Where does Tony Parker rank in the best PGs of all-time debate?

[Clipper Nation]

Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

[lefty]

Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

[lefty]

Isiah finished his career as 3rd all time leader in assists(but has since been passed by a few guys). He retired after only 12 seaons with an achilles tear late in his last season. Being great is not only doing great things with the ball, but knowing a mismatch on your team and allowing your teammates to exploit it(Joe Dumars 89 finals). Jordan wasn't a great 3 point shooter either. I dont know his % but I can guarantee you that it's VERY low. Guys like Isiah and Jordan didn't shoot manny 3's. Isiah came up during a time in which the 3 point shot was still new to the nba. The NBA first got the 3 point line in 1980, Isiah was drafted in 81. Same with Bernard King. These guys simply didn't shoot a lot of 3 pointers so that argument you're making is ridiculous. As for being a turnover machine, I didn't even have to google stats to know that's bull . Have watched both players during their time in the NBA. but I did google stats anyway and guess what I found? hmmm, Thomas only averaged 1.4 more turnovers per game than parker, but 3.4 assists more per game. Add in that Thomas played in an era in which you didn't know if were going to be clotheslined, sabbed, or shot driving into the lane and all of those things were just regular fouls. You were aware that Jordan was a ty 3 point shooter aren't you? Do you know what Jordan's score was during the 1990 3 point shoot out? Do you even know his all time %? You're welcome..

My


can't believe Porkerstans are comparing that got to Zele

Actually I do

[J_Paco]

Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

You ing clowns will claim anything. No one threw the best PF/C ever, arguably the best teammate/leader and a top 5 all-time great "under the bus," you clowns.

Let me rephrase that, I'm not dissing Timmy to prop up Tony.

[J_Paco]

In the playoffs, 06-14 (apparently parkers best years)-
Parker 2173 fga.. 531ts
Duncan 1952 fga . 543ts
Manu 1421 fga.. 574ts

Tony fans talking about him leading the team in scoring when he took +10% more shots than the next closest player
As a PG
Tony fans talking up his 3pt % as if it were relevant

Tony is a great player, best spurs PG and somewhere in the top 20-25 at his position for me. It's difficult to rate him there because he was more scorer than point and playing in San Antonio all of the big 3 sacrificed personal stats. By the traditional standard Parker was a mediocre PG, but as a scorer / slasher he is top 5 easy.

The argument being made against him was that "he never won as a first-option" but that is untrue since the Spurs did exactly that in '14.

His placement on any list, who he is or isn't better than and anything else is subjective, but the 2014 NBA championship (plus 3 more) and his 2007 Finals MVP aren't.

Like you mentioned, the "Big 3" sacrificed personal numbers and glory - Timmy was able to be dominate while also being unselfish - for the betterment of the entire team. Tony and Manu both could have bolted to bigger markets or bigger roles, but the success would likely not have been there.

[TheGreatYacht]

Talking about the Duncan.... He deserved the FMVP in 2014. Easily the best player in that team

[Spurminator]

Here are the PG's I'd rank above Parker in NBA history:

Oscar
Magic
West
Cousy
Stockton
Isiah
CP3
Iverson
Kidd
Payton
Nash
Curry

Most likely Westbrook passes him by the time he's done, but even with that Parker is solidly in the mid-teens as far as all time rank.

Basketball Reference's HOF Index has Parker at #14 all time for PG's. http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../hof_prob.html

Not bad. Kinda sucks for Spurs fans who chose not to enjoy the ride. When you have even a top 25 all-time point guard, the odds are very high that you'll never see a better PG in a Spurs uniform. Even worse odds you'll have one stick with your team his entire career.

[TD 21]

You are clearly biased (username says it all) when you claim that a 38 year old, on a minutes restriction, playing a reduced role was better than an all-star, MVP candidate at his very peak (in 2013).

Parker was a playmaker (7.7 APG), scorer (20.6 PPG) and was defensively solid as well. His game will always look poor (within advanced metrics) since he doesn't average high assists, doesn't shot well/consistently from outside and isn't a great gambler on defense (like Manu).

In '07 Parker was second in PPG (18.6), first in APG (5.5), second in steals (1.1), second in MPG (32.5), made the all-star team and won Finals MVP. He did all that complimenting the best player in franchise history, but was the "third best player" because TD 21 and advanced metrics say so.

Your opinion isn't the end all be all regardless of "metrics." I love Parker, Duncan and Ginobili equally and all three have outperformed one another at different points (be it RS or playoffs) which is great because the won a tremendous amount together.

Irrelevant information. By the way, Duncan was also an All-Star and MVP candidate, as well as a DPOY candidate and 1st team All-NBA, in '13.

Typical antiquated, vanilla fan. Doesn't understand advanced stats, therefore they must be wrong. You also clearly don't understand that counting stats are mostly about context (Parker, for example, scored more than Ginobili because he played more and had a higher usage rate), which is why they're largely irrelevant.

I like Ginobili and Parker equally, but Parker was never definitively better than a healthy Ginobili (before you predictably bring up '13, Ginobili had a lingering hamstring injury) for an extended stretch.

I'm tired of overly sensitive types acting as if I've ever said or inferred my opinion was the end all be all. Heaven forbid I have an opinion that differs from yours. It's funny how my opinion and advanced stats supposedly don't count, but yours and your antiquated ones do. That makes sense.

[Robz4000]

Top 5-10 seems right.

[james evans]

You said you would wait until someone could tell you one thing Parker did better than Isaiah. So I gave you like 5 different things to which you started making excuses..."but the 3-point line had just come into the league, but Isaiah only averaged 1.4 more turnovers a game (which is a lot by the way), but Jordan wasn't a good 3-point shooter either" (lol, and..?!?), etc, etc. Then you start saying Isaiah had more assists, I agree. But I'm not the one claiming Parker did everything better than Isaiah like you are but the other way around.

How are you gonna base someone being a better 3 point shooter than someone in which a 3 point line wasn't even available during their high school and college careers. He hardly ever shot them haha. And as for Isiah being a turnover machine, u obviously didn't watch him in his prime and Parker was probably the first player you ever liked growing up. Since Thomas was a turnover machine, what was his assist to turnover ratio vs Parker's? That's how u measure if someone was a turnover machine. I know the answer, I'll let you calculate it or google it hahaha. Dude you have to be under the age of 25, because I had this same argument with a kid at the gym about why Dirk is better than Tim Duncan because Dirk hits 3's. Who even uses that argument other than someone in their 20s? I know I've never used it. If that's the case, then we can just take Magic's name off any pg list

[J_Paco]

Irrelevant information. By the way, Duncan was also an All-Star and MVP candidate, as well as a DPOY candidate and 1st team All-NBA, in '13.

Typical antiquated, vanilla fan. Doesn't understand advanced stats, therefore they must be wrong. You also clearly don't understand that counting stats are mostly about context (Parker, for example, scored more than Ginobili because he played more and had a higher usage rate), which is why they're largely irrelevant.

I like Ginobili and Parker equally, but Parker was never definitively better than a healthy Ginobili (before you predictably bring up '13, Ginobili had a lingering hamstring injury) for an extended stretch.

I'm tired of overly sensitive types acting as if I've ever said or inferred my opinion was the end all be all. Heaven forbid I have an opinion that differs from yours. It's funny how my opinion and advanced stats supposedly don't count, but yours and your antiquated ones do. That makes sense.

I give you the numbers you wanted to justify my opinion, but you claim they are "antiquated" and I'm a "vanilla fan" because they don't support your opinion.

I realize that traditional statistics are being devalued, while advanced metrics are helping to assess players actual skill level.

Basketball still isn't at a point where traditional statistics (and context) are irrelevant. They both have a place and only a basketball snob/elitist would believe otherwise.

There is always going to be context and reasoning behind Parker or Ginobili outperforming one another such as age, injury and role, yet none of those things come into play when discussing Parker's foibles.

No one is sensitive to your stuck up opinion, TD 21. Acting like an elitist is natural for some people, but this is all pointless bantering. None of us are talent evaluators, scouts or anything (and if you are then good on you) of the sort.

Whether you believe Parker was best, 2nd best, 5th best or the absolute worst player doesn't matter because the awards (Finals MVP, 6× All-Star, 4× All-NBA) and success (4 NBA championships) speaks for themselves.

[SASdynasty!]

How are you gonna base someone being a better 3 point shooter than someone in which a 3 point line wasn't even available during their high school and college careers. He hardly ever shot them haha. And as for Isiah being a turnover machine, u obviously didn't watch him in his prime and Parker was probably the first player you ever liked growing up. Since Thomas was a turnover machine, what was his assist to turnover ratio vs Parker's? That's how u measure if someone was a turnover machine. I know the answer, I'll let you calculate it or google it hahaha. Dude you have to be under the age of 25, because I had this same argument with a kid at the gym about why Dirk is better than Tim Duncan because Dirk hits 3's. Who even uses that argument other than someone in their 20s? I know I've never used it. If that's the case, then we can just take Magic's name off any pg list

I wish I was under 25...definitely saw Isaiah play growing up. I didn't claim Isaiah had a 3 point line growing up. But he had one in the NBA and he wasn't good at making them at all. He also had significantly more turnovers per game than Parker. I didn't claim he had a worse assist to turnover ratio, just that he was a lot more turnover-prone. The reason I bring those things up along with his limited resume is that you made an outrageous and unsupportable claim, that Parker literally did nothing better than Isaiah. And obviously that's not true because Parker was a better outside shooter, better at protecting the ball, won more, and had much greater longevity. I could sit here and make excuses about all the ways Isaiah was better than Parker, but I'm not going to because he was better in a lot of ways.

[gambit1990]

so you, sasdynasty, and thegreatyacht would take parker over cp3. got it. you're in good company

dmc thinking parker would rank as a better pg than chris paul
anyone thinking they were on same level

[james evans]

Tell Duncan to make his move earlier if you want to see more Parker assists. In the early days he almost always guaranteed an assist forfeit because of how long he held the ball before he went into his move. He was the anti-Malone in that way, but it worked.

BULL ING !!! That rule was changed before Parker got to the NBA. An assist used to be a pass to a player on the way to the basket or an immediate score. That changed a while ago. That didn't just change recently. Nice try though. You have no shame in your bull to the point of it being hilarious

[james evans]

Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

No differen't than Laker fans reducing Shaq to a role player to give Kobe some legendary status for the 2000-2002 les

[will_spurs]

What's for sure is that when he retires (and also when he gets into the HoF) all you'll see will be articles about how he was underrated, and rightfully so. Writers will have to forget about their beloved statistics (or scratch their heads in disbelief) and just appreciate the player, the achievements, the beauty of the game.

[SASdynasty!]

dmc thinking parker would rank as a better pg than chris paul
anyone thinking they were on same level

Same level? A FMVP that won 4 championships being on the same level as a statpadder who couldn't make the Conference Finals his whole career is actually pretty laughable, you're right.

[gambit1990]

Same level? A FMVP that won 4 championships being on the same level as a statpadder who couldn't make the Conference Finals his whole career is actually pretty laughable, you're right.

parker had 1 assist tonight.

cp3 had 20 in one game a few nights ago.

[SASdynasty!]

parker had 1 assist tonight.

cp3 had 20 in one game a few nights ago.

Awesome, Parker had a 55 point game. Paul has never even hit 45.

[Dex]

parker had 1 assist tonight.

cp3 had 20 in one game a few nights ago.

You should post this in more threads, because I don't think you have quite made your agenda clear yet.

[gambit1990]

Awesome, Parker had a 55 point game. Paul has never even hit 45.

tony doesn't rank higher than cp3 because he had a 55 point game against a team that finished 22-60.

You should post this in more threads, because I don't think you have quite made your agenda clear yet.

i don't have an agenda. i point to facts. if you have a problem, blame parker.

[james evans]

Awesome, Parker had a 55 point game. Paul has never even hit 45.

do u remember that game agaisnt the wolves and our roster at the time?

[skin27]

Sorry to disappoint the haters but TP is definitely Top 15.


4x Champ, Finals MVP, finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2013, on pace to finish Top 20 all-time in assists, etc. Career averages of 17ppg, 6 asts, and 1 stl on 50% shooting over 15 seasons. Easily Top 15. Y'all are crazy to think otherwise.

Lol Parker finished 6th in MVP voting in 2013!!http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ards_2013.html

[gambit1990]

What's for sure is that when he retires (and also when he gets into the HoF) all you'll see will be articles about how he was underrated, and rightfully so. Writers will have to forget about their beloved statistics (or scratch their heads in disbelief) and just appreciate the player, the achievements, the beauty of the game.

can we forget about the future for a second and reminisce about how tony had 1 assist tonight? let's just appreciate the player, the beatuty of the game.

you must be glad that he's getting a $1 million dollar raise next year, huh?

[SASdynasty!]

tony doesn't rank higher than cp3 because he had a 55 point game against a team that finished 22-60.

Paul's played 22 win teams his whole career and hasn't hit 45 points in a game. That's great he had 20 assists against the 9-18 Pelicans.