Game Grades: Mavericks @ Spurs (:vomit:)

[ElNono]

On a side note, Anderson sucks, he sucks plain and simple. at this point it is on him and only on him, there is no excuse, no explanation other than him sucking. It's not like he is stagning, he is worst by a mile than last year. Globally he is above expectation on defensive side but way below expectation offensively, total gives us a scrub who did not figure out how to contribute, who continues to be lost on transition and on sets

You're too harsh, tbh... if you grade on a curve and overlook he's slow, consistently lost, extremely passive, hasn't managed to earn a larger role on a team with very old and modest talent, he actually compares favorably to Michael Jordan's first 3 seasons in the league. Because Kyle hasn't had his flu game yet, doesn't mean it's time to give up on him, IMO.

EDIT: forgot to add /blue

[100%duncan]

You're too harsh, tbh... if you grade on a curve and overlook he's slow, consistently lost, extremely passive, hasn't managed to earn a larger role on a team with very old and modest talent, he actually compares favorably to Michael Jordan's first 3 seasons in the league. Because Kyle hasn't had his flu game yet, doesn't mean it's time to give up on him, IMO.

EDIT: forgot to add /blue

[silverblackfan]

Thanks for the excellent write up. You have really stirred up some discussion.


About Anderson, I half expected the F grade but still laughed. He seemed pretty invisible to me in this game, but more in the C range on defense.

[bklynspursfan]

DRPM: 1.49 -- Best ranking for two-guards by a mile. Would be sixth at SFs. Last season he was second in two guards with 1.33, which would have been seventh for SFs. The dude absolutely wrecked opposing players in PER, giving up a 12 as a two-guard, and 8s as a forward. Second on the team in DBPM this season and last. Has been about neutral in defensive on/off, which is hard to do when you're backing up the DPoY. He has a similar DRB rate as Leonard (11.8 to 11.2 last year and 10.9 to 10.8 so far this season).

He actually compares pretty favorably to Leonard in his numbers, though you have to adjust for Kawhi being a starter and in general just more dynamic. He grades out better than Green, though the same caveats apply, obviously.

The DBPM is tricky. It also has Pau at #3 and Kawhi at #6. With defensive metrics, it's really hard to gauge an individuals defense from what I've seen. So even as the best ranking 2 guard, it's important to note that most of his time at the 2 came in at a very small sample size (as are all adv stats realistically 1 month in tbh), and outside of Kawhi, the starters struggled as a whole defensively.

But the DRPM, it's still fairly early to use some of these IMO. Like Kawhi is currently 64th in the league, and behind the likes of David West, Pau/Lee, etc... So I can understand using this metric cause it's favorable for Anderson. But context is important too. I don't think he's a bad defender, I also don't think he's a great defender. Certainly not the best defender at the 2 in the league. I think it's probably fair to say Green has probably been the better defender at the 2 since his return, yet he is only @ .61 compared to Anderson @ 1.49.

I said it in another thread, he has good length, so he is able to disrupt smaller players and at least use his length to get a hand up on shots. He doesn't have great instincts, sometimes gets caught ball watching, and can be slow to close out on shooters.

He's 2nd in DBPM on the team (Behind Dedmon). He's probably 1st or 2nd in DRPM on our team, ESPN is acting up and not showing all stats, so it's tough to confirm. Do you feel comfortable calling him the 1st/2nd most impactful defensive player on the team?

FWIW, he is 5th on the team in DWS, and I suspect Green will continue to rise up. So he's probably going to be a middle of the pack type guy, which probably makes more sense.

I'll agree re: the rebounding, I think he does a good job rebounding the ball most of the time. Seems to position himself well and box out well

[Brazil]

You're too harsh, tbh... if you grade on a curve and overlook he's slow, consistently lost, extremely passive, hasn't managed to earn a larger role on a team with very old and modest talent, he actually compares favorably to Michael Jordan's first 3 seasons in the league. Because Kyle hasn't had his flu game yet, doesn't mean it's time to give up on him, IMO.

EDIT: forgot to add /blue

[Chinook]

The DBPM is tricky. It also has Pau at #3 and Kawhi at #6. With defensive metrics, it's really hard to gauge an individuals defense from what I've seen. So even as the best ranking 2 guard, it's important to note that most of his time at the 2 came in at a very small sample size (as are all adv stats realistically 1 month in tbh), and outside of Kawhi, the starters struggled as a whole defensively.

But the DRPM, it's still fairly early to use some of these IMO. Like Kawhi is currently 64th in the league, and behind the likes of David West, Pau/Lee, etc... So I can understand using this metric cause it's favorable for Anderson. But context is important too. I don't think he's a bad defender, I also don't think he's a great defender. Certainly not the best defender at the 2 in the league. I think it's probably fair to say Green has probably been the better defender at the 2 since his return, yet he is only @ .61 compared to Anderson @ 1.49.

I said it in another thread, he has good length, so he is able to disrupt smaller players and at least use his length to get a hand up on shots. He doesn't have great instincts, sometimes gets caught ball watching, and can be slow to close out on shooters.

He's 2nd in DBPM on the team (Behind Dedmon). He's probably 1st or 2nd in DRPM on our team, ESPN is acting up and not showing all stats, so it's tough to confirm. Do you feel comfortable calling him the 1st/2nd most impactful defensive player on the team?

FWIW, he is 5th on the team in DWS, and I suspect Green will continue to rise up. So he's probably going to be a middle of the pack type guy, which probably makes more sense.

I'll agree re: the rebounding, I think he does a good job rebounding the ball most of the time. Seems to position himself well and box out well

I agree that defensive stats are tricky. Best we can do is look at a suite of them, and none say Anderson is a bad defender.

RE ESPN: Use this link: http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/5

Dunno why the main one is so ty.

RE: Win-shares. Those are based on minutes. If you did DWS/48, Anderson would be quite high, I suspect.

RE: DRPM: It's grading out Kawhi poorly because Kawhi's been poor on that end. He was great in that metric last year. I hope Kawhi pulls back to the top. But we have to see what he can do while also being an offensive superstar.

[MultiTroll]

-Resting players at this point in the season when there was no game the day before or a game the next day? Really Pop.

-I love Kawhi, but he needs to stop shooting; something is clearly wrong with his shot (and offense in general really). He's shown a nice upgrade in his passing ability this season so it'd be in the team's best interest for him to look to create more until his shot comes around again.

-Even without Porker directing things, the offense found enough of a balance between ISO and ball movement but everyone seemed to choose the worst times to take a shot. They either ended up with a wide open look only to continue passing into a high-difficulty shot by Kawhi or Gasol, or ended up attempting difficult passes that resulted in turnovers.

-Pop needs to realize this isn't 2014 (or even last year). This team doesn't have the depth it once did to "take games off" and expect to win, even against supposed bottom-feeders.

-Pop again: stop with these re ed rotations that make no sense.

• There is zero reason for Fathead to be closing out games, especially with how awful he's looked all season.
• Under no cir stances should Dejounte Murray, Davis Bertans, and Byrn Forbes be on the court together at this point in the meat of a game.
• Stop benching Kawhi and Danny at the same time when the opposing team's perimeter players start to get hot; it only exacerbates the problem.
• Practice what you preach and stop underestimating bad teams.

Thank you.

[Spurtacular]

"Maybe, the election's hitting him hard"

Well, someone tell him that the basketball court is not a safe space; f'ing pansy.

[SAGirl]

Exactly. And this ignores that in many games it doesn't even look like he's fully engaged. I don't think Pop is giving the effort that new coaches often give. He's essentially just coasting. And that makes some sense so long as he's taking notes and teaching well in practice. But I don't think he's setting a good example for his guys at all.

It's a concern that is not outlandish. Since you didn't watch the game I will share this with you: there wasn't any hard coaching, no pulling guys aside for teaching moments. Pop did set them loose and let them play without worrying about getting pulled. In a way it's good bc they could play a good stretch of uninterrupted minutes so he gets the footage he wants. However, if guys started making mistakes there weren't time outs to gather them up, regain composure, etc... He wasn't pulling guys out to talk to them, then get them back in like he does at times, etc. He really didn't seem as engaged. He was letting Messina coach in the second half too I thought, so maybe that explains Pop being detached.

I actually saw Pop more engaged last season in the coaching of Boban, Ray Mc, Anderson and Simmons early in the season. Even in garbage time, I remember seeing him teaching, benching or pulling guys out for teaching moments, etc. He broke them in over different games as well. And when they did all play together like in the 76ers game last season and one against Denver I remember, Pop still had them in a relative short leash. I remember him pulling each of them on different occasions early in the season to teach. This game wasn't that. I didn't see that here. It could be that he was deferring the coaching to the staff more... again I thought I saw Messina coaching in the second half...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

ya but no sorry... It's like saying if my boss set the tone for poor effort I do the same within the company I work... Fact is sometimes you have solid boss, sometimes assholes, sometimes your usual good boss is having a poor couple of months for whatever reasons, on all cases you are a pro and do your job no matter what. The fact players may think dude is senile is not an excuse for a piss poor effort, effort is not on lineups and strategy consideration, effort is personnal. If you don't put the necessary effort into a game or don't act professionally it is on you not on your boss

But in sports a coach is the leader of the team, teams always take on the personality of their coach, far more than they do in a corporate structure. Everything for the Spur begins with Pop, he's just as much to blame as anyone else for last night's horrible showing. He needs to be held accountable just as much as the players. Otherwise you end up with the blind leading the blind.

[spurs10]

It's a concern that is not outlandish. Since you didn't watch the game I will share this with you: there wasn't any hard coaching, no pulling guys aside for teaching moments. Pop did set them loose and let them play without worrying about getting pulled. In a way it's good bc they could play a good stretch of uninterrupted minutes so he gets the footage he wants. However, if guys started making mistakes there weren't time outs to gather them up, regain composure, etc... He wasn't pulling guys out to talk to them, then get them back in like he does at times, etc. He really didn't seem as engaged. He was letting Messina coach in the second half too I thought, so maybe that explains Pop being detached.

I actually saw Pop more engaged last season in the coaching of Boban, Ray Mc, Anderson and Simmons early in the season. Even in garbage time, I remember seeing him teaching, benching or pulling guys out for teaching moments, etc. He broke them in over different games as well. And when they did all play together like in the 76ers game last season and one against Denver I remember, Pop still had them in a relative short leash. I remember him pulling each of them on different occasions early in the season to teach. This game wasn't that. I didn't see that here. It could be that he was deferring the coaching to the staff more... again I thought I saw Messina coaching in the second half...

Actually he did pull people a couple times for missing rotations. Simmons (who he talk to) and Danny come to mind. Overall he did just let them play and gave them a lot of rope early on. Murray was having growing pains for sure.

[Robz4000]

It's a concern that is not outlandish. Since you didn't watch the game I will share this with you: there wasn't any hard coaching, no pulling guys aside for teaching moments. Pop did set them loose and let them play without worrying about getting pulled. In a way it's good bc they could play a good stretch of uninterrupted minutes so he gets the footage he wants. However, if guys started making mistakes there weren't time outs to gather them up, regain composure, etc... He wasn't pulling guys out to talk to them, then get them back in like he does at times, etc. He really didn't seem as engaged. He was letting Messina coach in the second half too I thought, so maybe that explains Pop being detached.

I actually saw Pop more engaged last season in the coaching of Boban, Ray Mc, Anderson and Simmons early in the season. Even in garbage time, I remember seeing him teaching, benching or pulling guys out for teaching moments, etc. He broke them in over different games as well. And when they did all play together like in the 76ers game last season and one against Denver I remember, Pop still had them in a relative short leash. I remember him pulling each of them on different occasions early in the season to teach. This game wasn't that. I didn't see that here. It could be that he was deferring the coaching to the staff more... again I thought I saw Messina coaching in the second half...

Was gonna mention that bit in my grades but I forgot Messina's name and got distracted by that. Messina was the one doing most of the coaching/correcting/playcalling for most of the game really. Not sure what that was about, but with all the young guys getting extended minutes Pop needed to be doing that; Messina isn't their coach, Pop is.

[GSH]

You're too harsh, tbh... if you grade on a curve and overlook he's slow, consistently lost, extremely passive, hasn't managed to earn a larger role on a team with very old and modest talent, he actually compares favorably to Michael Jordan's first 3 seasons in the league. Because Kyle hasn't had his flu game yet, doesn't mean it's time to give up on him, IMO.

EDIT: forgot to add /blue

LOL. As someone who takes his sarcasm seriously, you've raised it to an art form.

I want to defend Anderson, I really do. And I want him to step up and be a solid contributor. But I also want a cure for cancer, and that's not happening either.

[bklynspursfan]

Pop is coaching/developing both his players and his staff. If it was Bud, I don't think anyone would've cared because Bud had been with Pop since day 1 and was well versed on what the team needed to do. Messina could be the guy to run things once Pop leaves, who knows. And Pop can only get thrown out but so many times in a season

Just let him do what he needs to, there's no better way to get guys get experience then by letting them do it. Whether they failed or succeeded is not the point, but it's good for them in the long run. If any of us were assistants under Pop and he allowed us to coach, I'm sure you guys would have a different point a view.

It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. No big deal

[Robz4000]

If Messina is Pop's successor I'll be pissed as . Udoka deserves it more than anyone else at this point.

[Proxy]

The team will always reflect their coach. If Pop is putting half assed lineups who have never played together, what does he expect to happen? Pop set the tone for the poor effort against the Mavs, the players just followed his groundwork for the game.

Meh, that's a sorry excuse. These are pro NBA players

[dabom]

I wanna see what Bud can do with real superstars.

[dabom]

Meh, that's a sorry excuse. These are pro NBA players

Pop putting ty players with zero NBA experience. Wtf do you expect?

[bklynspursfan]

If Messina is Pop's successor I'll be pissed as . Udoka deserves it more than anyone else at this point.

I agree with this. But IMO, he's still gotta feel them out so he can make an informed decision. So why not give his assistant some freedom in a matchup against a depleted Dallas team?

It's all a learning/teaching experience, for them and the players.

People can blame Pop all they want, but these guys should know how to make smart chest/bounce passes. They were super lazy out there in the first half. And defensively, not enough communication

[spursistan]

Bud was a yes-man too tbh, but he at least brought new ideas and wasn't afraid to voice them.

Honestly, Messina has been such a useless addition as Poop lead assistant..Not sure what he has brought to the table, but talking Pop out of his pigheaded ways is definitely not one them..That he hasn't nailed a HC job after interviewing for few of them has me wondering about his true coaching pedigree.

[TheGreatYacht]

Kyle Anderson is 100%, without a doubt, the worst player I've ever seen.

He's averaging 2 points in 17MPG.. shooting 36% from the floor.

The Kendrick Perkins of Small Forwards

[dabom]

Kyle Anderson is 100%, without a doubt, the worst player I've ever seen.

He's averaging 2 points in 17MPG.. shooting 36% from the floor.

The Kendrick Perkins of Small Forwards

Are you ing serious dude?

[TheGreatYacht]

Are you ing serious dude?

5 points Per36 minutes

[dabom]

5 points Per36 minutes

What about his assist numbers? Dude is supposed to be offensive ace.

[TheGreatYacht]

What about his assist numbers? Dude is supposed to be offensive ace.

0.9 assists per game

1.9 Per36 minutes