Spurs: Kawhi Leonard WILL be a top 30 all-time player

[ambchang]

Do you not understand how stats work, or how WS works?

Both Pau and Bynum played with Kobe, Kobe went a month stretch playing without either, so obviously the team overall was much worse when they missed their best big man.

WS measures the impact a player has on the team. Never mind that of the best 4 man lineup the Lakers saw that season didn't have Kobe in it. Neither did the best three man line up , nor the 2nd best three man lineup.

Never mind Kobe finished 7th on this own team in ORating that year, or 10th in Drating.

Kobe was only slightly ahead of Gasol in BPM, and ahead of Gasol in VORP purely because of games played.

Pau in Memphis was going to miss the Playoffs with a better supporting cast than Kobe had at the time

How in the world was having Bynum, and Odom worse than having Rudy Gay and Mike Miller?

And Kobe led the 2001 Lakers in Winshares in the Playoffs, by your argument he was the most valuable player on the most dominant Playoff team of all-time.

Except that was the playoffs, where matchups play a huge role. Kobe was matching up Steve Smith while Shaq was battling Duncan and Robinson. That made a difference. Over the course of the season when you play all kinds of teams is when ws provides an accurate review of a players' worth on his own team.

All I know is that Pau Gasol was 0 - 16 in the Playoffs without Kobe leading up to 2014 before he went to a Playoff team in Chicago

All I know is that Kobe missed the playoffs without the most dominant frontline in the league. 4 times.

To penalize Gasol for the playoff failures because he over achieved and dragged these horrible teams to the playoffs is hilarious.

Why is it so hard for people to give Achilles his one MVP? He led his team to the top seed in the West with less help than CP0 or Duncan and outplayed both H2H in April in games that decided their seeding, he's an overrated chucker but he did do these things you know.

Why is it so hard to see Gasol, Odom and Bynum was a matchup nightmare for every single team in the league?

Duncan didn't deserve 08 for sure, it should have been CP3 or Lebron that year.

[PopTheGOAT]

Kawhi is Destined to ve the GOAT.

I wanna stop you right there, but I'm not even gonna think about doubting Kawhi at this point. I don't see him ever cracking the top 10 but I could see top 15-20. But who knows? Spurs could add another key piece and win 2-3 more during his career.

[DAF86]

Already making top 50 lists at age 25.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...34#post8906634

[Thomas82]

Already making top 50 lists at age 25.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...34#post8906634

I was just about to post this.

[ambchang]

That was a horrible list.
Too high:
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
Garnett
Pippen
Wade
Curry
Nash
Durant
Paul
Cousy
Kawhi
Parker
Ray Allen
Laimbeer (WTF?)
Marion
Amare


Too low:
Kareem
Shaq
Barkley
Robertson
Isiah
Dr. J
Robinson
Mchale
Stockton

Some of the choices are just full blown re ed.

[DAF86]

That was a horrible list.
Too high:
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
Garnett
Pippen
Wade
Curry
Nash
Durant
Paul
Cousy
Kawhi
Parker
Ray Allen
Laimbeer (WTF?)
Marion
Amare


Too low:
Kareem
Shaq
Barkley
Robertson
Isiah
Dr. J
Robinson
Mchale
Stockton

Some of the choices are just full blown re ed.

In what planet Duncan at 7 is too high? The 5 to 8 range is where he deserves to be, imho. And Hakeem should be top 10, he's 11. He isn't too high.

[ambchang]

In what planet Duncan at 7 is too high? The 5 to 8 range is where he deserves to be, imho. And Hakeem should be top 10, he's 11. He isn't too high.

I read he wrong list then. I saw the one with Duncan at the 3.