Kawho?

[Kawhitstorm]

Only the most intellectually dishonest shills like Y can take what I said as trolling. There is a prevailing narrative that this current team is bad and that Kawhi is the only reason why they are relevant. This is not exclusive to ST or Spurs fan. It's the same motivation that underlies most LMA trades or Green trades to a lesser extent. The Spurs are not Kawhi and a bunch of terrible to slightly above-average players, which is what a lot of people think. They are a middling playoff team plus a top-five player, and that's about the same talent level of the Cavs, if not more.

Anyway, to be back on track, that belief was what was behind Moore's stupid article about Kawhi's defensive numbers (Kawhi can't possibly be playing worse defense this year; it has to be all those scrubs he's carrying), or why Pop is running the flattest offense he has in a decade (Kawhi has to score all by himself because no one else on the team can get points). It's ridiculous.

The Spurs are a great team, from 1-9. It's bad enough that fans of other teams think they are in the same tier as Boston and Utah. We sure don't need Spurs fans making even worse evaluations.

You're basing your narrative off two games where Porker played like it was 2013 against two ty teams when he couldn't even outplay Raymond Fatton last week.

If Porker could play like MVParker then yeah the Spurs would be LEGIT contenders but that's unfortunately not the case. What you saw is a mirage, it's not like the Mavs w/o Dirk/Bogut didn't beat the Blazers on the road w/ Lillard in the line-up.

[Chinook]

You're basing your narrative off two games where Porker played like it was 2013 against two ty teams when he couldn't even outplay Raymond Fatton last week.

First, people were about to kill themselves after one half and one quarter of those games when they thought the Spurs looked lost without Leonard. These games are either informative or they're not. Second, that the Spurs would struggle to beat the best teams without their best player doesn't support that narrative. Of course the Spurs need all hands on deck, especially their biggest hand, to achieve their potential. That's a far cry from the folks thinking they struggled the past two games in a way they hadn't done with Kawhi there. Finally, I'm basing my evaluation off the myriad playoff success, awards and experience of the rest of the Spurs' rotation. The entire top nine except Dedmon are proven players.

If Porker could play like MVParker then yeah the Spurs would be LEGIT contenders but that's unfortunately not the case. What you saw is a mirage, it's not like the Mavs w/o Dirk/Bogut didn't beat the Blazers on the road w/ Lillard in the line-up.

Parker doesn't have to do that every game, especially not to that extent. It's extremely nice to see Parker and Manu step up with Kawhi out and LMA neutralized. Them being consistent stars in the playoffs is too much to ask; them being non-negatives in the post-season with a game or two where they drop a star-like impact is not. That's what $30 Million should buy you.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Chinook, we are not as good as the Cavs.

LeBron, Kylie, Thompson, and Kevin Love are pretty much always gonna be there, barring injury.

Aside from Kawhi and now Patty, we don't know if we are going to get enough to beat the best teams in the league on an average given night.

Playing against the Cavs, Clippers, or Warriors, we are not a smart bet right now, 7-game series or regular season 1-off.

We need Simmons to give us 80% of what he have us last night on a consistent basis in order to have a chance.

And it's mostly because we can't get stops consistently against the good teams. Our defense is the worse it's been since a year or 2 before Danny Green.

[ElNono]

It's all relative, tbh. $30 million also buys you Hayward/Favors, Cousins/Gay, Rondo/Butler... duos whose ceiling are playoff fodder... I would agree though that giving somebody like Manu a multi-year guaranteed deal is bad business (same for Tony, tbh).

The reality is that in the playoffs your first and second option are likely going to be shut down for series at a time, and you're going to need other guys to step up. But you need those over the top talent to even have that conversation. Spurs are easily first/second round fodder without Kawhi, especially defensively.

[RD2191]

I'm convinced Chinook has lost it. Something is not right with that guy.

[ElNono]

I'm convinced Chinook has lost it. Something is not right with that guy.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion. His grades were good too.

[Big Empty]

Kawhobe

Ha ha brilliant

[Chinook]

Chinook, we are not as good as the Cavs.

LeBron, Kylie, Thompson, and Kevin Love are pretty much always gonna be there, barring injury.

First off, my comment was saying was in the context of both teams missing their best player. Lebron is a true GOAT candidate. The gap between him and Kawhi is unreal, and that has nothing to do with criticizing Leonard. You take Lebron away, and you get a Cavs team that isn't half as good. That's why they get sonned by teams like Detroit when Lebron rests. Listing off Cavs players is just naming names. They really depend on Lebron to make them better in a way the Spurs' players don't, because they were all accomplished before Kawhi became a star. Leonard didn't teach them how to win like James did with the Cavs.

Aside from Kawhi and now Patty, we don't know if we are going to get enough to beat the best teams in the league on an average given night.

Yes, and that's been true for most non-stars. I own Kyrie in fantasy. He's not consistent at all. He might be his points, but it'll be on like 40-percent shooting or worse a lot of nights. Love has been well-do ented.

7-game series or regular season 1-off.

Those are two dramatically different things. I know you were probably implying that, but the Spurs are possibly the best game-planning team in the league. They know how to limit Lebron and Curry and even KD for the most part in a series. I can understand the Warriors, but I don't see any reason why the Spurs shouldn't be favored over the Cavs in a series right now.

We need Simmons to give us 80% of what he have us last night on a consistent basis in order to have a chance.

And it's mostly because we can't get stops consistently against the good teams. Our defense is the worse it's been since a year or 2 before Danny Green.

Yes, the Spurs will have to play better D is they are to win a le. And GS will have to stop turning the ball over stupidly. The old guys on the Cavs are going to have to step up again. Everyone has question marks.

[Chinook]

Spurs are easily first/second round fodder without Kawhi, especially defensively.

No one ever said they weren't. That's not unusual for teams missing their best players. Most of the elite teams aren't making it out of the first round without their top guy. That's why top guys get paid so much. That's NOT what people have been saying about the Spurs outside of Kawhi. They've been saying much, much worse. There's a huge gap between saying the Spurs are not contenders without Kawhi and the Spurs outside of Kawhi are terrible. The Moore article and the evaluations of a disturbing number of fans assert the latter, not the former.

[Chinook]

I'm convinced Chinook has lost it. Something is not right with that guy.

Been doing me wrong left and right, Rob.

[r0drig0lac]

I'm convinced Chinook has lost it. Something is not right with that guy.

[ElNono]

No one ever said they weren't. That's not unusual for teams missing their best players. Most of the elite teams aren't making it out of the first round without their top guy. That's why top guys get paid so much. That's NOT what people have been saying about the Spurs outside of Kawhi. They've been saying much, much worse. There's a huge gap between saying the Spurs are not contenders without Kawhi and the Spurs outside of Kawhi are terrible. The Moore article and the evaluations of a disturbing number of fans assert the latter, not the former.

That was Sean's point more or less though. This place is a different story altogether, tbh, our current lineup would be something like DWill, Beal, Ariza, Chandler and Boban

[Kawhitstorm]

No one ever said they weren't. That's not unusual for teams missing their best players. Most of the elite teams aren't making it out of the first round without their top guy. That's why top guys get paid so much. That's NOT what people have been saying about the Spurs outside of Kawhi. They've been saying much, much worse. There's a huge gap between saying the Spurs are not contenders without Kawhi and the Spurs outside of Kawhi are terrible.

It was just last season that the Grizz made the postseason w/ a D-League roster & the Mavs took one game away from OKC while starring Fatton.

A team led by LMA w/ a supporting cast of max contract talent (Lillard/Batum/CJ) + Lopez/Leonard got annihilated by the Grizzlies in 2015 & you're out here hyping up a team featuring TOSB Pau/Porker.

In 2013, OKC w/o WB lost in 5 to the same team that got annihilated by the Spurs in the WCF. Then WB missed half the season in '13-'14 & they still won 59 games, now they are only a game behind last season's record after 33 games so I guess there shouldn't be a huge drop off in the postseason compared to the team that was up 3-1 in WCF w/ Durant?

[TheGreatYacht]

Chinook is 100% correct. Kiwifan acts like this team is a lottery team without him just to prop their guy up. There's no way this team w/o Kawhi isn't a playoff team..... the Kings are currently a playoff team

[Kawhitstorm]

Chinook is 100% correct. Kiwifan acts like this team is a lottery team without him just to prop their guy up. There's no way this team w/o Kawhi isn't a playoff team]..... the Kings are currently a playoff team

.......which is why beating the Suns/Blazers or being a 7th seed w/o Kawhi shouldn't be seen as a huge accomplishment (see '15-'16 Mavs).

[duncan2k5]

Posts like this make me embarrassed to be a spurs fan...we beat 2 trash teams without kawhi and all of a sudden we don't need him...he is the difference between a championship and a first round exit...

We won games without Duncan in the past...guess we should have traded him, right? I really hope kawhi doesn't read these forums... And if he does, don't leave bro...us sours fans LOVE you...you brought us a ring, and u will bring more...

This is his FIRST season being the offensive focus of the team...tell me how many players had this success at this point of their careers? Smfh

[RD2191]

Been doing me wrong left and right, Rob.

you still muh dude and of the best posters on this site.

[Hoops Czar]

It's all relative, tbh. $30 million also buys you Hayward/Favors, Cousins/Gay, Rondo/Butler... duos whose ceiling are playoff fodder... I would agree though that giving somebody like Manu a multi-year guaranteed deal is bad business (same for Tony, tbh).

The reality is that in the playoffs your first and second option are likely going to be shut down for series at a time, and you're going to need other guys to step up. But you need those over the top talent to even have that conversation. Spurs are easily first/second round fodder without Kawhi, especially defensively.

Spurs are first and second round fodder WITH Kawhi. See: 2015 and 2016 NBA season

[Hoops Czar]

Chinook, we are not as good as the Cavs.

LeBron, Kylie, Thompson, and Kevin Love are pretty much always gonna be there, barring injury.

The Cavs are a lottery team in the east without Lebron.

[Clipper Nation]

The Cavs are a lottery team in the east without Lebron.

Hoops finally admitting the greatness of LeGOAT

[Chinook]

Posts like this make me embarrassed to be a spurs fan...we beat 2 trash teams without kawhi and all of a sudden we don't need him...he is the difference between a championship and a first round exit...

We won games without Duncan in the past...guess we should have traded him, right? I really hope kawhi doesn't read these forums... And if he does, don't leave bro...us sours fans LOVE you...you brought us a ring, and u will bring more...

This is his FIRST season being the offensive focus of the team...tell me how many players had this success at this point of their careers? Smfh

If it's not clear, Nono's OP was sarcastic. No one wants to trade Kawhi, not even those who act like the biggest Leonard haters on the board. Nono was just making a little joke, probably jabbing at that premature thread lambasting the Leonard-less D in the Suns game that got prematurely bumped again last night.

Anyway, my post isn't about denigrating Leonard. It doesn't make Kawhi a worse player because his supporting cast isn't terrible. I am just annoyed how many fans dismiss other guys and then use that as an excuse for Pop running a terrible offense. He needs to find a way to get everyone to play this way WITH Kawhi. That takes active coaching, which I don't really think he's been doing too much of this season.

[bic50]

Spurs are first and second round fodder WITH Kawhi. See: 2015 and 2016 NBA season

He said "easily".

[Hoops Czar]

If it's not clear, Nono's OP was sarcastic. No one wants to trade Kawhi, not even those who act like the biggest Leonard haters on the board. Nono was just making a little joke, probably jabbing at that premature thread lambasting the Leonard-less D in the Suns game that got prematurely bumped again last night.

Anyway, my post isn't about denigrating Leonard. It doesn't make Kawhi a worse player because his supporting cast isn't terrible. I am just annoyed how many fans dismiss other guys and then use that as an excuse for Pop running a terrible offense. He needs to find a way to get everyone to play this way WITH Kawhi. That takes active coaching, which I don't really think he's been doing too much of this season.

The narrative really hasn't changed for the Spurs. This is a mid-range jump shooting team and in the postseason when defenses tighten and shooting %'s decrease, the Spurs are going to struggle. The Spurs rank 28th in points in the paint, 21st in fast break points and 29th in 3-point FGs attempted. The Spurs defense isn't good enough to offset such offensive inefficiencies. The team's success is largely dependent on players past their prime contributing in ways they haven't in years (Parker, Ginobili) and for players who have never played a prominent role in big game situations (Simmons, Dedmon, KA) to have a major impact for the Spurs to have any chance at a deep playoff run. No offense to Kawhi, but he's not Lebron.

[ElNono]

Spurs are first and second round fodder WITH Kawhi. See: 2015 and 2016 NBA season

This is a different team without TD on bad wheels, tbh...
Some will say better, some will say worse

[duncan2k5]

If it's not clear, Nono's OP was sarcastic. No one wants to trade Kawhi, not even those who act like the biggest Leonard haters on the board. Nono was just making a little joke, probably jabbing at that premature thread lambasting the Leonard-less D in the Suns game that got prematurely bumped again last night.

Anyway, my post isn't about denigrating Leonard. It doesn't make Kawhi a worse player because his supporting cast isn't terrible. I am just annoyed how many fans dismiss other guys and then use that as an excuse for Pop running a terrible offense. He needs to find a way to get everyone to play this way WITH Kawhi. That takes active coaching, which I don't really think he's been doing too much of this season.

Ok, fair enough