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The key game in that championship run was Gm 6 @ OKC when they had to dig deep to pull out a win in OT.
4th
3:33 Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 1 of 2 88 - 96
3:33 Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 2 of 2 88 - 96
The key game in that championship run was Gm 6 @ OKC when they had to dig deep to pull out a win in OT.
I thought it was porker with an "injury".
Exactly what he said, hence "digging deep".I thought it was porker with an "injury".
I've heard you say this a bunch of times. That's not true. There's Sport Psychology classes that study this.If there was such thing as clutch, it would happen every time. It wouldn't just happen as often as their averages in the long run.
And there's no data that supports clutch once the sample size is big enough for the data to be relevant. You can not quantify clutch.
Here's a good article about it by Tom Ziller.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/528...d-random-chaos
And there's plenty of more articles from people smarter than you and I on why or how there's no such thing as clutch. Every player that is in a tight, highly compe ive NBA game in the 4th quarter, has been training and practicing for decades. They have confidence in the one thing they are best at ( playing basketball). There's no such thing as a player being " clutch" or having a " clutch gene". Clutch isn't why they come through late. They come through late because they have prepared for decades and are highly skilled at what they do. There is such thing as players being skilled and having confidence --especially on the NBA level competing in 4th quarters in tight games.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 12-21-2016 at 11:08 AM.
Some random thoughts I'm parking on this thread...
As is they're 2nd round fodder TBH. I think this game was a mirage. Yet, other teams like the Rockettes celebrate buckets as championships etc... with that being said, class doesn't guarantee ships... it'll be up to Kawhi... if he morphs into a Lebron like level there may be a chance... Manu would at least have to match his 2014 playoffs run level so would Parker...
As already said, it really depends on what it means to be "clutch". If you mean that guys perform better in crunch time, then that implies that they are purposefully playing worse for most of the game/season. That can be true, but I don't consider it a virtuous quality to have. If being clutch is just being unflappable under pressure, then it seems really easy to see how that can be true.
Patty wasn't clutch because he made a three he'd normally miss. He was clutch because he didn't miss a three he'd normally make.
A player can hit a big shot, but that's part of skill, variance, and opportunity. It's not because he is clutch. A player is going to hit and miss shots around their averages ( or around their skill level) in the long run, no matter what part of the game it is.
Yeah, There is no such thing as clutch genes or Cluth whatever. I understand that a good percentage of casual fans believe in that BS.
But I've always though "clutch" implied playing at your average level in a more tense time of the game. It isn't shot shots either, but just being able to utilize every skill you have in the very last moment of the game at an average.
That's how I personally define clutch. And some do the same thing.
In that sense, "clutch" is a thing.
There's no data that supports that though. There's only tense part of games for players who are cold or on the bench. Players that are in the middle of battle have the blood flowing and are prepared more than anyone for compe ion late in games. Players that play in the 4th quarter of big games on the NBA level are the most skilled, and have the most confidence already. They've spent years and decades practicing and playing this game at the highest levels. It has more to do with confidence, skill level, opportunity and variance. It's not because of a player or team being clutch.
But if clutch is just anti-anticlutch, then it's rather easy to quantify. Does the play shoot worse in big moments? No? Then they're clutch. Does a player shoot worse? Yes? Then they aren't.
There are guys like Bonner who have plenty of experience sucking it up in big games. It's easy anecdotally to see how people can cave under pressure. We aren't NBA players, but everyone has experienced that feeling in their lives for some reason or another. Some rise above, and some suc b. It's not just chance.
Except for the ones that don't. I think what most people don't get is that the players who are consistently good in the clutch are the ones who are good consistently good all the time. Some decent-to-good players go to in the clutch. But you don't have scrubs that suddenly become assassins in the clutch. Plus the fact that very few of those lower-to-mid tier players get the opportunity to take the last shot in big games. So it's almost always the better players who make the clutch shots, and they do pretty much what they always do. They don't get max contracts to be good just in the last minutes of games.
Is Steph Curry "clutch"? Harden? Westbrook? Sort of. Those ers are "clutch" in the first half, and third quarters too. And if they've had a bad game, they sometimes step up in the last minute. But that means they become normal - not better than normal. You should pay more attention to the guys who are anti-clutch, and fall apart under pressure. It's exactly what Chinook said:
But that's the thing. A 2 point in end game situation is much more maginified as a possession than say the middle lf the second quarter. Players know this.
You can see this with role player, specifically. For example, Danny dribbles and drives mid game but he will only ever do twp things in end game sitautions.
Is it quanitifable, yes..There just isnt anyone willing to do those stats. But its pretty evident that Role players in general, have a difference cobfidence level late in the 4th.
1. Bonner sucked it up (overall) in big games vs. GREAT compe ion in playoffs because he simply wasn't good enough. He was a 10th-12th man and sometimes overplayed in scenarios where the game was far over his head. It wasn't because he wasn't clutch, it was because the guy just wasn't good enough.
2. Bonner shot 36% from 3 in only 138 career playoff opportunities (which is fair considering the increased level of defense that is faced in the playoffs). Plus, that sample size isn't large enough to make end all conclusions. On top to that, with Bonner being relatively easy to defend, the better teams ( in the playoffs) made a conscious effort to not leave wide open like the terrible teams that left him open in the regular season. For the sample size comparison, Bonner shot over 1900+ threes in his career in the regular season compared to only 138 in the playoffs. Not making any excuses for Bonner, I know he isn't a great player and I know he shouldn't have played much in any playoff run ( because he simply wasn't good enough). But to call him unclutch just isn't the right word for it -- he simply wasn't good enough and if you want to point to his 36% shooting from 3 against advanced defenses, then I have to disagree bc the sample size is still too small to make an end all conclusion.
And Manu missed a pair too that left the door wide open at the end. Meanwhile, Harden had nine points on three fouls on three pointers.
Were talking about hitting clutch shots in the regular season not playoffs..my point is winning close games/in the clutch in the in the regular season doesn't guarantee a championship..
When they do come though its because of how good they are. The five players in at the end of big games are the teams best 5 players most often than not. They are not Bonners, or 10th or 11th guys on the team. Even the greatest players miss shots in the most crucial moments, Curry last year vs. Cavaliers, Manu has on more than one occasion, Jordan has, Kobe has, Duncan has -- its due to variance. No matter how confident a player is at taking a shot, it's still skilled based that will be converted around their averages in the long run.
So if Duncan misses a game winner like he's done on several occasions, that means he's labeled as "anti-clutch" because he " fell apart under pressure"? No, that couldn't be more wrong, because the sample size is too small to make that declaration after just a handful of sample moments.
We're saying the same thing.
Pretty much this. Heart rate increase, sweaty hands, mental thoughts can all occur when the importance of a possession is magnified even if you're a professional athlete. Clutchness is basically the ability to combat that. Some teams are even hiring sport psychologists, tbh.
Lol It's called confidence. The teams hiring sports psychologists are hiring them for overall mental balance to deal with all the pressure that comes with being a professional athlete. They aren't hiring them to combat sweaty palms, or increased heart rates or to combat anti clutch lol.
The more prepared you are, the more confident you are and the better you're going to produce. The NBA players in big games and in big moments are more prepared than any players in the world.
No team having Kawhi as their leader can be called clutch imo
Thanks for helping out kawhi with that MVP trophy.
to act like the pressure doesn't increase as the game gets tighter and closer to the finish while some players wilt under that pressure while some embrace it and play better, is just asinine imo.
The studies have shown that streak shooting is an illusion. A player is no more likely to make after a make than he is to make after a miss.
However, in this context "clutch" means something different: the ability to come back from a deficit, and to win close games. That can be quantified.
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