Kyle is showing very good things on the defensive end. I so hope he keeps it up and continues to find comfort letting it fly on O.
Bertans is showing very good things on the offensive end. I so hope he learns good, fundamental, positional defense and becomes instinctive, on that end, with more playing time.
Those two guys are going to be needed and soon.
There's probably some middle ground between what Blake and Chinook are saying.
Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning
While Bertans has more mobility, it could be fair to say kyle, defensively shows more functional mobility, especially if we're isolating lateral mobility from other directional movements
Nailed. Let's bury this coffin...
yes,a lineup with Kyle, Bertans, Kawhi and Aldridge (Dedman) would have all the size and athleticism to give a to the worriers
I concur.
Lol functional mobility.
If that's another word for high IQ, yeah, nobody is arguing that.
I would worry a bit with all the off ball movement from the warriors with Anderson/Bertans as it stands now.
I see the potential with the size, but idk if they'd be ready at this point. We get 2 more games against them tho for Pop to tinker and see what works.
I don't disagree with this. I do think when replying to the original question as to how Kyle can stay in front of people better than Bertans can, functional mobility as you put it is what matters.
been saying it for a while... glad everyone is getting on board
Kyle's "functional mobility" over Bertans can be argued to no end, up and down and honestly, it will mean nothing, in the end.
I think Kyle's very good defensive movements are more from his high IQ and anticipation. He makes movements with his hands and arms that have nothing to do with his "mobility".
He "allows" players to get past him so he can maintain a backside blocking angle...
He knows how to anticipate a pass and use his arm length to do good things.
That kid is awesome on D, until he is overwhelmed athletically.
Bertans has enough mobility to keep guys in front of him, but I don't think he has the "arms" (to put it simply) to disrupt like Kyle can.
Maybe in a year, or two (if he's a film rat) Bertans can build that kind of defensive anticipation, but he's just a rookie right now, bouncing about and doing his try-hard, more than his cerebral.
Kyle just has it, for anticipating what's going on, on the court- no matter how slow he moves.
Arguing anything over the Internet "will mean nothing, in the end". But we enjoy it which is why we're on a message board
Ultimately true, but I did happen to write a whole lot more than that. So I guess I'm my own worst hypocrite, lol.
Still... good points. Props, me!
Thank you... me.
Kyle has good reflexes and instincts... you don't have to be athletic to "read" your guy and see what's coming. Manu still defends at a pretty high level when we all know your lateral movement is shot at that age, because he also has good instincts and savvy (plus he puts the work, fighting through screens and not giving up).
It's serviceable, but obviously not ideal. Much like Manu, sometimes Kyle guesses wrong, and it's a fest, because there's simply no athleticism/explosion to make up for the mistake (unlike, say, Simmons or even Lebron, who can run the full size of the court and block a shot in like 3 seconds flat).
Then again, having that is better than a lot of players that have neither the athleticism, the instincts or have them but don't put forth the effort to defend.
I'm always intrigued when I watch a guy play and think he's not that good, but the results say differently. Kyle is one of those guys. I mentioned in another thread, but I'm thinking that he's just got really good hands and hand/eye coordination. I've started keying on watching him, and I've seen quite a few plays where other guys would draw whistles (reaching), but Kyle manages to get a clean deflection. Kind of the way people marveled that Tim could get so many blocks without his feet leaving the floor.
In his first couple of seasons I kept noticing plays where he was out in no-man's land on defense, and just doing nothing. I mean nothing. I commented on it at the time. I don't see that happening much anymore, which is a big step forward I guess. He's still slow as molasses, but you can't just shrug off the success he has.
I'm also watching him go to the basket, and he takes bizarrely long strides. (Long, slooow strides.) But it lets him change directions and cover a lot of ground. As long as the paint isn't packed, he's pretty effective with it.
Murray is sort of the opposite. He's obviously quick. But when he dribbles, he does this thing sometimes where he bends over at the waist. Watch him, and every time he does it, he shifts gears the wrong direction and becomes much slower than he could be. And when he does that, he just invites defenders to attack him. As silly as it sounds, I think Kyle sort of lulls defenders to sleep, and then uses those long strides to get past them. He also uses that to make some damned good passes, which is a generally underrated part of his game.
He pissed me off something terrible in Cleveland. But you have to give credit where it's due. My expectation for him was that he would develop into a solid rotation player, and he's pretty close to that. He needs a little more consistency, but so do most role players. That's why they're role players. I still think it's the foot speed issue that keeps him from being better. But if the Spurs tried to get another player for his salary, they would have their own drawbacks that would be just as big. That, I think, says he's a "legit" NBA player - he just isn't going to develop some day into a star.
Watching Bertans makes me wish like that the Spurs had brought him over right away. Maybe he avoids the injuries. I know roster space was a problem, but I think about "what if". What if he had been brought up in that defensive culture the Spurs had at the time? (Pop still stressed D, but I really don't believe it's the same here as it used to be. Maybe I'm wrong.) Still, without going to the D-League, the lack of minutes might have developed him less than Europe.
But watch him now, and imagine him without any injuries, and with several years in the Spurs' system. Damn.
Wow, you seem like an angry guy. I'm not having an argument with you, I'm just giving some information. Kyle is a little more fluid and has better footwork and balance. Bertans is more explosive and is quicker. It is all different types of athleticism. Make of that what you will.
Yeah, i would say Amare Stoudamire was twice more athletic than Tiago Splitter in his hay days, but the Golden God was MUCH more mobile especially laterally in defense & defending the smaller guys on the perimeter.
Some of us have been praising Anderson since Day One. Good to see the rest of Spurstalk has finally caught up. Bertans and Murray have also been on my radar since Day One.
Not a big fan or Forbes or Simmons although I thought Simmons was going to break out this year. I think he's reached his peak and can be a serviceable third string guy.
I think they wanted to bring him over sooner but he got injured one year after another... I can't remember where I saw it, but it's not made up trust me.
SG is right.
I am with you. I have been the noisiest on Anderson bc most guys hate him (really not most... there are many like you who have just observed him develop and root for him, but who don't post often... but there are a lot of trolls who do hate on him and he's the "butt" of many jokes, but anyways I kind of became noisy myself about him and it backfired on me bc guys think he's the only guy I like too, which is untrue.) Anyways I was not as high on Simmons myself just bc he came in older and I had watched him in the dleague just being a raw athlete for a season prior to the one he had and I didn't think he could fix up his issues of playing out of control at times, and not handling the pressure well but he has surprised me and I am glad to have been wrong about him.
I like Forbes enough. He can shoot and can get as hot as Mills at times, but I have a concern with him that if his shot is not on, he doesn't give you absolutely anything else. He's a rookie that Pop is trying to have "expand" his ballhandling and playmaking so we will just have to see what he can do. They didn't waive him and his contract has become guaranteed so he has time to work out in the Spurs offense. If the Spurs are unable to reup Mills he could have a role in the team as a designated shooter. It would be a very different bench with other guys probably having more prominent roles anyways, but he does need to add some things to his game... I think he showed he was a decent enough ballhandler in these past few games. He really needed a game to show he could shoot and he picked a good one against the Raptors bc his shooting was needed.
Gosh thanks because my Google is broken
That's a lot of words
So hes Patty pretty much, just needs more time marinating.
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