Reply With Quote
Having posted this I really hope this thread does not devolve into an anti-Tony or Pau thread.
Really solid article on what is going on with the Spurs defense and what will likely happen in the playoffs.
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/...laring-problem
Some interesting points.
They pin down why Kawh's defensive metrics are down this year. And it is not because offenses are isolating him as that CBS article said last month:
Last season, he defended an average of 9.4 shots per game; that number’s down just slightly, to 9.2, which suggests teams haven’t removed him from the equation. Beyond that, Leonard’s steal rate and block rate remain roughly what they have been in previous years.They also talk about what will likely happen in the playoffs with different lineups:The real issue is that Pop is, using his best defender to prop up his worst. Kawhi plays more minutes with Pau (828) and Parker (660) than anyone else on the team. One reason his numbers look bad relative to Tony and Pau (who have a 103.7 defensive rating): those two rarely play together without Kawhi on the floor. Out of the 638 minutes the pair have spent together on the floor, only 78 have been without Leonard.
That’s important, because as mediocre as Parker and Gasol are individually, their deficiencies are compounded when teams attack them at the same time.
In 126 minutes of playing together, the frontcourt trio of Leonard, Aldridge and Dedmon has a 95 defensive rating (and a 21.6 net rating). That’s a grouping we’ll very likely see more of in the postseason. Add Simmons to the mix (33 minutes thus far) and that defensive rating goes down to 92.1 (while the offensive rating jumps up to 128.1). That fifth player can be either Parker or Mills and the Spurs are fine defensively, while getting something different out of each PG on the offensive end.
Put Dedmon and/or Aldridge behind Kawhi and you see him get a lot more aggressive on pick and rolls -- similar to how he played with Duncan behind him — and that’s where he can really change games. If he doesn’t blow the initial play up with his length, strength and speed, the Spurs’ more mobile bigs are able to buy Leonard enough time to recover and make a play.
Having posted this I really hope this thread does not devolve into an anti-Tony or Pau thread.
I think PtR is being "optimistic" if it assumes Dedmon is going to get a lot of playoff burn. If Dewanye gets second-big minutes in a series, it's likely because the Spurs are down big and Pop is FINALLY willing to try something.
Oh, and Tony and Parker are terrible and should be traded for Payton and Miles Plumlee. Include Fat Head and D-League too.Having posted this I really hope this thread does not devolve into an anti-Tony or Pau thread.
Also was interesting talking about how the switching was great against the Dubs and got us killed by the Clips.
True. And if he does play will he collect fouls? And will he clog up the offense?.. there are reasons why Pop wants to stick with Pau.
Last edited by BillMc; 01-16-2017 at 10:12 AM.
Hoping you forgot the blue font.
I think alot of this has to do with reputation. I know Dedmon commits fouls, but I also think he has a rep for it. If pop played him more, and hes becomes a prominent consistent part of the teams minutes, refs will adjust and stop calling some of the ticky tac stuff they call on him, especially in the playoffs. But it has to start building now. Pop can't just expect to turn up minutes in the playoffs for someone who's been a scrub his entire career.
Yeah, it's almost like they have never watched the Spurs when they say Dedmon will get significantly run in the PO's. If anything, he might get less if Pop keeps his status quo from the last 6/7 seasons.
Dedmon has not played awfully lot with the other starters in place of Gasol, however the defensive rating of the starting unit + Dedmon is ridiculously bad. Can't draw conclusions but it's interesting.
That's a damn good article, Bill. Thanks for posting.
I know that people keep claiming that the Spurs have the #1 defense in the league. But they have to know that the Spurs don't have the best defense in the league - especially against certain teams. I don't "hate" Pau or Tony. (I'm actually really glad that the Spurs were able to sign Pau in the offseason.) I'm just realistic that I don't think they are enough to allow the Spurs to beat the better teams that they will meet in the playoffs, in 7 game series. And Pau's defense is a big part of that. A good defensive team really, really needs an anchor in the middle. Pau isn't that.
I'm glad that this writer had enough sense to correct the BS that Kawhi's defensive numbers somehow indicate that he is "hurting the team". Reading that was sort of like watching an episode of MythBusters - I don't know what the truth is, but I know that's not it. This article talks about how he is covering for the team's two worst defenders, and that fits with what we're seeing. You would expect Pop to be willing to sacrifice individual numbers, for the overall good of the team. It's what he's always done. That even makes sense, but it's a problem when the whole is still so watered down that it can't get the job done.
I know I've said it more than a few times, but: Pau and Tony are good enough for most nights and most teams. Good enough to let the Spurs rack up a very good regular season record. Against teams with the personnel and coaching to exploit their weaknesses? (Meaning the teams still standing after the first round of the playoffs.) Everything would have to align perfectly for them to make it to the Finals - much less win the Championship. That's not hate, and it's not pessimism. I'm not "failing to support my team". It's just my best assessment of what this team has to work with.
The good news is, if they can upgrade those two positions, they have one of a core. (Maybe Murray grows up fast, and becomes the PG version of Kawhi - the overachiever that lasted too long in the draft.) I've lobbied for quite a while that Simmons is underrated and underappreciated here. He's been much better on defense than most people seem to think - some nights he's come in and really changed the tempo of the game with his D. This writer also gives LMA credit for his defense, which is sadly missing here on ST.
I was probably the first poster to mention Dedmon in the off-season, he was my first choice and I've been a fan for a while, but you're delusional if you think he will play significant playoff minutes, tbh
They're also delusional if they think Simmons will play serious minutes..he's a turnover machine that can't function in the half court, most of his damage is done against 2nd and 3rd stringers + garbage time..wouldn't be shocked if Anderson takes his spot by the playoffs..
exactly. How he's coaching now is exactly how he's gonna coach in the playoffs. He's not gonna use the best lineups possible, he's gonna use his veterans
I was probably the first poster to mention Dedmon in the off-season, he was my first choice and I've been a fan for a while, but you're delusional if you think he will play significant playoff minutes, tbh
They're also delusional if they think Simmons will play serious minutes..he's a turnover machine that can't function in the half court, most of his damage is done against 2nd and 3rd stringers + garbage time..wouldn't be shocked if Anderson takes his spot by the playoffs..
You were consistent about hoping Dedmon could be signed. I still disagree with you about Simmons. Especially disagree that he won't see minutes in the playoffs. I don't think Pop has any choice. We'll meet back here in June and talk about it.
I think he'll see minutes, but I'd bet that it won't be a substantial amount..You were consistent about hoping Dedmon could be signed. I still disagree with you about Simmons. Especially disagree that he won't see minutes in the playoffs. I don't think Pop has any choice. We'll meet back here in June and talk about it.
We all know Pop doesnt give a horse's ass about any of this and will continue to play Manu/Parker and Pau in crunch time. He'll wait until the second half of an elimination game.
Pop probably won't even play dedmon until we're in an elimination game. Same old story as tiago and cojo to a lesser extent.
Mainstream Spurs blogs-- PtR and the now defunct 48 minutes of -- are no different from national/local media in their uncritical stance and total obeisance to Pop as this kind of infallible coaching deity despite his recent dismal playoffs performances..
Like many have said, Dedmon and Bertans won't gain the trust of Poop until this team is staring down elimination..We have seen this in movie before..
And the worshiping at the altar of our washed-up coach will continue, nonetheless..
Well you could be right. I said the same thing about Kyle last year. The biggest thing, IMO, is that the team really has to have some foot speed on the floor - especially at the wing. I could write a couple of paragraphs, but you know that much is true.
As for Simmons' turnovers? I don't think Anderson is an upgrade in that department. 82games has a "hands rating" stat. Yeah, I know, no stat is perfect. But it at least gives a look to turnovers and offensive fouls. Simmons' hands rating is better than Anderson. Simmons gets to the FT line a LOT more than Anderson (one of my pet stats) - like twice as often. Simmons dishes out more AST's, and gets almost as many blocks. Really, the only place Anderson is better is in rebounding, which sort of reinforces what I keep saying about Kyle not being a 2.
So what does that leave? Right now, at least, Manu doesn't look up to getting extended minutes. Increase Danny's minutes? Murray at the 2? Actually I kind of like Murray at the 2, but not this year.
I've learned not to think I can predict what Pop might do. But unless the Spurs make an acquisition before the deadline, I don't see how Simmons can fail to get some significant minutes.
BTW - Dedmon wasn't even on my radar before I started reading your posts about signing him. If he was on anyone else's radar before that, they weren't talking about it. He's looking like one of an offseason steal right about now. Definitely a piece the Spurs needed, and I don't know who they could have actually gotten who would have been as good.
To be honest, Dedmon playing time is the least of my worries. Right now, I am not even sure Kawhi will play 35 MPG in the playoffs vs the other contenders..
This is the same senile coach who let Kawhi and Green chill next to him on the sideline as Durant -- leading OKC 2nd unit-- was destroying our hapless bench..
You two still talking about it in June sounds like a best-case scenario to meWe'll meet back here in June and talk about it.
You two still talking about it in June sounds like a best-case scenario to me
If Pau sees any time in the final minutes of a playoff game the Spurs are doomed. He might be the laziest defender for a big that the Spurs have had in I don't even know how many years.
I agree a lot with GSH
I also find their defensive ranking absolutely baffling because more often than not they fail the eye test. It's always a layup drill and if they are going up against any decent bigs or anyone remotely athletic the Spurs tend to suffer a lot.
I don't get how Spurs are okay closing the game out with a very slow when Dedmon is the one the deters other teams from attacking the rim. What little Pau gets on the offensive is negated tenfold on the defensive end.
^^
The reason SA's defense looks worse than its overall ranking is because there has been a colossal defensive drop-off, league-wide, this season..
Utah is ranked #1 with a defensive rating of 104, this season..last year's #1 defense had a 99 rating..if you put the 2016-2017 Jazz in the 2015-2016 season, their defense would be ranked 8h..
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
