shades of 2008 game winner against phoenix game 1
Notice Tony wasn't even on the floor in that play... he was, on paper, our best player... wasn't even out there in the clutch.
Now, it's completely fair to say he was injured... He eventually missed games in later rounds, so I would buy that explanation, but let's stop pretending he didn't suck until game 7...
I'm not a player fan Nono. I'm responding to the heckling few who want to blame Tony for being the main reason why the Mavs/Spurs series went seven games and that simply couldn't be further from the truth. Feel free to continue putting that series on the spin cycle. Nice shot by Manu though.
It's funny you say this... There were a few highly regarded posters saying all season that statistically speaking, Tony was one of the worst pgs in the league.... And his injuries weren't actually injuries but built-in excuses for his poor play and serious signs of regression.
Last edited by Hoops Czar; 04-08-2017 at 01:55 PM.
I said it was 'largely' the reason, not the sole reason (I specifically mentioned Patty sucked too), and I don't think it's any horror to say that. Like I said, if somebody tells me he was injured, I wouldn't necessarily take it as an excuse, seeing he ended up missing games later down the road. But that Tony coming out of a blistering 2013 playoffs couldn't abuse Calderon? He wouldn't even finish games? I mean, I don't think it's unfair at all to say that. Just like it's completely fair to say he did show up in Game 7... (so did Manu and Tim, BTW)
I don't think I was one of those posters, but, in hindsight, I think it's hard to argue that wasn't the beginning of his decline. Not that series particularly, but that whole playoff run. This was a team that, comes the Finals, moved away from him and went into team play to beat the Heat, and didn't need him to close the Blazers and the Thunder in the WCF. Pop telling him he needed to just lead and Tony saying he had to trust his teammates (there's video of that if you need it).
I'm not 'celebrating' that, I'm just being intellectually honest. I much rather have had explosive Tony than that version. Much like I wanted to have dominant Tim and Manu. But we had what we had.
People accuse me of doing revisionist history when they're doing it themselves... You want to credit Tony for a great series that season? That was the Portland series until he went down.
I was very careful not to use the word "solely"."Largely", "Mostly", "Mainly".... let's not not get hung up on semantics. We both know what that implies. Not in one of my posts did I say Tony had a great series. There were many factors that led the series down the path to seven games. What tops my list is the lack of production from Kawhi Leonard (I know, I know, I'm Satan's baby for acknowledging it) and to a greater extent, the inability to slowdown Monta Ellis. We're talking about a five, possibly four game series if Monta Ellis doesn't go off and that's taking into account Tony Parker's production, or lack thereof, depending on your school of thought. Personally, based on expectation from the regular season, he had a realistically good series. He was plagued by the lack of overall consistency that was present in 2013 but, he was fairly decent and had his moments in nearly all the games but, stepped up big, in the clutch of a do or die game 7.
Not going to scrutinize Tony's defense anymore than it has to be because it's never been good, not even in his prime. If opposing players are putting up big numbers against Parker (more so now than in the past), it usually has to do with poor help defense. The defense struggled at times in that series. Speaking about Calderon, not sure what, if any specific plays from that series are lodged in your memory that makes you think he torched Parker. Outside of game three, he didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Also, Tony's defense was that bad at all, victim of some picks, had his hand in Calderon's face on some shots, ya know, all the good things we say about Leonard and Ginobili when they get beat on the defensive end. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the offensive player even if that players name is Matt Barnes, I mean Alexey Shved, I mean Jose Calderon.
Last edited by Hoops Czar; 04-08-2017 at 05:28 PM.
where did i say otherwise? seems like you're going full "rent free" tbh...
Focus, my Spurs friends!
I'm psyched for Bryn Forbes big night. It's a positive thing. Nice way to end his rookie season and we might need a shooter in a situation or two. Doubt he plays in playoffs this year, though.
I have a feeling that Pop sees something in him and I trust that.
comment wasn't directed at you, tbh... just saying, I keep hearing (not from you) that game 7 is apparently all that matters in that series...
I was very careful not to use the word "solely".
Not going to scrutinize Tony's defense anymore than it has to be because it's never been good, not even in his prime. If opposing players are putting up big numbers against Parker (more so now than in the past), it usually has to do with poor help defense. The defense struggled at times in that series. Speaking about Calderon, not sure what, if any specific plays from that series are lodged in your memory that makes you think he torched Parker. Outside of game three, he didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Also, Tony's defense was that bad at all, victim of some picks, had his hand in Calderon's face on some shots, ya know, all the good things we say about Leonard and Ginobili when they get beat on the defensive end. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the offensive player even if that players name is Matt Barnes, I mean Alexey Shved, I mean Jose Calderon.
Kawhi that year didn't even get plays called for him, hard to make that argument. I won't. If you want to draw a parallel, then you can easily look at the Clippers series a year later, where Matt Barnes didn't score 20 a game, but on paper that was a matchup where we were supposed to have an advantage. That we didn't, at least completely, you can blame on the coach, the player, both, but it's not rewriting history to say it happened.
EDIT: About Calderon, he's a slow footed, bad defender, that couldn't shoot. But we couldn't exploit it. Like I said, you can blame it on whoever, but Game 7 wasn't an aberration, it should've been more or less the norm (you can have a bad game or two), considering the matchup, IMO.
The two games the spurs lost by 1 and 2, Manu averaged 9ppg on 22 percent. So no. He didn't carry .
cherry pick 2 games. incredible analysis. especially when in one of those games (loss by 1) he hit the go ahead shot that was spoiled by carter's insane 3. so even in one of the 2 games you decided to cherry pick, he was THIS close to being the hero hitting the game winner.
The guy is a cherry picker.
and in the 4 wins he averaged 19.8 points on 48% shooting, 4.5 assists, 2.8 steals in about 28 min per game
Damn..reminds me of the fact that I havent had sex in two months. Been wanting to Pop a legal 17 year old cherry but his dad is intimidating. Wouldn't surprise me if he breaks a part of my body
The guy is a cherry picker.
post about manu... replies about parker
rent free
do you check under your bed for tony parker before you sleep every night?
I bet he will when he gets married.
Damn..reminds me of the fact that I havent had sex in two months. Been wanting to Pop a legal 17 year old cherry but his dad is intimidating. Wouldn't surprise me if he breaks a part of my body
Damn..reminds me of the fact that I havent had sex in two months. Been wanting to Pop a legal 17 year old cherry but his dad is intimidating. Wouldn't surprise me if he breaks a part of my body
I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" AndI know he was inefficient the rest of the game, b-b-but, um, he hit a big shot!"
The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% in' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."
And about those stats in wins:
Parker 21.5ppg, 47%, 4.5apg.
All-star level stats by any measure.
Think before you Philo.
Why are you comparing Manu's role and Tony's role in that team? Up to that season, it was Parker's team. HOTS. He had a favorable matchup in that series... he didn't even close out those 'close' games...
I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" And
The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% in' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."
And about those stats in wins:
Parker 21.5ppg, 47%, 4.5apg.
All-star level stats by any measure.
Think before you Philo.
Why do you gloss over any of those arguments?
Look, that's not hating on Tony. Yes, much more was expected of him than Manu, and yes Manu and Tiago did deliver much more than anybody else that series.
Just like Tony was a whole lot better than Manu against Portland, in the following series. There's no shame in that, there's no hating on Manu for saying it, tbh...
i'm not speaking for what other people said. i just lol'd at your 2 game sample size to show
I actually started out by posting the series stats, then Manu fans came in here and started referencing individual games and moments. "Well, if Manu didn't do this and that in this one and that other game, Spurs would've lost the series. He carried us!" And
The argument against Parker that Manu fans countered with regarding this series was that if Parker played up to par, the series would've never gone 7. Guess what? Manu played well, well under par in 2 close losses (22% in' shooting). So that exact same argument can be applied to him. But he probably dove for a loose ball or something and all was forgiven because "dat heart."
And about those stats in wins:
Parker 21.5ppg, 47%, 4.5apg.
All-star level stats by any measure.
Think before you Philo.
and even in your stupid cherry picking, its a nice bonus that he hit a would be game winner in one of them
2 game sample size?i'm not speaking for what other people said. i just lol'd at your 2 game sample size to show
You realize losing 2 games in a playoff series is a huge deal, right? Reminder: The Spurs lost 3 games in that series. Manu was far below his standards (moreso than Parker) in two of those games. Yet it was "
Again, think before you Philo.
you keep saying this. it's not a position i've taken. and you can keep saying philo all you want if you think it enhances your argument.2 game sample size?
You realize losing 2 games in a playoff series is a huge deal, right? Reminder: The Spurs lost 3 games in that series. Manu was far below his standards (moreso than Parker) in two of those games. Yet it was "
Again, think before you Philo.
and yeah, a 2 game sample size is re ed. you can take any 7 game series and point to a player's 2 worst games. i mean just look at how ty kawhi was in the '14 finals. or duncan against the pistons
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