Alternative facts: Did 3-5 million "illegals" vote in the 2016 election?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Just so we're clear, youre implying that Trump is pretending to look stupid in front of the world on purpose so he can better suppress the democratic vote.

I think he wanted an investigation into illegal voting and knew the media would call him on his claim with the end result being an investigation leading to voter ID laws. I've learned from watching Trump this election cycle not to make a knee jerk reaction days after he says something.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Your Basic Primer on Why Trump's Voter Fraud Claims Are Bull

Did you mask the link on purpose because it's one of boutons favorite sites? http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...s-are-bull

[Splits]

Did you mask the link on purpose because it's one of boutons favorite sites? http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...s-are-bull

I put the link in the le of the article and the second sentence starts with "TPM"

Care care to disagree with any of his points? I know it's no 4chan pizza story, but...

[TheSanityAnnex]

I put the link in the le of the article and the second sentence starts with "TPM"

Care care to disagree with any of his points? I know it's no 4chan pizza story, but...

I'd care for you to answer my question.

[clambake]

i prefer thin crust.

[Splits]

I'd care for you to answer my question.

It was an implicit "no".

Now, what points do you care to dispute?

[TheSanityAnnex]

It was an implicit "no".

Now, what points do you care to dispute?

Thank you for a straight answer. I never questioned the article's content just your method of presentation, carry on.

[DMC]

Voter fraud is smoke and mirrors disguising the real issue: Votes that simply don't matter. 3.5 million people, legal or not, are irrelevant if their votes didn't swing the election. If you had 30,000 voters in Florida you could buy, you could likely swing an election here and there. In California, you'd be out of luck.

This is the kind of that happens when you spend your entire campaign trying to de-legitimize the opponent and the next several weeks rallying for support for your previous failed endeavor. Eventually you'll piss someone off and they'll come after you, but now that someone has the power of the highest office in the land.

[boutons_deux]

3.5 million of voter fraud is ALWAYS relevant, in EVERY election.

Hillary lost the EC by 80K votes out of 120M+

Comey, Assange, Kobach elected Trash. He's ING ILLEGITIMATE and mentally ill, and he's going down.

Hillary going negative on Trash is bad, but Trash going negative on Hillary is nothing?

Hillary talk more policy than Trash, but Trash appealed to base emotions, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and LIED non-stop, and you ing idiots sucked it all down.

[boutons_deux]

As Trump screeches 'voter fraud' claims, Steve Bannon is registered to vote in TWO different states

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017...apo-went-there

but did Kobach block Bannon from voting?

[Spurminator]

No they don't. They suspect it. Knowledge is much different than su ion. Besides, are we talking about illegal votes or illegal immigrants voting?

I suspect there is no such thing as the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Based on Trump's anecdote that is driving this entire thing, it's clear that he believes most of the votes are from illegal immigrants, but he likely also believes the James O'Keefe-type conspiracy peddling of democrats recruiting felons and others to vote using the names of the dead, etc. Regardless, no rational person (even on Trump's team) believes 3-5 million illegal votes were cast.

[RandomGuy]

They don't ask you for any ID when you show up to vote.

Maybe not 5 million but I'd bet the number is in the thousands of undo ented, resident aliens, felons, etc that voted for the Dems.

2000/128,825,223 =0.0016%

5,000,000/2000 = 2500

So the effect was overstated by three orders of magnitude, and cons uted 16 ten-thousandths of a percent of the total votes cast.

Sounds about right, given the data we have, which is pretty much non-existent, for a supposed massive fraud.

LOL massive conspiracy theory

The Defendant in Chief is allowing himself to be painted into a corner by his own ego.

[RandomGuy]

I think he wanted an investigation into illegal voting and knew the media would call him on his claim with the end result being an investigation leading to voter ID laws. I've learned from watching Trump this election cycle not to make a knee jerk reaction days after he says something.

I think you give a mediocre mind far too much credit.

But hey, let's go with it.

The investigation, if ordered, will have to be paid for.

Dems get to point out the cost.

The likelihood of finding something is remote, to be charitable.

Dems get to point out the lack of evidence, and get to talk about Republican voter suppression efforts.

Not exactly good for the Republican party to spend money on their presidents conspiracy theory, only to come up empty.

[Chucho]

LOL off, this is Trump's conspiracy theory we're talking about here.

You off. I was talking to Pussy In Boots and his bat crazy conspiracy theories and fake-news spreading.

Help yourself to the barrel o' corks there on your way out. Libs say they're good for anal leakage.

[baseline bum]

You off. I was talking to Pussy In Boots and his bat crazy conspiracy theories and fake-news spreading.

Help yourself to the barrel o' corks there on your way out. Libs say they're good for anal leakage.

LOL ing about liberals when your boy in the White House is a massive conspiracy theorist. LOL him claiming Cruz's dad was in on the plot to kill JFK.

[Splits]

You off. I was talking to Pussy In Boots and his bat crazy conspiracy theories and fake-news spreading.

Help yourself to the barrel o' corks there on your way out. Libs say they're good for anal leakage.

Why don't you enlighten us on the Sandy Hook "facts" you've got?

[Chucho]

LOL ing about liberals when your boy in the White House is a massive conspiracy theorist. LOL him claiming Cruz's dad was in on the plot to kill JFK.

He wasn't and I'm not ing about Libs rn. I'm poking fun at the Political forum's Avante- just a more bat crazy version who is lonelier.

But Cruz's dad wasn't in on the JFK hit. It was Lyndon Baines Johnson and the Bankers who killed him. People want to talk about "Trumps abuses of power on Day 1", yet no one on the Left talks about The Template's (Template for all future Lib Pres. to lie about war, civil rights and wealth gap) 1st EO he passed within an hour of being sworn in- repealing JFK's EO taking the Fed back from private bankers' control. The Left gladly killed their only decent Pres because he actually showed genuine care for his people.

[Chucho]

Why don't you enlighten us on the Sandy Hook "facts" you've got?

Like with JFK and 9/11, I'm a believer that physics just aren't defied during shady investigations nor do I accept everything the Government tells us, especially the Left since they have a proven track record of lying, getting caught lying and trying to bail out of the lie with more lies.

Tell me more about the NBA being fixed and the "facts" you've got?

[vy65]

This is what I said, "I wish people would not issue blanket statements like "vaccines are safe" or "vaccines don't cause autism." They have no idea which child might be on the edge health-wise/psychologically and if those vaccines are what pushed them over the edge."

There is no credible, peer-reviewed, scientific evidence that supports the claim that vaccines cause autism. In this case, the blanket statement is correct.

I have no objections to vaccines in healthy children, but I would like the option of not vaccinating my child should I have a child with health or some other mental/psychological issue.

Too bad polio doesn't distinguish between healthy children and those with mental/psychological issues.

[Splits]

Like with JFK and 9/11, I'm a believer that physics just aren't defied during shady investigations nor do I accept everything the Government tells us, especially the Left since they have a proven track record of lying, getting caught lying and trying to bail out of the lie with more lies.

Tell me more about the NBA being fixed and the "facts" you've got?

lol Sandy Hook truther

[baseline bum]

Like with JFK and 9/11, I'm a believer that physics just aren't defied during shady investigations nor do I accept everything the Government tells us, especially the Left since they have a proven track record of lying, getting caught lying and trying to bail out of the lie with more lies.

Tell me more about the NBA being fixed and the "facts" you've got?

You're a 9-11 truther? How was physics defied in the official story for the JFK assassination?

[SnakeBoy]

Dems get to point out the cost...

...and get to talk about Republican voter suppression efforts.

Is the debt/deficit a winning issue for the Dems?

Dems have been talking about voter suppression for 8 years while losing power at every level of govt. How is it suddenly going to be a winning issue for them?

[spurs1990]

2000/128,825,223 =0.0016%

5,000,000/2000 = 2500

So the effect was overstated by three orders of magnitude, and cons uted 16 ten-thousandths of a percent of the total votes cast.

Sounds about right, given the data we have, which is pretty much non-existent, for a supposed massive fraud.

LOL massive conspiracy theory

The Defendant in Chief is allowing himself to be painted into a corner by his own ego.

I like Trump, and am dead set on being as even-keel about him on this forum as possible...and I'm more than willing to say he could be egoing it up with this thing.
I mean it's obviously not past his character trait, much to the chagrin of people who despise him.

BUT, don't you think either way we should agree there needs to be better accountability for who votes?

For that 3-5 mil illegal vote figure, I suspect Trump used a study from right-wing Infowars.com to get his number from.
Infowars used their data from what looks to be a very haphazardly placed website called votefraud.org, which may also be a partisan outfit.

Now I recognize easily how this claim can't be substantiated based on flimsy-ass internet based material, but here's what I know from my own POV about how people vote:

An hour before my local precinct closed Nov 8, I walked in and as soon as I pulled out my ID, the attendant at the table refused to look at it.
Since I hadn't registered anyway I was taken to another room to do something called an 'provisional' ballot. Again I pulled out my DL and the worker said "oh we don't look at those here".

I mean if this type of 'c'est la vie' oversight is common at precincts all over, well then I suspect it's pretty easy to commit voter fraud.

(I do want to say I didn't actually vote...I walked out after they brought out the provisional ballot form.)

*note - I have never voted before, and until Nov 8 had never even attempted to do so.
I just wanted to find out what it actually entailed.

[RandomGuy]

This is what I said, "I wish people would not issue blanket statements like "vaccines are safe" or "vaccines don't cause autism." They have no idea which child might be on the edge health-wise/psychologically and if those vaccines are what pushed them over the edge."

Vaccines do not cause autism.

This is not something that is subject to interpretation.

This is a verifiable, objective fact.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

Objective:
To evaluate the association between autism and the level of immunologic stimulation received from
vaccines administered during the first 2 years of life.

Study design:
We analyzed data from a case-control study conducted in 3 managed care organizations (MCOs) of
256 children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and 752 control children matched on birth year, sex, and MCO. In
addition to the broader category of ASD, we also evaluated autistic disorder and ASD with regression. ASD diagnoses
were validated through standardized in-person evaluations. Exposure to total antibody-stimulating proteins
and polysaccharides from vaccines was determined by summing the antigen content of each vaccine received, as
obtained from immunization registries and medical records. Potential confounding factors were ascertained from
parent interviews and medical charts. Conditional logistic regression was used to assess associations between
ASD outcomes and exposure to antigens in selected time periods.

Results
The aOR (95% CI) of ASD associated with each 25-unit increase in total antigen exposure was 0.999
(0.994-1.003) for ulative exposure to age 3 months, 0.999 (0.997-1.001) for ulative exposure to age 7
months, and 0.999 (0.998-1.001) for ulative exposure to age 2 years. Similarly, no increased risk was found
for autistic disorder or ASD with regression.

Conclusion:
In this study of MCO members, increasing exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides
in vaccines during the first 2 years of life was not related to the risk of developing an ASD. (J Pediatr
2013;163:561-7).

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3...3/pdf?ext=.pdf

It has been studied. The above item is not the only study, all reaching the same conclusion.

No link has been found.

[RandomGuy]

I like Trump, and am dead set on being as even-keel about him on this forum as possible...and I'm more than willing to say he could be egoing it up with this thing.
I mean it's obviously not past his character trait, much to the chagrin of people who despise him.

BUT, don't you think either way we should agree there needs to be better accountability for who votes?

For that 3-5 mil illegal vote figure, I suspect Trump used a study from right-wing Infowars.com to get his number from.
Infowars used their data from what looks to be a very haphazardly placed website called votefraud.org, which may also be a partisan outfit.

Now I recognize easily how this claim can't be substantiated based on flimsy-ass internet based material, but here's what I know from my own POV about how people vote:

An hour before my local precinct closed Nov 8, I walked in and as soon as I pulled out my ID, the attendant at the table refused to look at it.
Since I hadn't registered anyway I was taken to another room to do something called an 'provisional' ballot. Again I pulled out my DL and the worker said "oh we don't look at those here".

I mean if this type of 'c'est la vie' oversight is common at precincts all over, well then I suspect it's pretty easy to commit voter fraud.

(I do want to say I didn't actually vote...I walked out after they brought out the provisional ballot form.)

*note - I have never voted before, and until Nov 8 had never even attempted to do so.
I just wanted to find out what it actually entailed.

It is remarkably easy to commit a wide range of felonies.

The problem with this though, is try walking into the same precinct four or five times to vote, assuming you wanted to.

Or alternately, try walking into five different precincts to vote, waiting in line each time.

You have now added 5 votes out of 123,000,000 if successful.

Now try replicating that 10,000 times to have some hope of effecting results in any material way.

Massive fraud like that would, by necessity, involve large numbers of people, and make for a conspiracy that is easy to crack.

The implausibility of a massive fraud scenario is the same implausibility that crushes the "faked moon landing" and "9-11 inside job" memes.

I think Trump is dangerously ignorant, and surrounding himself with people who have every reason to filter out necessary, true information.

I am willing to give the man a modest benefit of doubt in the hope that " it, let's try this" succeeds, but my understanding of his policies and positions leads me to think he will fail spectacularly, and damage the country in ways that we will be dealing with until I croak.

The only silver lining is that the Republican party will be so badly damaged that they will fail spectacularly in the 2020 elections, allowing some reversal of the corrosive, democracy destroying gerrymandering that the GOP has done.