POP = GOAT

[quentin_compson]

Game 6 was a masterclass in tactics from Pop. Overall, we saw a lot of adjustments from him in this series, and most of them worked.

[SAGirl]

People has called him the GOAT coach in that very same thread, the reality is that if TP and KL don't get injured, we go with that ship and even maybe go down with that ship. The injuries made him have to actually coach and play Simms, DJ, etc on a closeout game on the road, and they responded. I'm glad they did, it just sucks it took two major injuries to force his hand and get him interested...

Sentence I bolded is the truth
also TobefreakingHonest. (TBFH)
I'll add anderson though you don't care for him. He also helped.

[DMC]

don't be paranoid, no subtles. I rather have Tony available than not, same obviously with Kawhi.

I created that thread after the OKC series last season, IIRC, and I think the point is still valid. The criticism isn't that he's not a good coach, but that he's lost the motivation and that he's too stubborn to change until it's too late in a series. And until further notice, the point stands, tbh. In this particular series, the changes were forced by injury, that's a fact.

He should absolutely get all the credit for coaching the guys that came in and responded, and for giving them confidence throughout the season. But I'm not sold he makes these changes if injuries don't happen.

Furthermore, I had the team with a WCF ceiling, so I have no complains about this team or Pop now if they fall to the Dubs. IMO, this season, mission accomplished.

Pop isn't without his peccadillos, but what other team in the league could have done what the Spurs did to Houston, given the injuries? Maybe Golden State, maybe. Their bench sometimes plays pretty damn good, but not 40pt smashing level good.

[Hoops Czar]

And all it took was for Harden and the Rockets to play like . Well done Pop on your so-called GOAT le because you would have been destroyed for the 3rd year in a row had the Spurs lost this series

[Hoops Czar]

dat subtle tho

you create one or two threads a year to call Pop done, desinterested... Pop just went through Houston without his PG, without his star player for last game and you are still in the backhanded compliment business...smh

at your forced his hand...

You called him done few weeks ago like you do every season since probably 2013... but yet you see Pop yelling at everybody on the team except Kawhi, Parker and Manu ( losing fire) without losing his team. He still gets players trust and commitment, same players that have been yelled at gave Spurs a win by 40 away !

Pop did not lose fire neither love for bb or his team, Pop is the best coach in the NBA for two decades and there is no sign of him retiring anytime soon

[ElNono]

He would have needed to bench and reduce roles further to Manu and Tony.
You know how Pop feels about that.
They wouldn't have come to matter if it wasn't for Tony's injury and Manu looking done pretty much except a couple of playoff games.
TBFH

Well, that's the point.

Pop isn't without his peccadillos, but what other team in the league could have done what the Spurs did to Houston, given the injuries? Maybe Golden State, maybe. Their bench sometimes plays pretty damn good, but not 40pt smashing level good.

Nobody. Pop is the kind of guy that the bigger, more gargantuan challenge it is, the better responds. That's the fire we're talking about. It's what I mentioned in that thread. That 2013 choke got him in tip top shape to coach the next season. I'm sure he didn't just told Simms "you're staring" and nothing else. He sat down, and coached what he wanted from him, same with DJ, Kyle, etc.

Also, I rather take the whole series than just last game, simply because as Pop himself said, that game, realistically, was an aberration. The Spurs are not THAT good, and the Rockets don't suck THAT badly.The Spurs were absolutely ready and were the better team, but it's difficult to argue they're 40 points better on a consistent basis.

[rjv]

Sentence I bolded is the truth
also TobefreakingHonest. (TBFH)
I'll add anderson though you don't care for him. He also helped.

but what people seem to leave out of their pop bashing arguments is the very fact that he creates contingency plans during the season. pop uses the regular season as one would a laboratory. there's a reason his bench is able to perform at a high level when there is a contingency that emerges during the playoffs; pop has prepared his team for those moments. media talking heads blast him for resting the "stars" all the while ignoring the fact that when pop "rests' his players he is also prepping his team. the media should laud him for this because he is enhancing the product rather than diluting it to just a showcase for the stars. that is what makes pop the brilliant coach that he is.

[DMC]

Well, that's the point.



Nobody. Pop is the kind of guy that the bigger, more gargantuan challenge it is, the better responds. That's the fire we're talking about. It's what I mentioned in that thread. That 2013 choke got him in tip top shape to coach the next season. I'm sure he didn't just told Simms "you're staring" and nothing else. He sat down, and coached what he wanted from him, same with DJ, Kyle, etc.

Also, I rather take the whole series than just last game, simply because as Pop himself said, that game, realistically, was an aberration. The Spurs are not THAT good, and the Rockets don't suck THAT badly.The Spurs were absolutely ready and were the better team, but it's difficult to argue they're 40 points better on a consistent basis.

Right, so coaching isn't just about subs utions and lineups. It's more about development (after all, that's what a coach really is, a player developer). I also believe Pop would have gone down with Tony and Kawhi if that was occurring, but Pop is the VERY ONE who pulled the starters in the Memphis series and inserted the bench, and caught about it here as if he gave the game away.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You can start anyone, but you damn well better have a reason. After the fact results aren't good enough reasons to justify the decision, just like saying "well, he hit from half court so it was a good shot to take" isn't sensible.

[Hoops Czar]

People has called him the GOAT coach in that very same thread, the reality is that if TP and KL don't get injured, we go with that ship and even maybe go down with that ship. The injuries made him have to actually coach and play Simms, DJ, etc on a closeout game on the road, and they responded. I'm glad they did, it just sucks it took two major injuries to force his hand and get him interested...

OH, so he's a GOAT coach by default because no coach in their right mind would ever sit their starting PG and super star SF in an important playoff game to play their role players if they didn't half to. Iirc and I think I do, Pop did the same thing against Memphis 1 minute into the third quarter of a playoff game and the players didn't respond.

Moral of your story.... Pop plays role players and they play well, Pop is a GOAT. Pop plays role players and they don't play well, Pop is a chump.

[ElNono]

Right, so coaching isn't just about subs utions and lineups. It's more about development (after all, that's what a coach really is, a player developer). I also believe Pop would have gone down with Tony and Kawhi if that was occurring, but Pop is the VERY ONE who pulled the starters in the Memphis series and inserted the bench, and caught about it here as if he gave the game away.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You can start anyone, but you damn well better have a reason. After the fact results aren't good enough reasons to justify the decision, just like saying "well, he hit from half court so it was a good shot to take" isn't sensible.

Well, that comes with the territory. If you ask a clown like Fabbs who is better between Pau and Dedmon, he'll probably take Dedmon every time.

Despite that Pau was instrumental in changing this series. That's why when people about playing "the best players", that's really relative. My main knock on Pop is that he would rather play a banged up vet than roll with some of the kids, even when it's visible that's not working (more than a game). Like he should get credit for adjusting Lee out of this series progressively, that was something I thought he wouldn't do. And by rolling with some of the kids, I mean not emptying the bench when we're down 20.

Again, you look at some of this stuff in hindsight, and while Simms has been erratic, he should've gotten a little more consistent playing time early in the Memphis series, IMO. Just an example.

[ElNono]

OH, so he's a GOAT coach by default because no coach in their right mind would ever sit their starting PG and super star SF in an important playoff game to play their role players if they didn't half to. Iirc and I think I do, Pop did the same thing against Memphis 1 minute into the third quarter of a playoff game and the players didn't respond.

Moral of your story.... Pop plays role players and they play well, Pop is a GOAT. Pop plays role players and they don't play well, Pop is a chump.

No, actually people called him the GOAT in that thread last year, playing with the starting PG, star SF and even after losing that series. His capability as a coach is not in discussion, his underlying motivation is.

[SAGirl]

but what people seem to leave out of their pop bashing arguments is the very fact that he creates contingency plans during the season. pop uses the regular season as one would a laboratory. there's a reason his bench is able to perform at a high level when there is a contingency that emerges during the playoffs; pop has prepared his team for those moments. media talking heads blast him for resting the "stars" all the while ignoring the fact that when pop "rests' his players he is also prepping his team. the media should laud him for this because he is enhancing the product rather than diluting it to just a showcase for the stars. that is what makes pop the brilliant coach that he is.

I do acknowledge and kind of like how he has played the young guys through the season whenever opportunity arose and given chances to everyone. It's really in the playoffs the past few postseasons (really since 2014), where i had not seen him really make an adjustment. Playing the guys through the regular season if they aren't going to be given opportunities in the postseason seems pointless... specially if he's going home early (which the team did in 2015 and 2016).

I do agree with Nono... Pop's hand was forced. It's to be commended that he got the most out of his young roleplayers and had them ready to play, not daunted by the situation, etc... but he wouldn't have done that unless he had to. I am happy the team advanced and I do give Pop credit for having young guys/out of the rotation guys ready to play and compete.

[gambit1990]

Still hate the fact that it took injuries to force his hand, tbh... guys like Simms, Murray could've had a larger role before, IMO...

Not complaining with the result though...

[Hoops Czar]

No, actually people called him the GOAT in that thread last year, playing with the starting PG, star SF and even after losing that series. His capability as a coach is not in discussion, his underlying motivation is.

Don't embarrass yourself any further. Pop wouldn't be coaching if he wasn't motivated to do so. Duncan was the GOAT and without him, Pop probably doesn't survive 1999. And what happens when you sit the GOAT in the final seconds of game 6 of the NBA finals in 2013, you lose the game and the series. What happens when the GOAT shows notable signs of regression starting in 2015? The Spurs lose in two first round exits (Memphis was a first round bye).

As for the people who called him a GOAT coach last year, why don't you show me that invisible thread. I can't seem to find it.

[ElNono]

Don't embarrass yourself any further. Pop wouldn't be coaching if he wasn't motivated to do so. Duncan was the GOAT and without him, Pop probably doesn't survive 1999. And what happens when you sit the GOAT in the final seconds of game 6 of the NBA finals in 2013, you lose the game and the series. What happens when the GOAT shows notable signs of regression starting in 2015? The Spurs lose in two first round exits (Memphis was a first round bye).

As for the people who called him a GOAT coach last year, why don't you show me that invisible thread. I can't seem to find it.

brah, here's the thread/post:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8581927

And we're in the WCF without GOAT Tim, GOAT Kawhi and TP... so there's no doubt that when the challenge is huge, Pop is up there as far as game-planning. My regret, which I pointed out in this thread, is that it took two major injuries to force his hand and raise the challenge level, get him interested in coaching the young guys and give them free reign.

[Hoops Czar]

brah, here's the thread/post:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8581927

And we're in the WCF without GOAT Tim, GOAT Kawhi and TP... so there's no doubt that when the challenge is huge, Pop is up there as far as game-planning. My regret, which I pointed out in this thread, is that it took two major injuries to force his hand and raise the challenge level, get him interested in coaching the young guys and give them free reign.

There's a ton of hate in that thread. Of course Spurs homers are going to call Pop the greatest coach of all time, that's what they do. That's their shtick. Some of those posters are the same one's that think Kawhi is better than Lebron. The fact of the matter is Pop's had to get creative over the last few years, something he rarely had to do when he had a prime TD, TP and Manu running the offense and solidifying the defense. His in game coaching decisions didn't matter as much. Pop's in game creativity has mostly sucked except for the few times where players played over their heads and the team won. Then, he was a genius. The Spurs lost to OKC last year because they failed time and time again at adjusting to OKC's in game adjustments. The series was over when Donovan made one simple adjustment by putting Adams on LMA. Then, the GOAT ran his rotations like a coach with his head chopped off in an elimination game because he didn't have answers for anything OKC was doing. You call this lack of motivation and not caring. I call this getting p'wned.

Pop's game planning late in games has been very poor over the years until just recently when he decided to put the ball in Kawhi's hands. I also find it quite odd that you call him a GOAT coach in one breathe and in another you say "it took two major injuries to force his hand and raise the challenge level, get him interested in coaching the young guys and give them free reign." In other words, he had no choice but to play his young guys and he literally backed into something that worked. That doesn't make you a GOAT coach.

For the record, I think Pop is a very good coach but I can't think of a series where he's actually won that his team wasn't suppose to. I can think of plenty where he lost when his team was suppose to win. If he wants to be GOAT coach, he needs to beat a team in a series where the Spurs are expected to lose. He'll be a GOAT coach if he beats GS otherwise, he's going to have to settle for very good.

[ElNono]

There's a ton of hate in that thread. Of course Spurs homers are going to call Pop the greatest coach of all time, that's what they do. That's their shtick. Some of those posters are the same one's that think Kawhi is better than Lebron. The fact of the matter is Pop's had to get creative over the last few years, something he rarely had to do when he had a prime TD, TP and Manu running the offense and solidifying the defense. His in game coaching decisions didn't matter as much. Pop's in game creativity has mostly sucked except for the few times where players played over their heads and the team won. Then, he was a genius. The Spurs lost to OKC last year because they failed time and time again at adjusting to OKC's in game adjustments. The series was over when Donovan made one simple adjustment by putting Adams on LMA. Then, the GOAT ran his rotations like a coach with his head chopped off in an elimination game because he didn't have answers for anything OKC was doing. You call this lack of motivation and not caring. I call this getting p'wned.

Pop's game planning late in games has been very poor over the years until just recently when he decided to put the ball in Kawhi's hands. I also find it quite odd that you call him a GOAT coach in one breathe and in another you say "it took two major injuries to force his hand and raise the challenge level, get him interested in coaching the young guys and give them free reign." In other words, he had no choice but to play his young guys and he literally backed into something that worked. That doesn't make you a GOAT coach.

For the record, I think Pop is a very good coach but I can't think of a series where he's actually won that his team wasn't suppose to. I can think of plenty where he lost when his team was suppose to win. If he wants to be GOAT coach, he needs to beat a team in a series where the Spurs are expected to lose. He'll be a GOAT coach if he beats GS otherwise, he's going to have to settle for very good.

Even Phil Jackson, who IMO is up there with Pop, lost to the D'Antoni Suns in the 1st round with Kobe, Odom, etc. That doesn't make him a bad coach, tbh, even if it was a series "that he was meant to win", whatever that means.

I think Pop's stubbornness has cost the Spurs some series, and as DMC said, nobody is immune from screwing up here or there. In this league, though, it's hard to argue he's one of the best, if not the best in the business. Especially among active coaches.

[313]

People has called him the GOAT coach in that very same thread, the reality is that if TP and KL don't get injured, we go with that ship and even maybe go down with that ship. The injuries made him have to actually coach and play Simms, DJ, etc on a closeout game on the road, and they responded. I'm glad they did, it just sucks it took two major injuries to force his hand and get him interested...

this.

Pop is still the same stubborn old bas drunk we know him to be.

[313]

Pop isn't without his peccadillos, but what other team in the league could have done what the Spurs did to Houston, given the injuries? Maybe Golden State, maybe. Their bench sometimes plays pretty damn good, but not 40pt smashing level good.

I'd lean towards giving the players more credit than pop. They showed up and played great. He looks like a genius because they won, but he was still playing garbage ass David Lee.

A couple years ago the Rockets made a huge comeback because McHale benched Harden and trusted his bench guys to win the game, yet didn't get any credit for it.

Pop was forced to trust his bench guys, but let's not forget Pop wouldn't bench parker in 2015 or 2016, or Manu in 2013.

This series hasn't done much for Pop's legacy, positive or negative.

[Hoops Czar]

Even Phil Jackson, who IMO is up there with Pop, lost to the D'Antoni Suns in the 1st round with Kobe, Odom, etc. That doesn't make him a bad coach, tbh, even if it was a series "that he was meant to win", whatever that means.

I think Pop's stubbornness has cost the Spurs some series, and as DMC said, nobody is immune from screwing up here or there. In this league, though, it's hard to argue he's one of the best, if not the best in the business. Especially among active coaches.

Phil's overrated as and that Lakers team was dreadful. My counter argument would be if the Spurs hired Carlisle to coach in 1999 to present instead of Pop, the Spurs probably have a few more les to talk about. But since this forum views everything in black and white, it's easy to gloss over the fact that just because coach A has more championships than coach B, it doesn't make him better. This is a players league and if you have superior talent, more often than not, you're going to win. Tyron Lue isn't a great coach by any stretch (maybe a little below average) but he has Lebron James and a ring. You could literally replace Steve Kerr with a washing machine and the Warriors would still be heavy favorites to win the NBA championship.

[kjhip1]

If Pop can get this team to win this series against golden state, his legendary status gets to a point where he untouchable. He has revolutionized the game with his changes to the game as well as how he deals with athletes. But to take on a team that is heavily favored and we are not eve given a chance....if somehow we pull this out I will never say a bad thing about him again

[ElNono]

Phil's overrated as and that Lakers team was dreadful. My counter argument would be if the Spurs hired Carlisle to coach in 1999 to present instead of Pop, the Spurs probably have a few more les to talk about. But since this forum views everything in black and white, it's easy to gloss over the fact that just because coach A has more championships than coach B, it doesn't make him better. This is a players league and if you have superior talent, more often than not, you're going to win. Tyron Lue isn't a great coach by any stretch (maybe a little below average) but he has Lebron James and a ring. You could literally replace Steve Kerr with a washing machine and the Warriors would still be heavy favorites to win the NBA championship.

But the Dubs did have a gimmicky coach before Kerr, with pretty much the same top talent, and never had this kind of success. So, you know, it's ok to on Kerr now that he put together the final product, but he should get recognized for punching the right buttons, even after that 3-1 choke.

[illusioNtEk]

Never doubt him again ever.

[ErnestLynch]

This we know..


He's proven it yet again in spades. Pop gets role players to play like superstars in big games. I don't know how he's the only guy in the league who can do that on a fairly consistent basis. Now he he could just play the young guys more...

Ahh, he's had his bad moments. I think even he would dispute that claim. Understand, the Spurs bread and butter to a large degree is 'role players'. A meaningless term invented by some fool at ESPN. Spurs have always valued depth. Largely out of necessity and being the victims of their own success.

[ErnestLynch]

Never doubt him again ever.

Until the next time you go, WHAT THE IS POP DOING !!??!!??

Heard it before. We all have, many times. Here and on ESPN etc. It could be argued, and is, that pop has cost the Spurs a ring...or two here and there. Shall we dance ? Don't get me wrong but RC is the genius behind this operation. THAT dude has a knack for finding talent like nobodies bidness.

Pop, love him, great coach. But the Spurs were a 5-peat team that just...blew it. And we're not talking that 1st Miami series. Pop has had his ups...but that doesn't degrade what he's done it just keeps him out of 'best ever'. Elite, yes. Top...4 all time. The no repeat, with what he had at the time, and the opposition...and not repeat?

Best ever ain't in that conversation. Again, love him but I admit...I also have a bit of not loving him. If I saw him in an elevator I'd probably say, 'WHAT THE , DUDE...' Then take a selfie with him, give him a hug....all against his will...and call it a day.