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I really haven't noticed him passing up shots... so many bring that up, that now I wonder if I am not paying attention enough to him doing that.... lol
You guys ever consider some of this so called "doghouse" may be attributed to things that occur outside of games like at the practice facility? Maybe he is being put in the "dog house" for not doing the work there as well. Just a hypothetical to consider
I really haven't noticed him passing up shots... so many bring that up, that now I wonder if I am not paying attention enough to him doing that.... lol
Any foreigner who is 6'10" or taller is going to go through a long rough period with Pop. Most never come out of it.
But some (like Tiago) do. Bertans is a big-time talent and he should emerge sooner than most.
Pop is senile. Case closed. KISS.
He literally just came in right now and shot it as soon as he touched it. It's either one of those Spurstalk myths people parrot to sound knowledgeable, or they literally expect him to chuck it every time he touches it. This "hesitant to shoot" nonsense is just that - nonsense.
Seriously, you people are nuts. He isn't hesitant at all. He shoots good shots and makes plays when he can.
Lmao @ him needing to "watch tapes of Bonner to learn how to score after being run off the line". How many times did you see Bonner throw oops, thrown down reverse dunks, slash to the hole, swing the ball effortlessly, or do anything other than slowly pump fake and jog like a t-rex into a slow baby hook?
I swear, most here don't know basketball.
Nah, it's more about getting Dedmon and Lee going. Davis will get his chance in years to come.
It’s ing annoying. There are a lot of times, esp in the clippers game that we needed some spark.
That's a bit of a drive; I've made it before. That's wanting to see a game live.
I saw Bonner with decent slashes to the basket, and some ok post game as well as fairly good passing around the perimeter in the 2007 to 2012 time frame. He was a respectable bench big with outside shooting in his first 3 to 5 years here.... He was always fine until the 2014-15 season as a stretch 4 situationally. The problem was when he was being asked to be the first big man off the bench and play 20+ minutes per game and in some cases start. When a guy should be a solid 10 to 15 minutes a night change of pace sub and he is tasked with being the primary bench big he will look uninspiring. He also got older and slowed from his never impressive to begin with athletic peak. I am not really interested in debating how bad Bonner was though....
Your history of Bonner's tiness is completely backwards. He was asked to do to much starting in the 08-09 season then his role diminished slowly from there.
And he never slashed to the basket. A pump fake and slow "drive" into defenders in the lane is not a slashing game.
Obviously you never watched the Spurs when Bonner had a role. When he was chased off the three point line he had a runner that he could make. It was effective. Meanwhile, when Bertrans is run off the line, he passes the ball. He can stretch a defense, but to get minutes, he's got to be able to do something once he's chased off the line.
You probably don't watch much basketball, but clue in on the fact that Bertrans isn't a superstar in the making. To stick in this league, he needs to find a niche. So he should watch players that had a similar role to one he is trying to carve out. Bonner is the perfect guy to watch as he had some success in the Spurs system. Unfortunately since you know little about basketball, you assume that bc Bonner "sucked" per Spurstalk fan, even though he did a great job of spreading the court in his prime.
This discussion is very interesting. I suspect we see Davis again. I was very wordy in my post but TLDR version: basically he's a deep bench reserve with a few weaknesses (rebounding, rim protection, and as mentioned by the post above, developing counters when run off the line that result in a good % shot). He has flashed game though.
Spurs need him for depth and to develop for next season so I suspect we will see him again soon.
You're a fool. Plain and simple. His runner wasn't very effective at all and this was at a time where the Spurs didn't have nearly as many weapons as they do now. Bertans job is to keep the defense honest. He shoots when he's wide open and moves the ball when there's nothing there. Not that that is all he can do though. He's had numerous examples in the short time he's played by driving into the lane, getting to the line, and being in the right spots around the basket to get easy dunks. The latter being something the ginger t-rex couldn't do unless he had a five second head start so he could gather the ball with two hands and jump off of two feet.Clearly, the one who isn't watching is you or else we wouldn't even be discussing this.
If Bertans needs to improve, he'd do well not to watch tapes of Bonner. No one wants to see the guy telegraph exactly what he's going to do everytime by throwing a slow pump fake and slowly driving into traffic only to end up throwing up a desperate runner, or pick up his dribble and look for someone to bail him out every single time.
But, please, go on about Bonner was so effective and dynamic offensively.
Who's supposed to come out of the rotation to give him minutes? Lee I guess? If lee is playing the backup pf with Dedmon I don't see where Bertans gets his minutes
I 100000% agree with this. Especially when you come out and say your guys are lacking fire and effort.
I don't think anyone is arguing for Bertans to take over as the backup PF full time. Ideally he and Lee would split minutes depending on the matchup (more mobility or strength) and how much shooting is needed on the floor. But if Lee keeps playing at a high level that's obviously not much of a concern.
First of all, this time of year Pop has always used longer rotations. In the playoffs he shortens down to 9 or 10, with only spot minutes going to other guys.
Second, Bertans has shown signs of being able to knock down 3's, and of being a pretty good rim protector. There are times when both of those things would be valuable from the bench.
Third, he was getting more minutes (during the heart of games) right up till that incident. Maybe it's coincidence, but there's at least reason to think it might not be. Really, the biggest reason to think it's just coincidence is thinking, "Pop wouldn't do that."
oh the "fight"? man I actually thought that was
A) Cool and defending a teammate
B) showed me that Davis had more sack than I would have originally thought.
I hope this is another one of those time we attribute something to CIA Pop that isn't true because I would hate to believe his was in a doghouse because of this. I am thinking Pop is just tinkering with lineups. I was surprised that there was so little Simmons in the playoffs but Pop will cut the cord on a newbie with a quickness until he feels that player has enough Corporate knowledge.
Bertans isn't that good yet. He's very streaky, and when he is on, he looks unbeatable. But he still has a pretty low BBIQ, and a questionable body. I'd like to see him play more, but he doesn't make sense inside the regular rotation. He really can't play the three, and Lee and Dedmon both deserve time over Bertans. Pop isn't playing as long of rotations this year with all the new guys he needs to get refined. Also, the front court has been healthy so far, which wasn't the case with Tim and Splitter previously.
As far as him passing up shots, I'd still say he does that too much. He totally should shoot every time he touches it, like pretty much every other elite three-point shooter does. If you look at Re and Korver, they don't need a lot of separation to get their looks off. Bertans has to be like that to reach his potential (actually, he, Green and Mills all have to be like that more often). Otherwise, he's pretty much just Bonner. He should be much more than that with his skill-set, but he won't get there if he has the mentality of a role-player.
Thanks for sharing this opinion.
I like to read different perspectives.
I didn't think he was passing up shots. I have thought he doesn't set good screens to free himself though. Or that he screens and rolls when he should be popping more, or frankly all the time. He doesn't seem to be looking for his shots as much. He might be too used to playing like a wing in Europe. I state that bc I observed him moving off the ball very well. His issue to me seems to be that playing as a big (as opposed to a wing) off the ball movement is not the same... really other than rolls which is not his best skillset... he needs to be screening and popping more.
Bittom line for me I haven't seen him enough (I missed some games he's played... the Boston game for example one of his best)... also the Spurs defense declined a lot while Dedmon was injured and Bertans getting minutes. He doesn't rebound like a forward.... He's simply not good enough right now to play when the other front court players are healthy. I think you and BillMC are right though in that his thing is shooting and him playing games without taking a shot will not get him out of the bench.
Dedmon
Lee
Bertans
Manu
Mills
This should be the second unit..
I dont understand why Pop wont play Bertans at the 3.
This is Bertans original position.
Bertans is second on the team in 3PA/36. That's good. But he's third-to-last on the team in FGA/36. That's very bad. There's simply no reason why he shouldn't shoot as much as like Patty or Manu per minute. He's out there for only one thing, and he needs to do that thing. A lot. To the point where it's almost too much. There's a difference between being a floor-spacer and a scorer. The Spurs need the latter from him, not the former.
What I want to know is why the Clippers give a lot of screens for Re but they never do the same for any of their 3 point shooters? Shouldn't Bertans, Mills, Green or even Leonard deserve the occassional screen?
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