Real Plus Minus for the Spurs

[Dex]

Good post tbh OP.

[YGWHI]

and they'd be worse

Agree.

The Spurs are also 10.1 points better per 100 possessions offensively when he's on the floor and give up 12.4 more points defensively when he's on the bench

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/116...-a-towel-waver

If you've got a high IQ and are unselfish, it's not difficult.

So you say that Kawhi doesn't make his teammates better, then you says a player has to be unselfish with a high IQ to do it...

Just hilarious. This the first time that I read a guy suggesting Kawhi is selfish and a low IQ player.

I get that Kawhi as the franchise player now, will receive a ton of criticism in every Spurs' loss, he's gonna be blamed for every Spurs loss...But if he plays well, good, great in those games I won't agree on burning him for it.

[TD 21]

Agree.

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/116...-a-towel-waver



So you say that Kawhi doesn't make his teammates better, then you says a player has to be unselfish with a high IQ to do it...

Just hilarious. This the first time that I read a guy suggesting Kawhi is selfish and a low IQ player.

I get that Kawhi as the franchise player now, will receive a ton of criticism in every Spurs' loss, he's gonna be blamed for every Spurs loss...But if he plays well, good, great in those games I won't agree on burning him for it.

Again, no reading comprehension. I specifically said, Leonard doesn't make his teammates better offensively in a direct way. In other words, he has tunnel vision and is terrible at making plays for others.

[dabom]

Again, no reading comprehension. I specifically said, Leonard doesn't make his teammates better offensively in a direct way. In other words, he has tunnel vision and is terrible at making plays for others.

Except he does. What are you smoking dude.

[dabom]

Kawhi draws doubles and triples with ease, spots up from 3 because he can space the floor, slashes/cuts off ball, runs the pnr and shoots with the clock running down all the time.

[TD 21]

Except he does. What are you smoking dude.

He doesn't. Of course they're significantly better when he's on the floor: he's arguably a top 5 player in the world and neither of his backups are proven rotation players.

[dabom]

He doesn't. Of course they're significantly better when he's on the floor: he's arguably a top 5 player in the world and neither of his backups are proven rotation players.

Brah he does. He draws the double or triple and even spots up Danny Patty Gasol and lma all the time...

[TD 21]

Brah he does. He draws the double or triple and even spots up Danny Patty Gasol and lma all the time...

He's like DeRozan in this regard: He generally only passes when he has to and they're almost always reactive and basic ones. He doesn't have the capacity to manipulate defenses.

[dabom]

He's like DeRozan in this regard: He generally only passes when he has to and they're almost always reactive and basic ones. He doesn't have the capacity to manipulate defenses.

We are debating whether he makes players around him better on offense. Clearly you are wrong here.

[TD 21]

We are debating whether he makes players around him better on offense. Clearly you are wrong here.

No, we're debating whether he makes players around him better in a direct (play making) way.

His assist percentage is a paltry 17.2%, an embarrassingly low number for a high usage (30.5%) perimeter player.

[tonight...you]

This is a fascinating discourse, you 2. Please continue...

[dabom]

I don't "blame" Leonard. I just think him and Pop get too much credit for the '12-'14 Spurs and he gets little to no criticism for not making his teammates better in a direct way (a staple of a superstar player) or his team underachieving in the playoffs (even if he did play well in '16).

Hopefully everyone is healthy this season so that people can't make excuses when this team is eliminated in the WCSF or WCF (if the Clippers suffer a significant injury before or during the WCSF).

No, we're debating whether he makes players around him better in a direct (play making) way.

His assist percentage is a paltry 17.2%, an embarrassingly low number for a high usage (30.5%) perimeter player.

First off all, players can make players around them better through the post game by sucking in multiple defenders and kicking out, and by normal playmaking. Both of those are direct. And the Spurs are known to keep passing it to the open man. Kawhi will not always be the assist man, but he is making players better either though the post or PnR action. And lets just say you switched your idea from directly to playmaking.

[dabom]

You need to stop being wrong here.

[TD 21]

And lets just say you switched your idea from directly to playmaking.

Nah, I just put the latter in brackets to make myself clear when I say directly because I know some will point to his on/off numbers and claim it's direct and it is, in a sense; just not the one I mean.

[dabom]

Nah, I just put the latter in brackets to make myself clear when I say directly because I know some will point to his on/off numbers and claim it's direct and it is, in a sense; just not the one I mean.

I'm not talking impact. I'm talking about his actual game.

[Kawhitstorm]

He's like DeRozan in this regard: He generally only passes when he has to and they're almost always reactive and basic ones. He doesn't have the capacity to manipulate defenses.

He's a scorer who is willing to pass when the defense collapses. LeBron is considered a scorer despite scoring more point that anyone in his age group b/c his first instinct isn't to score but rather set up teammates. Jordan/Bird were unstoppable offensive forces b/c they could do both at an elite level.

The issue is only when players are on the extreme end of either one: Kirby vs. Diaw