Is Tony injured, tbh?

[DPG21920]

And you'd have no basis for that other than your undying loyalty for Enrique. Name me a game when Paddy blatantly struggled to bring the ball up the floor?

He's not a traditional PG. Noone is arguing otherwise. I'm arguing the suggestion that a PG has to be a good penetrator for the team to be good. I mean it's ironic, bc Enrique can't even get to the rim or break down defenses anymore but somehow it's a requirement for Paddy to start. He won't ever be prime Enrique, but with continuity in the SL I don't see why he wouldn't be a great fit with the spacing he brings and occasionally have nights like he does with his national team. Pop has never said or treated Paddy like he isn't a PG btw, just like he never did with Hill. There isn't just one kind of effective PG despite what ST thinks every time they see someone as a threat to their beloved hero Enrique.

You keep using generic takes and ignoring all the data I shared. Actual evidence. Across multiple arguments. There is more than one type of good PG. Mills is none of them.

His defense isn't up to par. His ball handling isn't up to par. His vision isn't up to par. His ability to get into the paint is virtually non-existent. His ability to run an offense has not been good. And yes, there have been plenty of examples, especially in the playoffs where Mills is literally full court pressed like a college player because teams know he will cough up the ball.

I like Mills. He's a valuable player. He's NOT A PG.

[DPG21920]

And as an aside, if Pop wants to give Mills the starting job to see if with a bigger sample size it makes sense, I'm all for it. I just don't think anything we have seen to date has shown Mills is a better option, but I'm not against him getting more minutes to see.

[dabom]

You keep using generic takes and ignoring all the data I shared. Actual evidence. Across multiple arguments. There is more than one type of good PG. Mills is none of them.

His defense isn't up to par. His ball handling isn't up to par. His vision isn't up to par. His ability to get into the paint is virtually non-existent. His ability to run an offense has not been good. And yes, there have been plenty of examples, especially in the playoffs where Mills is literally full court pressed like a college player because teams know he will cough up the ball.

I like Mills. He's a valuable player. He's NOT A PG.

I guess Porker ain't an NBA player.

[DPG21920]

And if you're saying TP can't get into the paint anymore, then at Mills. THIS YEAR:

TP's percentage of points in the paint: 48%. Half of his points basically are coming in the paint. Not only that, but only 25% of his are assisted. That means TP is still scoring half his points in the paint (and you said he can't get there anymore) and he's having to manufacture that by himself 75% of the time.

PM's percentage of points in the paint: 17%. 17. And of the 17% that Mills actuall gets into the paint? He's assisted on 58% of them. He not only can't get in there much (obviously some of that is role and where he spots up, but there is plenty of game tape that shows his struggles), but when he is in there, due to his lack of handles/strength he basically needs to be dished to in order for it to happen.

[FkLA]

You have to understand that this is poor logic. First, it's very recent and TP is coming off an injury. Two, TP has played really bad since the injury (even missed a game). He's going with Mills because the only other option is Murray who is not going to play much.

Except for the very simple fact that it's been a somewhat regular occurrence this season. If you've watched all the games this season, then you know just as well as I do that this past week hasn't been the first time Pop has gone with Paddy to end games.

If your only leg to stand on, after all the detailed info I just provided you is "why did Pop go with Mills the last two games" I think you know the truth. The fact Pop is going with Mills for two games with TP coming off an injury does not change the mounds of data I just shared with you.

No matter how much worse TP may get that doesn't by default make Patty a better than TP option as a starting PG on a good team. Now, if TP gets worse and worse sure there is some point where Mills becomes better. However, up until now even with TP being pretty bad, Mills has not been a better option. TP declining further does not change that fact.

It's debatable. Paddy isn't lighting things up by any means. My main issue is with the whole 'TP is clearly the best option' hore . No PG on the team stands out above the rest. Naturally, the guy getting paid $15 mill to play the position deserves the most criticism despite your constant attempts to put down the $3 mill back-up instead.

[DPG21920]

I guess Porker ain't an NBA player.

That literally makes no sense. Mills is a better overall player at this point than TP. He provides more value than TP at his current contract. He plays his role better than TP does. He is still worse as a starting PG than TP. All of these things are true.

[dabom]

That literally makes no sense. Mills is a better overall player at this point than TP. He provides more value than TP at his current contract. He plays his role better than TP does. He is still worse as a starting PG than TP. All of these things are true.

One of them has a small sample size.

[DPG21920]

Except for the very simple fact that it's been a somewhat regular occurrence this season. If you've watched all the games this season, then you know just as well as I do that this past week hasn't been the first time Pop has gone with Paddy to end games.




It's debatable. Paddy isn't lighting things up by any means. My main issue is with the whole 'TP is clearly the best option' hore . No PG on the team stands out above the rest. Naturally, the guy getting paid $15 mill to play the position deserves the most criticism despite your constant attempts to put down the $3 mill back-up instead.

My attempts to put down Patty are in regards to people saying he's a PG. He's not. He's still a valuable player.

[DPG21920]

I don't know why I even try anymore.

[FkLA]

My attempts to put down Patty are in regards to people saying he's a PG. He's not. He's still a valuable player.

That's fine if you don't want to call him a PG. Let him play off ball and let Kawhi handle things, I mean that's basically what the team does when Enrique is broken down anyway. Just like Hill did with Manu.

If he helps the team more than a broken down Enrique it shouldn't really matter if Paddy fits your definition of a PG or not.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't know why I even try anymore.

Wise man.

[DPG21920]

You know what is funny as well - in pretty decent sample sizes (due to games missed by TP) in two-man units as much as people get mad at TP because of Kawhi TP/Kawhi pairing > Mills/Kawhi (for +/-)

[DPG21920]

That's fine if you don't want to call him a PG. Let him play off ball and let Kawhi handle things, I mean that's basically what the team does when Enrique is broken down anyway. Just like Hill did with Manu.

If he helps the team more than a broken down Enrique it shouldn't really matter if Paddy fits your definition of a PG or not.

I'm saying so far he hasn't given the same exact starting lineups that Tp plays with a boost. That's what you aren't grasping. Then in other moments beyond this year it's happened before too. Yes, TP playing with starters is a bigger sample, but that doesn't make all the data we have over the years with Mills statistically irrelevant.

[FkLA]

I mean all I see is people bringing up what Paddy doesn't bring to the table. I'd like to hear what it is exactly that a broken down Enrique brings? I'm not talking about the Enrique that plays well for a month or two either. The one that gets midnightpulp thinking he can be a third option. I'm talking about the one we've seen the past week.

[DPG21920]

I mean all I see is people bringing up what Paddy doesn't bring to the table. I'd like to hear what it is exactly that a broken down Enrique brings? I'm not talking about the Enrique that plays well for a month or two either. The one that gets midnightpulp thinking he can be a third option. I'm talking about the one we've seen the past week.

Even at a broken down level (this last week), TP's ability to quickly and efficiently get the team into offensive sets is better than Mills. Now, with TP not playing as good of defense and LMA/Danny going cold it's not enough. But the offense gets cleaner looks, especially lma with TP in over Mills.

[FkLA]

I'm saying so far he hasn't given the same exact starting lineups that Tp plays with a boost. That's what you aren't grasping. Then in other moments beyond this year it's happened before too. Yes, TP playing with starters is a bigger sample, but that doesn't make all the data we have over the years with Mills statistically irrelevant.

I'm not an idiot. Obviously I understand the numbers you posted. I just don't consider them the be all end all. One, they don't take into consideration the huge difference between Enrique when he's having his one or two good months of the year and the Enrique we see the rest of the year. Hey if Enrique could play like he does for those two months a year all the time we wouldn't be having this discussion bc that guy is clearly the best option. He always fall off a cliff though. Two, it doesn't account for continuity. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume continuity alone would help Paddy's numbers. He's still a net positive as is, even if his numbers aren't on par with Enrique's.

There's more to it than those numbers. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise. And yeah, I keep bringing up Pop going with Paddy to end games but it truly does speak volumes about Enrique when the coach is choosing to go with a guy whom you don't even consider a PG instead.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's fine if you don't want to call him a PG. Let him play off ball and let Kawhi handle things, I mean that's basically what the team does when Enrique is broken down anyway. Just like Hill did with Manu.

If he helps the team more than a broken down Enrique it shouldn't really matter if Paddy fits your definition of a PG or not.

Both players have different warts offensively, but both have the same warts on defense that get exposed in the playoffs.

Parker is the better point guard and better facilitator, and he allows Kawhi to take a damn breath here and there. Mills is the opposite, he's not a facilitator -- but he's a better spot up shooter than Parker. Both have different strengths, but each of their strengths are inconsistent from a game to game basis. Mills isn't money every game from the perimeter, he's actually off more often than he's on. When he's on, he's on and he'll go 4 for 6, but he'll be off the next game, two, or three or four.

Utilizing Mills more at PG, could mean a step back from Kawhi from an efficiency or defensive standpoint because of the the type of stamina that's exerted in the playoffs. He will need some playmaking help offensively in order for him to sustain the type of defense that's needed to win games -- Mills can't provide that.

All in all, both players will consistently be abused as pinatas defensively in the playoffs, while being inconsistent from game to game with their strengths on offense... its inevitable. We've seen it the last two playoff runs. And it's hard to choose one or the other, both have major flaws and both have skill sets on the offensive end that help Kawhi in different ways.

[DPG21920]

I'm not an idiot. Obviously I understand the numbers you posted. I just don't consider them the be all end all. One, they don't take into consideration the huge difference between Enrique when he's having his one or two good months of the year and the Enrique we see the rest of the year. Hey if Enrique could play like he does for those two months a year all the time we wouldn't be having this discussion bc that guy is clearly the best option. He always fall off a cliff though. Two, it doesn't account for continuity. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume continuity alone would help Paddy's numbers. He's still a net positive as is, even if his numbers aren't on par with Enrique's.

They do take TP's up's and down's into consideration. Those numbers are all-in net numbers for all the games played so far this year. Even with SO MANY more bad games than good, TP's numbers with the starters > Mills.

[DPG21920]

And to M4T point, that is why (in addition to TP health lately) why you see Mills over TP in the 4th. In the 4th, the ball is in Kawhi's hands more anyways, so you don't need TP to initiate - you need better shooting which Mills provides.

[FkLA]

They do take TP's up's and down's into consideration. Those numbers are all-in net numbers for all the games played so far this year. Even with SO MANY more bad games than good, TP's numbers with the starters > Mills.

I get that, obviously. I'm saying going with an average when a broken down Enrique probably can't reach that average is a flawed way to look at things. I'd be interested to see what his numbers look like when we exclude that good month or two, as that'll probably be closer to what we can expect from here on out.

[DPG21920]

I get that, obviously. I'm saying going with an average when a broken down Enrique probably can't reach that average is a flawed way to look at things. I'd be interested to see what his numbers look like when we exclude that good month or two, as that'll probably be closer to what we can expect from here on out.

I get what you are saying, but if these numbers are all-in maybe he's not as bad as often as you think he is. But yes, the fact he looks terrible post ASB after getting that knee knocked is a bad sign. I'm all for giving Mills more run but the offense, despite him shooting better than TP, will suffer most likely if he were the lead guard the majority of the game.

[MaNu4Tres]

And to M4T point, that is why (in addition to TP health lately) why you see Mills over TP in the 4th. In the 4th, the ball is in Kawhi's hands more anyways, so you don't need TP to initiate - you need better shooting which Mills provides.

I would much rather Spurs opt to not pick between TP or Mills late against Warriors or Rockets.

I'd throw out an Dedmon, Aldridge, Green, Simmons or Manu, Kawhi line up. Yes you give up a shooter, but there's no holes on the defensive perimeter vs. those two teams where 100% of their offensive is initiated from. I value more stops, and trust Kawhi and the boys to get in enough buckets.

[FkLA]

Both players have different warts offensively, but both have the same warts on defense that get exposed in the playoffs.

Parker is the better point guard and better facilitator, and he allows Kawhi to take a damn breath here and there. Mills is the opposite, he's not a facilitator -- but he's a better spot up shooter than Parker. Both have different strengths, but each of their strengths are inconsistent from a game to game basis. Mills isn't money every game from the perimeter, he's actually off more often than he's on. When he's on, he's on and he'll go 4 for 6, but he'll be off the next game, two, or three or four.

Utilizing Mills more at PG, could mean a step back from Kawhi from an efficiency or defensive standpoint because of the the type of stamina that's exerted in the playoffs. He will need some playmaking help offensively in order for him to sustain the type of defense that's needed to win games -- Mills can't provide that.

All in all, both players will consistently be abused as pinatas defensively in the playoffs, while being inconsistent from game to game with their strengths on offense... its inevitable. We've seen it the last two playoff runs. And it's hard to choose one or the other, both have major flaws and both have skill sets on the offensive end that help Kawhi in different ways.

That's a fair analysis. It is indeed hard to choose the better option. Thats why I have an issue with automatically annointing Enrique as being better. Honestly, part of the reason I want to go with Paddy is bc I'm tired of the same movie with a decrepit Enrique the past couple of years, not necessarily bc Paddy has stood out. It can't get any worse that '15 Enrique vs LAC can it? And maybe there's a chance Paddy gets hot from 3 during the postseason.

[DPG21920]

That's a fair analysis. It is indeed hard to choose the better option. Thats why I have an issue with automatically annointing Enrique as being better. Honestly, part of the reason I want to go with Paddy is bc I'm tired of the same movie with a decrepit Enrique the past couple of years, not necessarily bc Paddy has stood out. It can't get any worse that '15 Enrique vs LAC can it? And maybe there's a chance Paddy gets hot from 3 during the postseason.

Buddy, it can definitely get worse. When Mills is bringing the ball up like he did vs OKC and they are full court pressing him because they don't respect him sh*t gets worse

[dabom]

That 2016 second unit was garbage besides Patty. Hard to get anything done with that lineup. Even fathead was playing. Look at him now.

Porker would have done worse. Patty past 3 postseasons is way better than anything porker has done.