. That was the first Sacramento game, probably his best game of the year - and the box score did, indeed, reflect his level of play. We just don't see enough of that level of intensity. His defense is legit, but not elite. He simply needs a better offensive game to go with it. Perhaps Pop plans on just plugging him into the second unit when Manu is gone...and he will be a "utility" player until then. I just doubt that he will find his niche with the Spurs.

The "utility" role is what is being asked of him currently. What you saw is what Pop wants... it doesn't mean that's all he can do, but it is what they needed. He was a 5th option in the SL at a time they were figuring themselves out with a very high usage Kawhi and LMA. A utilitarian guy is exactly what Pop wanted... which is what Danny has been, but obviously a better shooter and quality as a defender... But you are judging him harshly when most of his minutes were in that role... he had to be more aggressive with his 3 pt shot if open than he was, but other than that, he was providing what they needed. The only game Simmons started for the season wasn't very different for Simmons either. It's just what is asked of the SG in the Spurs system currently is precisely the utilitarian stuff + the 3 pt shot. That group is talented and has much better players that will use most of the possessions, the vast majority in fact.

The bench also has a veteran group. Pop is putting a lot on Patty's basket and he's playing very well, why alter that? Then Pop has Manu as a security blanket and Lee, who has played well as well. The other guys are complementary guys. Even Simmons, who hasn't hit a single 3 in any other game but the GSW and has not been producing much lately (has statpadded in garbage time, if you take those FT from garbage time out he'd be scoring much less too...). It's just that those guys are meant to take whatever is there and that varies from game to game depending on who and how they are defended, etc. It's by design.

The Sac game wasn't his only good game. His best game was the Pistons game, but there are no highlights of it (he scored efficiently and didn't pass up shots, even hit 1 of 2 3s he attempted and he was defending fine on KCP, etc). After that he's played little. It's just how it is. Small sample size playing out of position in a utilitarian role and well, bring on the hecklers...

[philldafunk]

I was looking at the post the Spurs made on FB, when he was at some HEB off 281. People in the comments were letting him have it, so I think it's not just the people of ST who thinks he stinks.

[raybies]

It seems that is like what Diaw was doing at times for us, and what seems like Lee is doing now for us.

It really has to be mental with him, I mean I've seen guys play one way in sort of a stress/pressure free environment, then when it comes time for the real action, they are a different player. He just seems unsure of himself at times, even when he has the ball, he'll dribble into traffic and just seem a bit lost. It's like night & day with now and the Summer league

Yeah David Lee really took his spot tbh because David is at his best as a pf, I assume pop feels that way too since he almost exclusively plays pf and is paired with LMA and Pau. But I think Kyle is earning pops trust for all the garbage work he's done

[SAGirl]

I do think the Spurs' ceiling is lower with him not playing very well. Obviously, there are a ton of fans who don't gauge what he does well and instead only focus on the bad things. But at the same time, he can't get away with having so many bad things. He has too many mental hangups when he tries to score. His path to realizing his potential has always gone through him figuring out how to dictate the angles. Because he doesn't know that he's going to have to try to score when he gets the ball, he puts himself in bad positions.

Until he says to with fitting in on offense and just decides to force his own offense, he'll never start moving into an optimal position. He can always have his green-light reduced. I just want it lit first. Right now the bench still doesn't have a go-to scorer, and that's showing up against some teams already.

I see your point, though it's early and Kyle playing with the starters most of his minutes wasn't what he was going to do for the season. So it's tough to judge overall since most of his minutes have come in a strict role.

It takes time to develop chemistry with the bigs and he's really played very little with them, even in scrimmages or practices he was in the SL. And he still looks to pass to the big a lot, which means he's not looking for his shot primarily coming off a pick, which has resulted in him being taken out his own windows of opportunity to score until he waits for the big to get in position for the pass, sometimes leaving him with a tough shot for himself, when the pass is taken away due to defense recovering, instead of coming off the pick with the intention to score initially (I saw that specifically happen in the Pelicans game). I think that's your point. The bench is primarily PNR heavy and he probably needs to be more aggressive for himself coming off a pick than looking to pass.

I will note he's run very little with the bench overall and in the summer the guy the Spurs spent a lot of time and resources trying to refine his reads on the PNR was Simmons. That's just the truth. I share in rabies frustration of Spurs asking Kyle to work on some things in the summer and then not using those on games and asking him to do something entirely different than what he's worked on.

Pop infuriated me a little when he said Kyle could play the 1,3 or 4. Ill be honest. He's never played the 1 in the SL or even in the dleague so that's a bit hypocritical of Pop. It was never his intention to play him as a 1. He also got both Bertans and Lee and he wasn't aiming to play Kyle as a 4 other than a few situational occasions, so it's clear to me that he is ideally a 3, but he wasn't asked to work on the PNR as a ballhandlers in the summer, so he's been placed in la la land, which means nowhere exactly. They have asked him to play very differently than the game they asked him to develop. He's therefore less ready than others to do what is asked and is developing his PNR game as the season goes.

I am just hoping he gains and maintains confidence as a 3 pts shooter bc no matter what spot he's ultimately playing, it will be a necessity for his career to hit that shot better and this season it seems that's basically what they need.

It's still early though... again still early.

[sasaint]

The "utility" role is what is being asked of him currently. What you saw is what Pop wants... it doesn't mean that's all he can do, but it is what they needed. He was a 5th option in the SL at a time they were figuring themselves out with a very high usage Kawhi and LMA. A utilitarian guy is exactly what Pop wanted... which is what Danny has been, but obviously a better shooter and quality as a defender... But you are judging him harshly when most of his minutes were in that role... he had to be more aggressive with his 3 pt shot if open than he was, but other than that, he was providing what they needed. The only game Simmons started for the season wasn't very different for Simmons either. It's just what is asked of the SG in the Spurs system currently is precisely the utilitarian stuff + the 3 pt shot. That group is talented and has much better players that will use most of the possessions, the vast majority in fact.

The bench also has a veteran group. Pop is putting a lot on Patty's basket and he's playing very well, why alter that? Then Pop has Manu as a security blanket and Lee, who has played well as well. The other guys are complementary guys. Even Simmons, who hasn't hit a single 3 in any other game but the GSW and has not been producing much lately (has statpadded in garbage time, if you take those FT from garbage time out he'd be scoring much less too...). It's just that those guys are meant to take whatever is there and that varies from game to game depending on who and how they are defended, etc. It's by design.

The Sac game wasn't his only good game. His best game was the Pistons game, but there are no highlights of it (he scored efficiently and didn't pass up shots, even hit 1 of 2 3s he attempted and he was defending fine on KCP, etc). After that he's played little. It's just how it is. Small sample size playing out of position in a utilitarian role and well, bring on the hecklers...

The comparison with Danny is not a good one. Danny has a very well-defined role. He is a prototypical 3-and-D wing. What I was suggesting by borrowing the "utility player" tag from baseball is that Kyle (in contrast to Danny) has no clearly defined role - by Pop's design, as you note. I think that really hurts Kyle. Perhaps with the starting unit intact and Kyle's returning to the bench, we will get a better idea of what Pop has in mind for Kyle. Even then Kyle is competing with Simmons and Bertans (even Lee to some extent) for not the same position/role but for the same minutes. Leaving Bertans aside, what is the second unit out of Dedmon, Lee, Kyle, Simmons, Patty, Manu? Is it totally matchup dependent (when hardly anything Pop does seems to be)?

[sasaint]

Pop infuriated me a little when he said Kyle could play the 1,3 or 4. Ill be honest. He's never played the 1 in the SL or even in the dleague so that's a bit hypocritical of Pop. It was never his intention to play him as a 1. He also got both Bertans and Lee and he wasn't aiming to play Kyle as a 4 other than a few situational occasions, so it's clear to me that he is ideally a 3, but he wasn't asked to work on the PNR as a ballhandlers in the summer, so he's been placed in la la land, which means nowhere exactly. They have asked him to play very differently than the game they asked him to develop. He's therefore less ready than others to do what is asked and is developing his PNR game as the season goes.

You and I say a lot of the same things about Kyle. You just see the Kyle cup as half full, while I have come to see it as half empty. However, on this one we will just have to disagree. Kyle is not a 1, nor a 2, nor with Lee and Bertans on the team, a 4. And with his lack of quickness, Kyle was never "ideally a 3". Therefore, his optimal value is as a piece in a trade before Pop has another season to completely expose what Kyle is not.

[SAGirl]

The comparison with Danny is not a good one. Danny has a very well-defined role. He is a prototypical 3-and-D wing. What I was suggesting by borrowing the "utility player" tag from baseball is that Kyle (in contrast to Danny) has no clearly defined role - by Pop's design, as you note. I think that really hurts Kyle. Perhaps with the starting unit intact and Kyle's returning to the bench, we will get a better idea of what Pop has in mind for Kyle. Even then Kyle is competing with Simmons and Bertans (even Lee to some extent) for not the same position/role but for the same minutes. Leaving Bertans aside, what is the second unit out of Dedmon, Lee, Kyle, Simmons, Patty, Manu? Is it totally matchup dependent (when hardly anything Pop does seems to be)?

I guess I misinterpreted the term, but most of Kyle's minutes this season have come in filling for Danny so I thought that's what you referenced.

In the bench if he's playing the 3 they need him to hit perimeter shots and provide space bc both bigs like the paint and the bench doesn't have enough shooting. Manu himself has been hitting the 3 and frequently bailing out possessions that don't result in a good shot once they have run the system to its conclusion. Note that this has been regardless of Kyle, since he's played there so little. I have said they will struggle to score in the half court at times bc they don't have that much shooting. Their redemption has been that they have been good on defense thus generating opportunities in transition off good defensive play that Simmons has been able to take advantage of.

In that situation he probably needs to be more aggressive with his shot coming off a pick for a midrange shot or a dish to someone if they rotate to contest his shot. He's a good enough midrange shooter that he can burn teams coming off a pick and he has exhibited a dangerous floater that's near impossible to block as he's very tall/long. I think with time he could develop chemistry with the bigs to dish to them too. But we haven't seen enough of that to say and Pop is not taking the ball from Patty who is playing well or Manu. His role is not clear to me bc he has played little with them though.

[apalisoc_9]

Way too much and way too long of an analysis for a guy that will most likely not play in most playoff games.

[SAGirl]

You and I say a lot of the same things about Kyle. You just see the Kyle cup as half full, while I have come to see it as half empty. However, on this one we will just have to disagree. Kyle is not a 1, nor a 2, nor with Lee and Bertans on the team, a 4. And with his lack of quickness, Kyle was never "ideally a 3". Therefore, his optimal value is as a piece in a trade before Pop has another season to completely expose what Kyle is not.

Fair enough. I am more optimistic, but I respect dissent.

[TD 21]

The "utility" role is what is being asked of him currently. What you saw is what Pop wants... it doesn't mean that's all he can do, but it is what they needed. He was a 5th option in the SL at a time they were figuring themselves out with a very high usage Kawhi and LMA. A utilitarian guy is exactly what Pop wanted... which is what Danny has been, but obviously a better shooter and quality as a defender... But you are judging him harshly when most of his minutes were in that role... he had to be more aggressive with his 3 pt shot if open than he was, but other than that, he was providing what they needed. The only game Simmons started for the season wasn't very different for Simmons either. It's just what is asked of the SG in the Spurs system currently is precisely the utilitarian stuff + the 3 pt shot. That group is talented and has much better players that will use most of the possessions, the vast majority in fact.

Small sample size playing out of position in a utilitarian role and well, bring on the hecklers...

2+ years, for a middling prospect to begin with, is not a small sample size and the notion that virtually any team, let alone an elite one, should cater to said player is insane.

He's utilized as a "utility" player by default because the closest he comes to specializing in something is defensive rebounding and no off ball wing is going to cement rotation spot based on that.

That's always been the problem with him: not talented enough to play on ball and not suited to playing off ball.

[MaNu4Tres]

2+ years, for a middling prospect to begin with, is not a small sample size and the notion that virtually any team, let alone an elite one, should cater to said player is insane.

He's utilized as a "utility" player by default because the closest he comes to specializing in something is defensive rebounding and no off ball wing is going to cement rotation spot based on that.

That's always been the problem with him: not talented enough to play on ball and not suited to playing off ball.

This. All of this.

[sasaint]

2+ years, for a middling prospect to begin with, is not a small sample size and the notion that virtually any team, let alone an elite one, should cater to said player is insane.

Indeed, a reasonable sample size, and to my eyes, Kyle is just stagnant, not really improving appreciably in any aspect of the game. "Catering" to such a player surely would be insane, but failing initially to put said player in a position to succeed or to maximize whatever skill set he has is not smart, either.

He's utilized as a "utility" player by default because the closest he comes to specializing in something is defensive rebounding and no off ball wing is going to cement rotation spot based on that.

I coined the "utility player" tag in this discussion to reflect how Pop had used him, not so much his skill set (or lack thereof). In addition to being good on the defensive boards, he is also an effective team defender - although as bklynspursfan noted he does suffer from lapses of concentration. Bruce Bowen he isn't, so he definitely needs at least one reliable offensive move to ever hope to become a rotation player.

That's always been the problem with him: not talented enough to play on ball and not suited to playing off ball.

Actually, he is pretty talented on-ball, BUT NOT at the 1, 2 or 3. I really want to know why he is not "suited" to playing off-ball, in your opinion. To me "suitability" refers to some inherent quality of a player. I don't think of any player as being inherently unsuited to playing off-ball. I think playing off-ball is a skill that any player can develop as long as he is dedicated enough to learn about spacing and timing. Consequently, I fail to comprehend why Kyle isn't at all good at playing off the ball.

Frankly, he reminds me of myself in the 7th grade. Coach taught us our sets and plays, which I learned perfectly. After games, I complained to my dad about my lack of touches. He said that I couldn't just go to my "spot" on the floor and expect to get the ball; I had to move. Somebody needs tell that to Kyle. His passivity is very frustrating.

[100%duncan]

The fact that people have to highlight his "good things" microscopically speaks volumes how this guy ing sucks. 2+ years of "experience" and this guy still doesn't have it.

[100%duncan]

Nice putback!!!!!