Reply With Quote
He needs to cut out the 3 pointers & work on his floater/mid-range, MCW won ROY while shooting 25% from 3 & Murray was essentially the MCW of the NCAA.
There's no natural replacement for TP though. I don't see the Spurs have signed any guard that TP should be mentoring to take over his role next season.
They're two largely different situations (and I want TP to do well, he's just had two-three poor seasons past February, just makes you wonder, since there's apparently no plan B outside of Patty).
He needs to cut out the 3 pointers & work on his floater/mid-range, MCW won ROY while shooting 25% from 3 & Murray was essentially the MCW of the NCAA.
Tony is critical to the Spurs' success. When he has played this season, he has played well for the most part. And he also seems to be making the transition to his new role.
Trump in charge!!!!
Just because SA didn't do their job in getting someone to help TP doesn't mean he's not in the same boat.
I think Simmons has been doing a lot more ball-handling this season - primarily for Pop to monitor his potential to play more PG.
But they're not. IMO, the plan this season is not to rely (much) on Manu come playoff time, instead offload more of that on Simmons and/or Kyle. At least one could glean that coming into the season.
There's no such plans for TP. I'm not saying that's TP's fault either, but it's a completely different 'boat' we're looking at here.
Plan B was suppose to be Manu. You don't triple your original offer price just because another team makes an offer unless you feel Ginobili can be a huge contributor. You shouldn't be making sentimental decisions when trying to run a business unless you're trying to run the business into the ground. If another team did what the Spurs did with Manu, they'd be laughed at and ridiculed by every single member of Spurstalk. As far as I'm concerned, Parker gets a get out of jail free card as long as Ginobili continues to play this poorly for the remainder of the season.
I don't want to hear anymore age comparisons.... Tony Parker has played 10,000+ more regular season minutes and 1500+ more playoff minutes than Ginobili at the highest level of basketball on the planet. That equates to an additional 6+ seasons. Manu has averaged 30 MPG twice in his career compared to Parker's eleven. Tony has every right to be tired and Gassed at age 34.
The plan is to let TP's contract run out and then re-sign him for a lot less while giving him a role off the bench. Unless you wanted Conley for a king's ransom this offseason, there wasn't a game changing PG available.
Hoop's on fire.
If Manu had played for the vet minimum, he would still have been the exact same player in these first 17 games. Not as good as we want, or the Spurs need. But his play has nothing to do with how much he's making.
The way I remember it, Manu getting paid didn't cost the Spurs roster, except for the spot Manu himself is taking up - it was just money out of Holt's pocket. If Holt wants to give up millions to compensate Manu for past contracts, and to make sure he retires a Spur? I don't care.
I wish Manu was playing better, and I hope he is by the playoffs. But I'm not sure what other player they could have legitimately landed that late in the offseason (they had to wait for Pau and others to sign first). And I'm not sure what better player they could have legitimately landed for the budget offer they could have given someone else.
He needs to cut out the 3 pointers & work on his floater/mid-range, MCW won ROY while shooting 25% from 3 & Murray was essentially the MCW of the NCAA.
Hard to argue with any of that. If he can improve his 3P shot, THEN he can take them. But this year he needs to quit shooting them. I still think his biggest asset is his athleticism, and there's a place for a slashing 2 guard. He could do the same thing that Simmons is starting to do, which is use his penetration to set up teammates. If he can't hang onto the ball well enough to slash, then he can't hang onto it enough to be a point.
Pop's own words, and I quote:
"Losing Tim made it absolutely imperative that we keep him," Popovich said Thursday. "To lose them both at the same time, it would've been like death by a thousands cuts. It would've been awful."
Where's the "huge contributor" there? Plan B? How about stop making stuff up?
Manu is there for cultural/corporate knowledge reasons, period. He obviously has *certain* value that go beyond the raw numbers, as the Spurs were not the only suitors for him at 39 years old this season, but let's stop pretending they have anything to do with stuff beyond mentoring, being a professional, leading by example, etc.
Anybody thinking the Spurs expect him to be some sort of catalyst in the playoffs is simply deluding themselves and setting themselves up for disappointment, tbh...
That's a very different role from TP though... It's obvious that drafting Murray they're trying to emulate a similar situation, but nobody in their right mind thinks the plan is for Murray to take over next season, nor that Tony is going to retire. They fully intend to ride Parker as a crucial part of this team in the playoffs. Therein lies the difference, and why it's not "the same boat".
Why does it has to be an elite PG? Simmons, who's being touted as Manu's replacement was found in what literally is the league's trash can. Kyle was drafted.
How hard is it to admit the team never had plans to find Parker replacement in the short term, and they're never going to move him? I'm totally at peace with that fact, but if you're going to bring up how much mileage he has, then there's absolutely a reason to when he completely breaks down and he's plan A, B and C...
Manu didn't cost the Spurs $14 Million in cap space, but he did cost them $5.6 Million. I think when you factor in the timing of the deals, the Spurs could have offered another player about $7 Million to play for them. I don't know who would take that in this market, though.
Whether he fills that role or not, Simmons will never be like Manu. BUT... I loved it when he made that turnover, and then hauled ass up the floor for the run-down block on the other end. That was very Manu-esque.
And I should add that people absolutely ed when Manu was plan A, B, C and he got hurt... you can find countless threads in this place about Manu's alleged fragility, etc.
I didn't know they could have s ed out $7M for another player. So I guess using his $5.6M isn't comparing apples to apples. Still, they did have to wait so late that the FA pickings were very slim. I'm still not so sure that $7M would have gotten anyone better, at that point. More likely they would have been able to over-pay a $3.5M player who wouldn't have been any better, and without playoff experience.
There's never been any prohibition here on trying to have things both ways.
Absolutely, some people just pretend to have short memory...There's never been any prohibition here on trying to have things both ways.
Yeah, I don't disagree. Some decent players went from smaller deals, but I can't think of very many $5-7-Million guys at all. Maybe they could have traded for one. But yeah, Manu's cap hold combined with some poor cap optimization gave them a slot. I don't think anyone is upset the Spurs didn't use that money on Lance Thomas, Wayne Ellington or Luis Scola.
Real-talk: I just went through the list of new signees. It made me want to throw up. Matt Barnes is the only guy I think would be a discussion to have now over Manu who was attainable.
Solid win.
That's coach speak for "I love you Manu. You're family and family sticks together." It sounds more like he's was trying to justify a one year, $14M contract. How does that quote make sense? Other than nostalgia purposes, how would losing the 2016-17 version of Ginobili be a death by a thousand cuts?
Okay, but he couldn't do that as an assistant coach? The Spurs could have put him on the payroll for $14M.
We don't know the Spurs intentions. My personal belief is that the Spurs plans were to have Murray ready by the time Parker's contract is up in two years but even that seems like a long shot. Tony isn't going to retire and he won't be traded unless he requests one but, Tony will at some point have a reduced role. After reading that quote you posted, are you saying the Spurs don't intend to ride Ginobili in the playoffs? It sounds like the Spurs not only need Ginobili to play well but they're counting on him to play well. Also, Parker is no longer a crucial part of the Spurs system. He just has to run the offense the best that he can by getting the ball into the hands of the shooters and creators while knocking down an occasional open jump shot. Ginobili, on the other hand, has been the glue that's held the bench together. His lack of postseason production along with Tim Duncan's decline over the last two years are two of the biggest reasons the Spurs haven't made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs.
Simmons as Manu's replacement? C'mon son, you're better than that.
With the rise in the salary cap, explain to me how the Spurs would be able to afford to bring in another guard, even on the cheap? C.J. McCollum and Jimmer Fredette were brought in as backups in the past but neither of them were any good. The Spurs also have an unhealthy obsession with trying to turn sg's into pg's. They tried to turn George Hill into a pg and it failed. They tried to turn Gary Neal into a pg, and it backfired immensely. They're now trying to turn Patty Mills into a pg and it's not working out. The PATFO isn't as smart as people make them out to be. They've made many mistakes over the years and they rarely ever get called out for it. The PATFO probably feels fine with Mills as defacto "plan B" pg if something happens to Parker.
So no plan B? No "huge contributor"? crofl
That quote only makes sense in the fact that the Spurs has a renowned culture of professionalism, unselfishness, etc that's well known around the league, thanks largely in part to guys like Timmy and Manu, and I suspect Pop wants to keep around for at least one more year to make sure the youngsters, of which this team has many, can see first hand how that works.
The only reason the Spurs would've preferred to keep him as an assistant coach is if they needed an open roster spot. I know you've been trying to understand how salaries and the cap works in the NBA for the past 5+ years, but no, the Spurs couldn't have used that money to sign anybody other than Manu or Bonner (or Boban, although it's debatable the Spurs wanted to commit that much money to him on a multi-year deal). This one year deal works great for the Spurs. It doesn't hamper them in capspace in the next few years, and they have plenty of young kids to send to the D-League if they need a roster spot (Forbes, Murray, etc).
That quote has everything to do with keeping around the tradition that made this team great for a long time. There's nothing there about numbers, minutes, production. No, I haven't expected the Spurs to rely on Manu in the playoffs since at least 2015, frankly, when Pop actually benched him for the first time closing out playoff games. End of an era right there. And it makes sense, he's 39. His 2014 run was as unexpected as it was incredible, frankly. Last year they even brought in insurance in Kevin Martin, because the kids weren't growing up fast enough and Pop already knew Manu isn't a difference maker on a consistent basis anymore.
As far as Tony, he's the starting PG and really has no compe ion for it. And it makes sense, Manu didn't have compe ion for his spot and neither did Tim when Pop thought they were THE guys at their positions. And all of them took heat (maybe Timmy less so, rightfully) when things didn't go their way. I don't disagree that Tony has a ton of mileage, but the Spurs knew that too, and really, there's clearly no transition in place right now. Maybe the plan was George Hill, but they had to abort in order to get Kawhi. Maybe this year that they drafted a PG, there's a hint something might be happening there, but I fully expect the Spurs to trust Tony with that starting spot until at least this deal is over, and maybe afterwards too. Tim never really lost his starting spot. Maybe Tony doesn't want to end his career coming off the bench. We do know he's going to end his career as a Spur though.
Of course Tim and Manu not being able to carry the load is a big part of why we've not been successful the last couple of seasons. That's how difficult it is to move on from Hall of Fame talent. The Spurs have been transitioning in the meantime, to LMA, Kawhi, and bringing in kids hoping they can be shaped into the complementary pieces this team needs. What the Spurs don't want is to completely lose the culture that the big 3 put in place. It's a process, and it might not work out. I've said last season the Spurs will have trouble moving on from Timmy and Manu retiring and championships will have to wait for a while. There's nothing unrealistic about that, IMO. It's not that Kawhi or LMA are not talented, but it even took Lebron a while once he took the reigns of the league to make it over the top. Winning championships is hard.
First of all, the Spurs have been looking for a backup SG to replace some of Manu's production for the last few seasons and that's really Simmons right now. Kyle makes relative sense only if they want to make him a PG and play Patty as SG. That's the only youngsters that survived from last season, so one would have to assume they're "projects" to an extent. Murray is also likely going to be a project going forward. Bertrans I think it's more of a guy that will stick around if health allows. He's more seasoned.Simmons as Manu's replacement? C'mon son, you're better than that.
With the rise in the salary cap, explain to me how the Spurs would be able to afford to bring in another guard, even on the cheap? C.J. McCollum and Jimmer Fredette were brought in as backups in the past but neither of them were any good. The Spurs also have an unhealthy obsession with trying to turn sg's into pg's. They tried to turn George Hill into a pg and it failed. They tried to turn Gary Neal into a pg, and it backfired immensely. They're now trying to turn Patty Mills into a pg and it's not working out. The PATFO isn't as smart as people make them out to be. They've made many mistakes over the years and they rarely ever get called out for it. The PATFO probably feels fine with Mills as defacto "plan B" pg if something happens to Parker.
Second, Patty Mills always played Point Guard. With Portland, with Australia and now with the Spurs. He's not a traditional PG if you will, but in that sense, Tony never has been either. They're scorers (in different ways) and that's apparently how Pop prefers them.
Third, the guard situation will probably merit some consideration in the offseason. I know Manu won't say it yet, but I do think it's likely this is his last year (although, from a capspace situation I don't think it would matter if he wanted to come back, as they could sign him with over the cap money like this season). Patty is going to be a free agent, and I expect some team to really throw some heavy money at him, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out. In a sense, I think that's why they have a QO on Lapro, as insurance, in case they feel like chasing some other FA with that money.
And lastly, the Spurs blew their cash in LMA, Kawhi and this season Gasol. The rest of the players with multi-year deals are on what any other team would deem reasonable deals (even Tony's deal, looking at how the cap increased, looks reasonable. Danny's deal is a bargain, tbh). So the Spurs need to make do with that they can scrape. They've done relatively well, I'd say, considering they've not had a top 10 pick in more than a decade.
Well spoken!
.
spurs 10-0 on the road... shooting 7% better from the field, 5% better from the line, and get 2 more blocks a game. so far.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions