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This +1000
Lol what a stupid post/thread whatever.
Tony was top 3 in 12-13 and Manu top 3 SG (with Kobe and Wade) in the last 15 years...
Even Pop admited that the way he coached them killed their individual accomplishments, both should have better stats and more ASG or all NBA appearances
Peak Manu was way more efficient than Harden... Harden is a ball hog who just now realized he has to get his teammates involved in the offense. His usage rate is much higher than any Manu ever had, but defensively Manu's instincts are light years ahead of anything Harden has accomplished on that end of the ball.
Only reason you say this is 'cause Harden went to the Rockets to be the top dog, had Manu done the same (or Harden had stayed as the 6th man on OKC), you would be singing a different tune. Manu has proven he can be the 1st option in Europe, in international play and, yep, in the NBA also ('08 and '11). So please, stop underrating the guy.
Last edited by DAF86; 02-06-2017 at 12:41 PM.
IMO, TD was entering his prime the year Tony came into the NBA.
They weren't as good as other sidekicks like Kobe, Pippen, Kareem, etc, but to be fair, the other greats didn't have a team like the 2014 squad where they didn't have to carry a load(a rare example where a team actually performed better when the bigger names were on the bench) ..
True, but I don't think Manu was ever a numbers guy. Even playing for Argentina..He's a lot closer to spurs manu than a perceived what if manu if he left for another team.
Even though Ginobili is probably the most underrated player of all time to non Spurs fans and Parker's prime, at least, is underrated among Spurs fans, they probably are. Both had stretches of superstar caliber play, but were never superstars.
In theory, this should enhance Duncan's legacy, yet it somehow doesn't because as usual, Pop is given the majority of the credit for this.
Do you understand that a great great Robin stature is on the same level of what Pippen did for MJ back then ? I don't think putting Manu on that pedestal is a diss on him.
Don't try to spin the argument. I'm talking about your Harden=Batman/Ginobili=Robin comment. Do you think Manu couldn't have been a 1st option on a relatively succesful NBA team?
And i have said Manu can't be a 1st option on a successful NBA team when ?? Do you pick an argument for the sake of it ? Of course Manu can be a more than decent 1st option, but he's not a transcendent talent like some other, and that's not a knock on him, it is what it is.
And to clarify , yes a great Robin can be Batman too, but not a great one.
Last edited by SpursIndonesia; 02-06-2017 at 10:22 PM.
So Harden has "trascendent talent" and Manu doesn't? Sorry for all the questions son but I'm trying to figure out why did you say that Harden is a batman and Manu is a robin.
And if Harden has a transcendent talent he won't be a poor Batman, will he ? Jordan, Duncan, Olajuwon, James, O'Neal are transcendent, Kobe, Harden, Nash, Robinson (sorry five-oh) and even as good as Curry is, are not.
Ok, so why did you say Harden is a batman and Manu a robin?
Because Manu had Duncan in front of him, dohh ??
Ginobili wiped the floor with a Duncan led American Olympic team. Who knows what Ginobili wouldve done on another team.
That USA NT was one of the weakest ever (all raw athleticism without outside shooting against packed paint/zone defense in international game, superstars got pussified with only TD & Iverson as the babysitters, IIRC), and Manu + Argentina NT was in their peak, playing waay over their head, truly an inspiring tournament for them, it happens.
Yeah, we never knew, but i still think the way Manu play his game, his greatness will be neutered some if he has to carry a load as a Batman to ensure his body won't break down half way the season in.
This is such nonsense. That team had Wade, Melo, Lebron, Odom, TD, Iverson... you could pin it on Larry Brown and his ty coaching (making Marbury a centerpiece), the international refs and a bunch of other stuff, but that was a pivotal moment for Team USA (Team USA leadership itself said they studied that ARG team to rebuild itself afterwards), and had nothing to do with lack of talent. The teams that competed later on and won also had young talent in KD, Westbrook, etc, never had a problem getting gold. Not to mention that was the 2nd time that ARG team beat Team USA (only team to beat them twice, IIRC) so it's not like it happened to be a fluke game.
Manu in the 2005 playoffs averaged 33.5mpg. That was during what was arguably his peak (age 27, and he come over the the NBA late, relatively speaking). That's what Kawhi is averaging this season (highest of his career) at age 25.
Frankly, much ado was done about how he was going to be finished by age 30 because he looked like a ping-pong ball out there, but he learned to change his game and still be extremely effective.
That said, I'm glad he teamed up with Tim and the Spurs. Even if you could've projected him to be a 'Batman' to the style of Vince Carter or T-Mac, he might be recognized as a good talent, but wouldn't have the rings. And the Spurs would certainly have at least one or two less too.
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