OT: If Chris Webber is not a HOF player..

[Kawhitstorm]

T-Mac is first ballot. As is Vinsanity

Vince has two All-NBA honors (never 1s team) & got passed up by DeFrozen as the best player in the Raptors history.

[TD 21]

Webber should definitely be a Hall of Famer.

Marion is the most interesting case of this era. Piled up various counting stats, has good advanced stats and won a championship as a starter, but only had 4 All-Star selections, 2 All-NBA selections and peaked as a consensus top 15 player.

If the standards were what they should be, he'd be a cut below, but given what they are, he's probably 50/50.

Vince has two All-NBA honors (never 1s team) & got passed up by DeFrozen as the best player in the Raptors history.

DeRozan is not in the top three (Carter, Bosh, Lowry) players in Raptors franchise history.

[Kawhitstorm]

DeRozan is not in the top three (Carter, Bosh, Lowry) players in Raptors franchise history.

I'm talking about career not best player.

[TD 21]

I'm talking about career not best player.

I know and so did I.

[Arcadian]

I think when guys don't get in on their 1st try that should be it. You were considered and found lacking. It should have nothing to do with how many other people are up for it that year, HOF is HOF.

Isn't there a limit on how many people can be inducted each year? If that were the case, it would be unfair to have only one chance because some classes are stronger than others.

[DMC]

Isn't there a limit on how many people can be inducted each year? If that were the case, it would be unfair to have only one chance because some classes are stronger than others.

What did I just say? "Should". The rules for HOF should be changed. If you have 10 all time greats retire at the same time, it's not right that some would have to go in on the 2nd try. It should be weighed against current HOFers.

There should also be "former HOF" meaning you can be booted, meaning there are only 100 or so players total and so many coaches and other roles. Eventually there's going to be so many that it won't mean anything.

When people like TMac and CWebb get in, you know there's really not a high standard, just chuck your way in. Neither of these are all time greats. By those standards Kenny Smith should be in for his work on TNT and the dunk contests.

[Kawhitstorm]

I know and so did I.

Derozan is the leader or top 5 in every major statistical category besides blocks & 3 point shooting. Just like Lowry, he has been an all-star twice (missed out in '15 b/c of injury) & been player of the month twice. If we're talking about win-shares then Bosh blows away the compe ion & if we're talking about PEAK seasons then Vince is running away w/ it.

If you look their postseason career then there is nothing to write home about but Lowry has been the worst offender outside of the Heat series. Even when they made it to the ECF by default, it was DeFrozen that bailed them out in Gm 5 against the Pacers before finishing them off in Gm 7 & he also had a better series against the Cavs since he didn't have to deal w/ George/Winslow.

[da_suns_fan]

Came here to say this. He'll get in.

And so will Carmelo. You can't be one of the best scorers ever and not be a HOFer.

True. And when Melo becomes one of the best scorers ever he can be in the hall of fame.

[Arcadian]

What did I just say? "Should". The rules for HOF should be changed. If you have 10 all time greats retire at the same time, it's not right that some would have to go in on the 2nd try. It should be weighed against current HOFers.

There should also be "former HOF" meaning you can be booted, meaning there are only 100 or so players total and so many coaches and other roles. Eventually there's going to be so many that it won't mean anything.

When people like TMac and CWebb get in, you know there's really not a high standard, just chuck your way in. Neither of these are all time greats. By those standards Kenny Smith should be in for his work on TNT and the dunk contests.

I would think it's the proportion that matters, not the total number. The number of hall of famers continues to rise, but so does the total number of players in history. If you capped it at 100 (or any arbitrary value), the proportion would just keep diminishing. Every year would turn into a discussion about who should be removed from the hall to make room for a new entry.

It's not supposed to be a "Top 100 players of all time." It's just a way of recognizing the best players of their generation.

[TD 21]

Derozan is the leader or top 5 in every major statistical category besides blocks & 3 point shooting. Just like Lowry, he has been an all-star twice (missed out in '15 b/c of injury) & been player of the month twice. If we're talking about win-shares then Bosh blows away the compe ion & if we're talking about PEAK seasons then Vince is running away w/ it.

If you look their postseason career then there is nothing to write home about but Lowry has been the worst offender outside of the Heat series. Even when they made it to the ECF by default, it was DeFrozen that bailed them out in Gm 5 against the Pacers before finishing them off in Gm 7 & he also had a better series against the Cavs since he didn't have to deal w/ George/Winslow.

I know, but that's because he's played the most games and minutes and taken the most shots. He was a 2 time All-Star thanks mostly to cir stance, like many others in the East this century.

I'll give him credit for being a legit All-Star this season. Even though he's as one dimensional as ever, he has combined improved efficiency with his volume scoring, but he's never been a top 15 player nor will he ever be. The other 3 all were/are as Raptors.

[DMC]

I would think it's the proportion that matters, not the total number. The number of hall of famers continues to rise, but so does the total number of players in history. If you capped it at 100 (or any arbitrary value), the proportion would just keep diminishing. Every year would turn into a discussion about who should be removed from the hall to make room for a new entry.

It's not supposed to be a "Top 100 players of all time." It's just a way of recognizing the best players of their generation.

I disagree with the quota system. You get considered and either make it or you don't. If you cannot get in today when you are on the ballot, you should not go back on the ballot. Why does it matter how many they induct per year? Put 10 in sometimes, put zero in at others. That will send a message to the ty era players.

[Kawhitstorm]

I know, but that's because he's played the most games and minutes and taken the most shots.

Players who have the longest tenure & put up the numbers are usually considered the best player in their franchise even more so in the Raptors case since they never made it out of the 1st rd until DeFrozen carried 'em against the Pacers.

[ambchang]

Players who have the longest tenure & put up the numbers are usually considered the best player in their franchise even more so in the Raptors case since they never made it out of the 1st rd until DeFrozen carried 'em against the Pacers.

Carter played against the Iversons in the second round.

[Kawhitstorm]

Carter played against the Iversons in the second round.

I misremembered thought that was a 1st rd series since they lost to the Knicks the previous year. In any case, they never made it out of the 2nd rd until last season.

[ambchang]

I dismembered thought that was a 1st rd series since they lost to the Knicks the previous year. In any case, they never made it out of the 2nd rd until last season.

Doesn't mean derozan is better.

Better team, worse compe ion, luck, matchups all plays a role.

[Kawhitstorm]

Doesn't mean derozan is better.

Better team, worse compe ion, luck, matchups all plays a role.

Nobody in the Raptors organization is going to be factoring in those variants when DeFrozen jersey is retired in 2030.

[ambchang]

Nobody in the Raptors organization is going to be factoring in those variants when DeFrozen jersey is retired in 2030.

How does that make him the best Raptor ever? Are the Raptors organization going to dedicate him one in 2030?

[TD 21]

Players who have the longest tenure & put up the numbers are usually considered the best player in their franchise even more so in the Raptors case since they never made it out of the 1st rd until DeFrozen carried 'em against the Pacers.

Out of respect by people in and around the team, but we're not, so we don't have to pretend. The other three were and are better players in their tenure.