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  1. #26
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    As I write this, my children are asleep in their room, Loretta Lynn is on the stereo, and my wife is out on a date with a man named Paulo. It’s her second date this week; her fourth this month so far. If it goes like the others, she’ll come home in the middle of the night, crawl into bed beside me, and tell me all about how she and Paulo had sex. I won’t explode with anger or seethe with resentment. I’ll tell her it’s a hot story and I’m glad she had fun. It’s hot because she’s excited, and I’m glad because I’m a feminist.

    Before my wife started sleeping with other men, I certainly considered myself a feminist, but I really only understood it in the abstract. When I quit working to stay at home with the kids, I began to understand it on a whole new level. I am an economically dependent househusband coping with the withering drudgery of child-rearing. Now that I understand the reality of that situation, I don’t blame women for demanding more for themselves than the life of the housewife.

    Still, as a man, I could, if I wanted to, portray what I’m doing as “work,” and thus claim for myself the prestige men traditionally derive from “work.” Whenever I tell someone I stay home with the kids, they invariably say, “Hardest work in the world.” They say this because the only way to account for a man at home with the kids is to say what he’s doing is hard work. But there’s a subtext in the compliment that makes it backhanded: We both know no one ever says it to a woman. Mothers care; fathers provide care. The difference is crucial. Despite my total withdrawal from the economy and the traditional sources of masculine iden y, I can still argue I am a provider. I provide care.

    In this way, my masculine self-image was stretched but not broken. Diaper bag notwithstanding, I was still a Man. It wasn’t until my wife mentioned one evening that she’d kissed another man and liked it and wanted to do more than kiss next time that I realized how my status as a Man depended on a single fact: that my wife ed only me.

    ***

    When people ask how it started, I say this: We married young. She’d had sex before me, but only with a handful of people a handful of times. She never had a boyfriend, never had a lover. I was the first man she ever had the chance to get to know intimately. By her mid-30s, having already had our children and entering her sexual prime, she felt keenly her lack of sexual experience. Happily for me, she was willing to talk about it, willing to ask if I’d be open to exploring other options. We opened a bottle of wine and started talking, and talking, and talking.

    She didn’t present it as an issue of feminism to me, but after much soul-searching about why the idea of my wife having sex with other men bothered me I came to a few conclusions: Monogamy meant I controlled her sexual expression, and, not to get all women’s-studies major about it, patriarchal oppression essentially boils down to a man’s fear that a woman with sexual agency is a woman he can’t control. We aren’t afraid of their intellect or their spirit or their ability to bear children. We are afraid that when it comes time for sex, they won’t choose us. This petty fear has led us as a culture to place judgments on the entire spectrum of female sexual expression: If a woman likes sex, she’s a and a ; if she only likes sex with her husband or boyfriend, she’s boring and lame; if she doesn’t like sex at all, she’s frigid and unfeeling. Every option is a trap.

    Feminism always comes back to sex, even when we’re talking about everything else. The point isn’t that all women should be sexual adventurers. Celibacy is as valid an expression of sexuality as profligacy. The point is that it should be women who choose, not men — even the men they’re married to. For my wife, the choice between honoring our vows and fulfilling her desires was a false choice, another trap. She knew how deep our love was, and knew that her wanting a variety of sexual experiences as we traveled through life together would not diminish or disrupt that love. It took me about six months — many long, intense conversations, and an ocean of red wine — before I knew it, too.

    When my wife told me she wanted to open our marriage and take other lovers, she wasn’t rejecting me, she was embracing herself. When I understood that, I finally became a feminist.

    ***

    That was two years ago, and today we’ve never been happier, more in tune, closer, tighter, stronger. Whatever power I surrendered, I don’t miss. I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone, but I tell everyone it works for us.

    How does it work? We take turns going out. Because we have small children (ages 6 and 3), one of us stays home. (We don’t like to use babysitters because it gives us a curfew; we’d rather go out unfettered than worry about turning into a pumpkin at midnight.) Going out alone to hooking up with others was an easy transition. It does work both ways and, yes, I too enjoy sexual carte blanche. I just don’t use mine as much as my wife uses hers. What’s important is equality of opportunity, not outcome.

    How does it feel? It feels great ... mostly. Most of the time, it feels like a mature, responsible way to address our needs and desires within our loving, mutually supportive marriage. It feels very adult, especially because it depends on open, honest communication. We take great pride in all the talking we do. I meet a lot of people who say they’ll never get married because they don’t want to get divorced, and hearing it always makes me sad, because they are cutting themselves off from the possibility of the magic that happens when two people share their lives. People don’t divorce because they can’t stand sharing anymore; they divorce because they feel like they can’t share enough. I never forget that my wife is a whole person unto herself, a complete and dynamic individual, and though we are together, we’re not one. Too often people get trapped in the roles of husband and wife, and a gulf opens between what they think they should be and who they really are. Opening our marriage has allowed us to close that gap so that the person I call “wife” is the same person my wife sees in the mirror. Lying to each other begins with lying to yourself, and now we don’t have to lie to anyone.

    There are of course moments of jealousy, resentment, and insecurity. Recently, my wife went on a date and fell asleep at his apartment. I hadn’t heard from her since 10 p.m., she still wasn’t home at 6 a.m. My texts went unanswered and my calls went to voicemail. A tight knot of dread lodged in my stomach as I imagined all kinds of dire scenarios and realized that I not only didn’t know where she was, I had no idea whom she was with. I pictured myself going to the police saying, “I think she’s in Red Hook with a guy named Ryan. I don’t know his last name, but I think he’s a graphic designer?” I’m not sure there’s actually a word for the unique blend of acute terror and unforgivable shame I felt that morning imagining that I’d lost my wife to Ryan, the maybe graphic designer. When she finally texted me at 7:30 a.m., relief coursed through me like morphine. She wrote, “ Im soooooo sorry. Fell asleep.” I replied, “Just glad you’re ok, but next time, no radio silence. Remember: you’re not alone.”

    What surprises most people is when I tell them it’s not the sex-with-other-men that bothers me. The sex is the easy part, the fun part. It’s what the sex connects to, stands for, reveals that can be difficult. I don’t want her to fall in love with anyone else, and every time she goes on a date, I confront the possibility that she might. It happened at the beginning: The first person she dated after we opened up fell hard in love with her, and my wife, overwhelmed by his ardor, tried to love him back. Watching it happen, I was confused, angry, and terrified that she wanted to leave me. She assured me she didn’t, and whatever feelings she had for him didn’t lessen what she felt for me. Believing her then was the ultimate trust exercise. We survived because eventually I did believe her, and also because I learned to trust myself.

    This has been the great challenge of my open marriage: to draw strength from vulnerability. Doing so requires supreme self-confidence. You must first really, truly love yourself; it is the foundation upon which all the other love is built. From everywhere comes the message that what I’m doing is for weaklings, losers, failures, pussies; that if I had money and status, I could keep my wife “in line”; that her self-discovery comes at the expense of my self-esteem. My open marriage has made heavy demands on my ability to silence the voice of doubt in my head, that gnawing feeling of worthlessness. But I find I can meet those demands, and that I am able to build my self-confidence out of nothing more than the basic dignity we all possess. I’m grateful to my wife for pushing us to take this leap, and whatever happens to us in the future I would do it all again. And when she comes home tonight and crawls into bed beside me with a hot story about her date with Paulo, she’ll do it all again, too. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Okay, who are you quoting?
    I missed this one and I know this ain't my boy, Bene.

  2. #27
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Yea, thanks... and I do not take it seriously. Its really easy to fend off, but it gets old quickly and from my perspective, I don't care to deal with the childish behavior. It's harassment to me. I got no sense of humor about it.
    You're the only frequently commenting female on the site, right now... I believe.
    You're a focal point to some. We all know who, but you's good people. Keep fighting the good fight.

  3. #28
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    Man, some of you are so hypocritical. Have you forgotten all the years Tim showed up for camp out of shape, and still wasn't ready a month later? And Pop just let it slide?

    (I decided I better go ahead and put that in blue, to avoid the inevitable death threats.)

  4. #29
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    Yea, thanks... and I do not take it seriously. Its really easy to fend off, but it gets old quickly and from my perspective, I don't care to deal with the childish behavior. It's harassment to me. I got no sense of humor about it.

    On the plus side, I don't think anyone here has ever called you " got". You have to learn to take the bad with the good.

  5. #30
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    Yea, thanks... and I do not take it seriously. Its really easy to fend off, but it gets old quickly and from my perspective, I don't care to deal with the childish behavior. It's harassment to me. I got no sense of humor about it.
    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?

  6. #31
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?
    What.The.Actual.F*ck

  7. #32
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    What.The.Actual.F*ck
    Why else put "girl" in a cesspool board. I mean come on.

    I don't go to the hood at night and blame the people that rob me.

  8. #33
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?
    Why can't I be myself really?

  9. #34
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Is this code for sex?
    "Cheese pizza"

  10. #35
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    You're the only frequently commenting female on the site, right now... I believe.
    You're a focal point to some. We all know who, but you's good people. Keep fighting the good fight.

  11. #36
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?
    Holy !

    Posting on a sports site? With a female handle?

    So how far do you go with this? Is rape deserved?

  12. #37
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    Why has this thread gone more than one page without the coining of "porkridge." You guys have lost a step, smh

  13. #38
    Believe.
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    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?
    I know, anybody who advertises theyre from San Antonio is just asking for trouble.

    Seriously though, stop being a dip !

  14. #39
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    Why can't I be myself really?
    You need a username to be yourself?

    The point is, you weren't going to be able to change people's behavior on the internet, but you could have avoided what you deem "harassment" by choosing a different username.

  15. #40
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    On the plus side, I don't think anyone here has ever called you " got". You have to learn to take the bad with the good.
    Yea..
    there is a silver lining to everything right?

    Really only Splits and Ihustle get on with the sexual repertoire almost constantly. Ihustle is in my ignore list due to that. Splits gets in and out of it, I'd rather not ignore him, but when he starts bother me on the ignore list he goes. He comes off to everyone like Dex said... it's not a personal thing. I just have no tolerance for sexual harrassment. I thought I'd made it be known.. and I think DJR was just making a joke. I just prefer to raise the stop sign early and not lead anyone on.

  16. #41
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    You need a username to be yourself?

    The point is, you weren't going to be able to change people's behavior on the internet, but you could have avoided what you deem "harassment" altogether by choosing a different username.
    Just go ahead and grab her by the pussy. You know you want to.

  17. #42
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    You need a username to be yourself?

    The point is, you weren't going to be able to change people's behavior on the internet, but you could have avoided what you deem "harassment" altogether by choosing a different username.
    By quirks of my personality, if ppl guys didn't know I am female, I think i'd be called got and who knows what else. I have a personality and I prefer to be up front that I am female for what that is worth. That is not an invitation for anyone to think I am welcoming sexual remarks.

  18. #43
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    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?

  19. #44
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    By quirks of my personality, if ppl guys didn't know I am female, I think i'd be called got and who knows what else. I have a personality and I prefer to be up front that I am female for what that is worth. That is not an invitation for anyone to think I am welcoming sexual remarks.
    I didn't say you were welcoming it, just that you should have anticipated it. Don't confuse that with my condoning it or blaming you though.

  20. #45
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Female does not mean come on to me hard. ... lol some of you guys are so inmature.. it's like we are back in the prehistoric times. You want to hit my head with a club and take me to your cave too? You know bc I am female...

  21. #46
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    Why else put "girl" in a cesspool board. I mean come on.

    I don't go to the hood at night and blame the people that rob me.
    How are you the only one that gets what I'm saying? Are people really this stupid?

  22. #47
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    Not to excuse those who resort to that, but it's like an attractive, scantily clad woman complaining about unwanted attention: you had to know that was coming, so why choose the username you did, then?
    Holy !

    Posting on a sports site? With a female handle?

    So how far do you go with this? Is rape deserved?

    First one person makes an ignorant comment. Then another has to prove that he can top it.

    I wonder sometimes how some of you exist outside of internet chat boards.

  23. #48
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    How are you the only one that gets what I'm saying? Are people really this stupid?
    I get what you are saying but you are not the only male in this board. Do you get what I am saying: that I am sending a message not just intended for you? or are you that stupid and arrogant on top too?

    ...well I don' think you are stupid but you have an arrogant personality.

  24. #49
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    How are you the only one that gets what I'm saying? Are people really this stupid?
    TD, I like you, I don't think you meant anything malicious (no matter how it comes off). But if you find yourself agreeing with daboom it's gut check time buddy.

  25. #50
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    First one person makes an ignorant comment. Then another has to prove that he can top it.

    I wonder sometimes how some of you exist outside of internet chat boards.
    thanks
    GSH. I know what you did there.

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