Rank our backcourt rotation compared to the rest of the league.

[Kawhitstorm]

At least you still aren't pushing for this trade. Ian is toxic.

PATFO wouldn't have paid Ian 70 mill:

For about 10mill per, Ian would have been a better fit alongside LMA than Gasoft.

[SAGirl]

People dogging Danny are the worst kind of ST's. Don't bring that ish my way tbh..

Yea
I agree. I give you thumbs up. Not on Danny, he's a great roleplayer.
it's really the former star playmaking guards are not who they are supposed to be anymore.

It is what it is... age catches everyone and it is not pretty at the end.

Can't include Simms in this. He's fine for his role in the rotation and has improved a lot. But obviously he's not going to save Tony and Manu from themselves... or Patty from a night in which his size, while being guarded by size/length and athleticism causes him to TO the ball bc he can't get out clean passes. He's a fine backup PG and is on a very low salary for his production.

This one is Tony/Manu.

[HarlemHeat37]

And personally speaking..while it's true that I was one of the leaders of the anti-Parker movement on ST, that was 2 years ago..I haven't said anything bad about him in a long time, tbh, I've been mostly supportive, actually..

I don't criticize him anymore, because it doesn't make any sense IMO..he didn't put himself in this role, Pop and RC did..it doesn't make sense to on a broken down PG with a ton of mileage when he shouldn't be starting for an aspiring contender..

[DPG21920]

Yup - I still think SA will ultimately be very good this year. This is going to take some time. But it's on TP/Manu's decline and no real answer for that.

LMA/Pau/Kawhi/Danny is all-star level starting lineup if they had more consistent guard play. The bench with Mills/Lee/Dedmon/Bertans/Etc.. is quality.

The team is damn close.

[Chinook]

PATFO wouldn't have paid Ian 70 mill:

For about 10mill per, Ian would have been a better fit alongside LMA than Gasoft.

Good thing he was an RFA so the Spurs could force him to take their offer.

If there is any truth to the idea that you have multiple accounts, you're letting your gambit persona shine through a bit too much.

[ElNono]

Clippers: J.J. Re . As I've said before, he's deadly from 16-23 feet, meaning he can burn defenders with pull up midrange J's when they close on him.

Warriors: Klay Thompson. Overrated, sure, but a much better all around offensive player than Danny.

Cavs: J.R. Smith. Even though super athletic, he's generally a spot up shooter today. Difference is, the Cavs have Lebron and Kyrie in front of him on the perimeter pecking order.

Danny is, quite literally, our second best perimeter player. The impetus was on him to develop a backup weapon in addition to his spot up 3 point shooting. Yeah, I know he'll never be a penetrator, but there is no conceivable reason he couldn't add a consistent 15 footer to his game.

This is all I ask from Danny.

12 points, 2-5 3pt, 2-5 from 2, 2-2 FT type of games.

Re does it in his sleep.

Don't completely disagree with the frustration, tbh, I brought up the same question about two seasons ago, IIRC...

Yet, even if we were to argue Danny is very limited, he's getting paid as such a player, and he arguably has great value defensively.

Even if he would be JJ Red , I don't know if I want him to take shots away from LMA or Kawhi, or even Pau to an extent (he's doing the midrange game, and well)

Seriously, this team some nights just has an at ude problem... even Timmy, who was the quiet leader, would show you he had that extra gear here or there in the regular season. I don't see that from guys like Carmelo, tbh... you get whatever he feels like any given night. If he's hitting, you'll get the double-tap and the puffed chest, and if he's not, oh well, here comes the L...

[houston spurs fan]

And personally speaking..while it's true that I was one of the leaders of the anti-Parker movement on ST, that was 2 years ago..I haven't said anything bad about him in a long time, tbh, I've been mostly supportive, actually..

I don't criticize him anymore, because it doesn't make any sense IMO..he didn't put himself in this role, Pop and RC did..it doesn't make sense to on a broken down PG with a ton of mileage when he shouldn't be starting for an aspiring contender..

Problem with all of your "movements". They fizzle.......and fizzle... and yawn...

[Chinook]

Still didn't answer the question.

What's stopping Danny from developing a midrange pull-up when the 3 ball is being taken away?

"It's not his game!"

Kawhi with his big ass hands, mechanics, and non-existent jumpshot skillset coming out of college developed himself into one of, if not the best, mid-range jump shooters in the game.

Your point is irrelevant. Danny is shaky at best at creating. Still a legit starter. Has the ring to prove it.

[midnightpulp]

Sucks that the Spurs couldn't foresee that Dedmon and Lee would become such productive players, tbh..neither could start for a full load of minutes, but they could have been good enough to split them..

The Gasol signing was such a waste, unfortunately..easier said in hindsight, as both Dedmon and Lee were question marks, but still..very pointless..

Those two as paint anchors?



If you're going to play smallball with LMA at center, Lee at the 4 (a horrible defender), you need elite 3 point volume shooting to offset the points you'll concede in the paint. I don't think the Spurs turn themselves into a Wardellball team with any pickup in FA, especially considering Parker would still be starting. The plan was to go big while they go small, and in theory, it could work, but our ty backcourt rotation doesn't provide enough consistent scoring to make any scheme work right now.

I know the bigs are the trendy thing to blame right now, but when Parker and company are averaging 42 points per game over 5 players, you're going to have problems keeping up with high octane teams.

[timtonymanu]

We have to accept that TP is a made man, just like Bonner was for the Spurs. He will never, under ANY cir stance be traded.

And that's why it doesn't make sense to harp on Danny's shortcomings. Spurs won't trade Parker and they will have to live with it until he's a free agent. Parker is too old to be starting on a team trying to compete for a championship. You just have to hope he can play like November Parker all year but it hasn't happened or been consistent in the playoffs the last two years.

[Boomersgold]

If patty is asking for 10 million dollars a year next year...I say dobt even bother resigning that ..although i heard the spurs have his bird rights.

Why sign Patty for 10 when you can sign Manu for 14 and Parker for 15. They're clearly worth it.

[DPG21920]

There is no argument against Danny as a legit starter on a legit contender. If he was any better (like JJ Red on offense) he would be a top 30 player

He's fine and a great proven piece.

I honestly feel, and it's hard to quantify, that this team has no leader with Tim gone. Obviously that is a huge piece to lose but its shocking how there doesn't seem to be any spirit on this team.

A lot of talent, good guys, play hard, but there is no emotional leader with any gravity. Pop seems too old to be that guy, TP/Manu have diminished too much even if they are respected. Pau is new and never has been that way. LMA has never been that guy. Kawhi is naturally quiet even if he is being slightly more vocal on the floor.

There is no heartbeat player.

[midnightpulp]

Don't completely disagree with the frustration, tbh, I brought up the same question about two seasons ago, IIRC...

Yet, even if we were to argue Danny is very limited, he's getting paid as such a player, and he arguably has great value defensively.

Even if he would be JJ Red , I don't know if I want him to take shots away from LMA or Kawhi, or even Pau to an extent (he's doing the midrange game, and well)

Seriously, this team some nights just has an at ude problem... even Timmy, who was the quiet leader, would show you he had that extra gear here or there in the regular season. I don't see that from guys like Carmelo, tbh... you get whatever he feels like any given night. If he's hitting, you'll get the double-tap and the puffed chest, and if he's not, oh well, here comes the L...

i think he needs to take shots away. If you just force feed the frontline with the most shots, our offense is piss easy to defend. Pau was also brought in to be like an 8-8 type of player. I don't think Pop and Co. envisioned him as the 3rd dog. I guess they still held out hope Parker could once again be a consistent 13ish ppg or more type of scorer.

[SAGirl]

Btw, I actually agree that the Spurs should look to move Green, especially if he continues shooting well..he has one of the friendliest contracts in the NBA, they could probably get a piece for him in a package..

The reason they should do it is because they clearly don't have any interest on fixing the PG position in the next 2 years, there's virtually no chance that Parker will be benched..if that's the case, they might as well look for a different type of SG and attempt to transition TP into a role player, if possible(spot-up shooter/defender, which is unlikely, but maybe he can carve out a new niche)..

That's a tragedy to me but I know you mean that with sincerest heartfelt desire to make the team better within Pop's parameters of not trading Tony out. That is doing Danny dirty though, he took less to remain in the Spurs. I can't see the Spurs doing that to him either.

[ElNono]

There is no argument against Danny as a legit starter on a legit contender. If he was any better (like JJ Red on offense) he would be a top 30 player

He's fine and a great proven piece.

I honestly feel, and it's hard to quantify, that this team has no leader with Tim gone. Obviously that is a huge piece to lose but its shocking how there doesn't seem to be any spirit on this team.

A lot of talent, good guys, play hard, but there is no emotional leader with any gravity. Pop seems too old to be that guy, TP/Manu have diminished too much even if they are respected. Pau is new and never has been that way. LMA has never been that guy. Kawhi is naturally quiet even if he is being slightly more vocal on the floor.

There is no heartbeat player.

Agreed (although we'll put this in perspective, we are 14-4). It was one of the main fears I had last season when I mentioned I didn't think the Spurs would ring for a while after the retirement.

It's not insurmountable, but it's going to take some time. Right now it looks like we're going to need a few injuries, luck to go our way to go all the way.

[MaNu4Tres]

Pau was a waste this offseason.

Hated it at the time & hate it now. He'll have his moments vs bad teams like the Kings, but this team may be locked into mediocrity the next 2 yrs with Pau likely opting in & TPs contract..

They needed to bring in versatile youth like Harkless & Terrence Jones and should have made a better offer for Jeff Teague ( Mills & Diaw + 1st at around the draft).

Spurs may be two yrs away from making the type of moves they should have made last summer.

[GSH]

Yup - I still think SA will ultimately be very good this year. This is going to take some time. But it's on TP/Manu's decline and no real answer for that.

LMA/Pau/Kawhi/Danny is all-star level starting lineup if they had more consistent guard play. The bench with Mills/Lee/Dedmon/Bertans/Etc.. is quality.

The team is damn close.

On paper. And I agreed with you right before the season started. But unless Pau and LMA are doing the rope-a-dope, and saving it all up for the playoffs, I'm not seeing all-star level effort. If you're right, then Pop needs to get back to earning his accolades. Sitting back and letting them figure it out isn't getting it done.

Be honest - do Pop, LMA, and Pau look like three guys who are single-mindedly driven by the prospect of winning a championship in the here-and-now? I know it's easy to be critical from the comfort of a couch. But I've seen teams, players, and coaches look that way enough times, and I really don't see it on this team right now. They all three look like they are going through the motions. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it will change in the upcoming months. But I think you're looking at who they could be.

[DPG21920]

Agreed (although we'll put this in perspective, we are 14-4). It was one of the main fears I had last season when I mentioned I didn't think the Spurs would ring for a while after the retirement.

It's not insurmountable, but it's going to take some time. Right now it looks like we're going to need a few injuries, luck to go our way to go all the way.

Exactly - the team is still really good with a solid ceiling. But we see the margin for error is nil because of TP/Manu and there is still work to do with guys fitting in/coaching.

It all sounds poetic and dramatic but these are rich people problems tbh..

[DPG21920]

On paper. And I agreed with you right before the season started. But unless Pau and LMA are doing the rope-a-dope, and saving it all up for the playoffs, I'm not seeing all-star level effort. If you're right, then Pop needs to get back to earning his accolades. Sitting back and letting them figure it out isn't getting it done.

Be honest - do Pop, LMA, and Pau look like three guys who are single-mindedly driven by the prospect of winning a championship in the here-and-now? I know it's easy to be critical from the comfort of a couch. But I've seen teams, players, and coaches look that way enough times, and I really don't see it on this team right now. They all three look like they are going through the motions. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it will change in the upcoming months. But I think you're looking at who they could be.

Well right now with all the doom and gloom they are still a top 3 team in the West. But I'm definitely looking at who they could be for sure. It's not guaranteed to get their either.

[midnightpulp]

Eh, that's not how it works

Green is the role player, not a go-to option on the perimeter, that's Kawhi and Parker, by design(not that Danny could do it, anyways, he can't)..he isn't Re , he's Mbah a Moute..he isn't Klay, he's Harrison Barnes..he isn't Derozan, he's Demarre Carroll..

His job is to make 3s and play defense..when he isn't doing either of those, he deserves criticism..he has never been asked to carry the load as a creator(outside of small stretches in 2014-2015) and he never will be, that isn't his job..

And yes, Re is a better offensive player than Green..they're completely different players, though..Re is a major option for the Clippers, part of their offense is designed around him, he's much more involved in their offense than Danny is for the Spurs, obviously..at this point, he isn't even a role player..

There should be nothing keeping Danny from adding a pump fake plus pull-up midrange shot to his game. When he's closed out on quickly, the offense often stalls to a halt and Danny is forced to pass it back to a scorer (Kawhi, Parker, LMA) for a forced shot.

Kawhi added it with all of his physical (big hands, poor dribbler) and experiential (was never a creator in college) limitations. Danny should be more than able. 4 points more from him via jumpers off defender closeouts would be a boon. And you wouldn't have to redesign the system/offense at all.

He's always came off as kind of a corny swag to me, so I could see him just chilling in clubs and such during the offseason after the contract instead of gym-ratting like Kawhi.

[Kawhitstorm]

Good thing he was an RFA so the Spurs could force him to take their offer.

My point was that let him walk like the Pacers did if he got an offer more than 10 mills.
The trade I proposed was basically Danny for Hill & Fat Head for Ian (as a backup center ala Dedmon).

[SAGirl]

There's no quick fix here, tbh... if you're gonna put it on one guy, it gotta be Pop... this team goes from largely amazing on the road to lethargic at home. It's not about calling people soft, it's about doing something about it.

You can have bad shooting nights. Tonight was one of those nights. But there's no excuse to coast at home, and most of the loses had a big dose of that.

It's alarming. From a team that went 40-1 at home last season to this. And they have declined on defense. Going into this game they were ranked 13th... when, when in the Duncan era were they 13th? They can't get stops when they need them. I can't seriously consider a contender a team with a 13th ranked defense that has no explosive scoring from it's guards. I put it on PATFO, bc roster construction... the outlook of this team even starts with him.

[Keepin' it real]

Rank our backcourt rotation

[Kawhitstorm]

Pau was a waste this offseason.

Hated it at the time & hate it now. He'll have his moments vs bad teams like the Kings, but this team may be locked into mediocrity the next 2 yrs with Pau likely opting in & TPs contract..

It seems to me like Pop is going to retire when Porker's contract runs out so he doesn't want anything to do w/ player development. He's just going to keep signing vets & let them figure out the system on the fly while they play rotation minutes.

[SAGirl]

Sucks that the Spurs couldn't foresee that Dedmon and Lee would become such productive players, tbh..neither could start for a full load of minutes, but they could have been good enough to split them..

The Gasol signing was such a waste, unfortunately..easier said in hindsight, as both Dedmon and Lee were question marks, but still..very pointless..

Agreed
100%
It's a waste. He is getting benched against small teams which is half the league and a lot of benches... (I don't really know, but it's a lot of teams). He was getting killed against GSW, he got benched against Celtics. He got benched against the Magic... the Magic? He's had 0 scoring games already (Celtics).. he looks like a statue defending .. or rather not moving... rebounds fly past him at times. He's had his share of low scoring games etc. There is just not enough to feed both him and LMA enough shots and it did make the team unbalanced. Bertans is a legit NBA prospect and he can't find playing time without Pop benching other guys. Pau is the perfect guy to trade if they would rather keep LMA.

And I have liked MVPau in other aspects... his passing, his shooting, he's had a lot of impact on offense... but clearly, he's not being fully utilized either when the team is playing small (as we have seen) and the Spurs don't have a single elite playmaking guard. I think Simmons is trying to be that. He's a some good games and has been making good decisions for others, but obviously he cannot be your best playmaking guard if you are the Spurs.