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djohn was lurking in the game thread right until Kawhi took over. Been gone ever since
djohn was lurking in the game thread right until Kawhi took over. Been gone ever since
insane finish from Kawhi.
watched him closely when at Twolves game, he's in his own world, on another level than almost everyone else in the league.
Couple of things if Durant hadnt got hurt ...i stand by my original statement.
Kiwi has hit like 3 gamewinners since I posted that so of course the media narrative is starting to change.
I never said Kiwi wasnt deserving i just didnt see the media voting Durant or LeBron 2nd team ...
But the fact that the mainstream media (ie. voters)is just starting to move KL in to top 3 status for MVP shows that I was not "hating" but accurately reporting the tenor of voters.
Media had no problem voting Kawhi into the 1st team, last season, with a similar record but way less eye catching stats, tbh.
Media narrative was durant had improved his defense and efficiency and was best player on the best team
I don't give a about media narrative, at some point I want to believe that folks that vote for this make their research, look at the facts, look at tapes and vote responsibly. If they do all that then not only Kawhi would get more votes than Durant, he should get more votes than Lebron too.
if spurs beat warriors record, kawhi getting MVP seems obv
Shouldn't need to come to that, tbh.
It will, and even then it's not a guarantee. Harden will win for the same reason Nash did; unwavering media narrative that they won't backtrack on.
Tough to say Kawhi is the clear cut MVP winner, just comparing the 6 leading candidates (Kawhi, Westbrook, Harden, Lebron, Durant and Curry), we see that Kawhi is the middle of the pack for scoring metrics using traditional stats, and he is the worst in assists and second worst in rebounds of the group. That said, he's 1st in steals and 2nd in blocks.
From an advanced stats point of view, he has the 2nd highest Ortg at 121 (Durant sites at 125), and highest in Drtg at 101 (Durant 2nd at 102). Durant and Kawhi stands heads and shoulders above everybody else in terms of Ortg - Drtg (23 and 20 respectively). No surprisingly, Kawhi is the best in STL%, 2nd in BLKs %, best (read lowest) in TOV %. He is 2nd in PER (after Westbrook), #2 in WS @ 11.3 (Harden at 12.4 and Durant at 11.4), 1st in WS/48, only 4th in OBPM and DBPM, 3rd in BPM and tied for fourth in VORP.
In comparison, Lebron and Curry are clearly not in the conversation statistics-wise. Not saying that they are not better players or can't be better players, but judging from what they have done for their teams, Lebron and Curry are not there. Durant has a very strong case, but him jumping to a 73 win team will hurt him. Harden has the stats and his team is winning, but his defense is relatively poor and he makes boneheaded mistakes too much for an MVP. Westbrook has the stats and narratives, but his team is not winning, and he makes just as many mistakes. Kawhi in comparison is steady, puts up the stats, his team is winning, he plays defense, doesn't have any gaping mistakes in his game.
A case could be made for any of the four, if Durant didn't get hurt, he SHOULD have been MVP but wouldn't due to narratives. Between Kawhi, Harden and Westbrook, I will go with Kawhi.
http://bkref.com/tiny/d9dMM
Can you really win MVP with 3 other all-stars on your team? Some still think LeBron is the leagues best player but he plays in the east and should easily have the leagues best record. Westbrick is gonna have to do better than #7. So that leaves the klaw and hardon and after last night just the KLAW!
If you account for the fact that Kawhi is good-to-great on all those stats, has his team on a 60+ wins pace, he plays elite defense, and you add that he dominated EVERY other MVP candidate and elite team out there in head to head matchups, to me there's no doubt he should clearly win MVP.
It's easy to put great looking raw stats when you bump those numbers playing the Nets and Lakers of this World, even playing garbage minutes if it's necessary to get to those averages, tbh.
What people don't get is that while Westbrook and Harden are stat padding in the 4th quarter of a Sixers game, Kawhi is sitting in the bench since the 8 minute mark of the 3rd quarter. Of course his raw numbers aren't going to look as spectacular as the other two.
Oh, but when it's time to play each other and there's no room to be blatantly stat padding, Kawhi always comes up on top, both individually and with the W. He has done that against everybody this season: Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Curry, Lebron, etc, etc, etc.
Very intelligent balanced and nuanced argument. My point before the Durant injury not only was it a media narrative but he had shown marked improvement on both ends of the floor. I probably wouldnt vote for him ...but those that say he wasnt a, legit candidate are blind. Amb is right LeBron until recently has been coasting so not the MVP and i dont see how Curry can be considered when his seadon has been hood but markedly down from even his first mvp season.
Saying LeBron is geater (duh) doesnt mean he deserves MVP or that i am hating on KL ...for this year kiwi has had the better mvp case
You have a dog in this fight ...you may be right ...
But the homer in you is comingvout in your argument...
Tough to quantify, and the Spurs are not that great where Kawhi is just sitting out quarters this year. He puts in the time and his MPG reflects that. I am actually a little concerned that it took such an effort from Kawhi, plus some controversial non-calls to beat the Houston at home.
Also, the BPM and VORP numbers are quite under whelming for an MVP candidate.
Like I said, I would still say Kawhi should be leading the charge, all things considered, but I don't see it as clear cut as you do. Harden and Westbrook has a good case, and Durant, before injury, should have been the leading candidate.
lol I always laugh when somebody calls me a homer.
I've been called a homer many times regarding Duncan, Manu, Kawhi, Messi, etc and I have always ended up being right. Always.
Of course the same folks that call me a homer, ignore the many times I have declared the Spurs had no chance at the championship, when I predicted them to lose playoffs series, when I said players from other teams deserved awards more than a Spurs one, etc.
I'm not a homer, I'm just more knowledgeable and sensible than most people and sometimes I use these traits to say things that don't fit the common perception. When I do it with teams and players of other teams it's OK, but when I do it with a Spurs player some folks call me a homer. That's my very, very humble truth, tbh.
lol I always laugh when somebody calls me a homer.
I've been called a homer many times regarding Duncan, Manu, Kawhi, Messi, etc and I have always ended up being right. Always.
Of course the same folks that call me a homer, ignore the many times I have declared the Spurs had no chance at the championship, when I predicted them to lose playoffs series, when I said players from other teams deserved awards more than a Spurs one, etc.
I'm not a homer, I'm just more knowledgeable and sensible than most people and sometimes I use these traits to say things that don't fit the common perception. When I do it with teams and players of other teams it's OK, but when I do it with a Spurs player some folks call me a homer. That's my very, very humble truth, tbh.... that legit sounds like a copypasta
This, again ...
Amb when not trolling or hating is pound for pound as good a poster that frequents this wasteland...
Maybe based on his 2 way game but from a technical standpoint, skills and fundamentals he's not seeing neither MJ or Kobe imho.
Did i say anything about accomplishments and accolades? No.
As far as skills and fundamentals, Kobe and MJ are at the same level imo with MJ being more athletically gifted than Kobe.
You better pray for Kawhi to not ring with the Spurs as the top dog, 'cause that's all it will take for folks to have him over Kobe in the all-time list. He's already playing better and in a more efficient way than Kobe ever dreamed of, tbh.
Why you even allow discussing Kobe in this thread?
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