Some have claimed Kawhi's defense has taken a major hit due to his DRTG/DBPM, etc...
I agree there has been some slippage, but not nearly what the stats reflect. Matt Moore of CBS sports pointed out what Butler was doing last night, basically leaving Kawhi in no mans land on a couple plays.
He is basically left away from all the action unable to help, and driving into the lane will usually result in points based off Pau being out there, vs Duncan last year. I'm wondering if other teams use this method as well, I'd be interested to go back and see if other teams/players deployed this strategy. It would make sense as to why there's some droppage in his numbers. I truly think come January, if the defense remains this poor, we'll see Dedmon starting over Pau. That could be the minor tweak needed to get that SL going again.
He's going to explain a bit why Kawhi's numbers say one thing, when his effort/play might show another. I'll update the OP once its up.
That's obvious the reason.
Kawhi defensive stats this season are more related to his teammates' defense than his own defense.
The defense needs a change...Unlike Pop, everyone realizes it.
People like to blame our offense for the slow starts but the defense had something to do...A team can 'safety' miss shots if the rival isn't scoring that much.
Wing defenders are always going to be limited in their impact. Which is why big man who can play defense have always been much more valuable.
We saw how Kawhi individul defense on his guy is still great. We saw him shutting down Klay, Gay, Wiggins, Butler, this season.
When those guys wanted to attack Kawhi, he contested his shots and they missed a lot.
But if the opposite main scorer is 4-14 but his teammates are scoring on the rest of the Spurs like Wade last game, that's a problem.
That happened this season when opposite teams attack Parker, Gasol, LMA, with Kawhi on the court on the other side...
And sadly, we'll see it again in a playoffs seriees against Clippers, with JJ helping to corner Kawhi, and letting CP3/Blake/Jordan destroying the Spurs in P&Rs.
Last edited by YGWHI; 12-09-2016 at 10:26 PM.
I guess in the Finals, getting LeBron parking in the corner and not being dominant on offense to anulate Kawhi is a great thing.
The issue is Irving and Love scoring on Parker, Gasol, LMA...
But a good rim protector can maximize wings defense, instead of that Spurs opted to sign Pau Gasol.
Big men need wing defenders(IE Anthony Davis) and wing defenders need big men. But overall a great big man has a bigger defensive impact IMO
As far as the Pau signing, was never a fan. He's been mailing it in on defense for years(~2012), even if he has glimpses where he's ok. If we didn't sign him, and Manu retired I think we might've been able to get Biyombo. No idea how he's doing so far this year, but he was a guy I was hoping PATFO went for.
That just looks like Butler providing the proper spacing. I'm not seeing what's so unusual about that.
That LMA/Pau combo is such disgrace.. in trade these two soft asses..
Its something that's apparently being done often. There were some examples against Orlando too. The guy Kawhi is guarding keeps him further from the play so he can't be effective.
This particular play you're right, but it's just an example. Butler was pretty much keeping away and letting guys drive in at will .
I honestly do expect Pop to have Dedmon starting sooner than later. But he hurts his case with the fouling, and if he's committing those fouls against 2nd units, he'll for sure struggle against SL's.
I knew it was the reason, but folks on here weren't buying into it. I was just glad it was being pointed out now. Context is always important when people start throwing out certain stats.
Like I said tho, I do think Pop will make the necessary adjustment re Pau. It's just going to take a bit more time. Probably another month or so.
It's not impossible to explain away his defensive numbers, but it's not easy. Right now, the Spurs defense gets better without him by a good portion. If that holds up for a season, everything else is just an excuse.
Quality thread, OP.
I actually wanted Biyombo last off-season as a bench big. I mentioned his name, but no-one else here seemed interested based on his play with the Hornets. I thought he's a good athletic shot blocker that can rebound the ball. Would have been really great for last season's team off the bench.
The SL has given up so many big first quarters this season, it's getting to be routine. Last year's defense was so much better, it was in another class. The only difference in the lineup this year is Pau instead of Tim. Kawhi may or may not be playing as well - same for Aldridge. But there is no doubt that having Tim in the middle as a defensive anchor made everyone else better. With Pau providing so little interior defense, the perimeter defenders have to be perfect. That's going to change the numbers.
A lot of teams look at deflections as part of their evaluation of perimeter defense. It's not the whole story, obviously, but it's part of the picture that we don't usually get to see. I'd like to know how Kawhi's stack up this year, compared to last. I know there are some stat tracking services that track deflections, but I don't know of any that can be accessed for free.
too much of a liability
If you're talking about this, he's elite this season.
wingstop worked best with timmy because they made sure there was only one possible lane to a shot and timmy only had to block that one. our bigs need to develop chemistry on the help side, it's vital. And david lee needs to FO
There was a big discussion about it at Sloan a couple of years back. I don't think that NBA.com stat is as good as some others that are being collected, but it still has value I'm sure. Do you have the numbers for the last couple of seasons to compare?
There are some coaches/assistants in the league who swear by deflections as one of the best metrics for individual perimeter defense. You can understand Draymond and CP3 being on that list. Covington is playing on that ty Sixers team, and gambling a lot on D, but he's still under-rated by most people. He would actually be a good pickup for the Spurs, at the right price. It makes sense that he is high on the deflections list. He's disruptive as out on the perimeter. A few years ago, he would probably have gone for cheap, but there are too many people watching stats like deflections and passes-denied now.
No, it'd be nice to have those numbers too.
About stats from other sites, I follow follow NylonCalculus on Twitter and they had these deflection stats on November, Kawhi was 5.2 a bit higher than now, and obviously still elite.
But it also shouldn't be immediately attributed to some significant drop off by him on the defensive end either. It's more about the schemes run while he's out there
Wow, very nice. Especially good to get it on a /40 basis. Thanks for that.
Not a whole lot of surprises on that list, are there? Except maybe Seth Curry as an undrafted free agent. He's looking better all the time. If he cleans up that 3P stroke, a lot of people are going to be kicking themselves.
So numbers prove that Kiwi was riding Tim's coattails? And kiwistans thinks this argument is in his favor?
So numbers prove that Kiwi was riding Tim's coattails? And kiwistans thinks this argument is in his favor?
Says the guy riding Cam Newton's .
Some quotes from here.. Mostly stuff we knew already, but sharing anyway/
It hasn't mattered... yet. To beat a dead horse, the Spurs are 10th in defense with the second-best record in the league. They are top-ten in offense as well. Kawhi Leonard, in particular, has been MVP-level good offensively. He's so efficient in every area it's borderline insane. He's an elite player and his control of the game has never been higher. This isn't about whether Leonard is a good defender or not; he clearly, obviously is. It's about the fact that the Spurs have a problem which doesn't matter now but will matter a whole lot when they get into a playoff series vs. the Clippers, Rockets or Warriors, any one of which can sacrifice their small forward's scoring and carve up the rest.It really is the other guys. The Spurs are 26th in the league in points per possession created by the pick-and-roll ball-handler. Tony Parker is in the 6th (!!!) percentile, Pau Gasol the 30th percentile, LaMarcus Aldridge the 37th percentile. This does not bode well for their future. Those are not players who are going to suddenly grow and develop. They are not going to improve. This is who who they are. They can get better as a unit, certainly, but there were warning signs about these combos going into the year, but we assumed the Spurs would do well enough to figure them out. They've figured out all the combinations around them, which is why they all have better defensive ratings than Leonard and still have, again, the 10th-best defense. But in a playoff environment? This is worrisome.
There are good defensive combos, still. Patty Mills and Dewayne Dedmon, in particular, have been great, and that's evident when you watch them. Don't be surprised if those guys play big minutes in the playoffs.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ka...ing-the-spurs/
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