Welcome to SA, CP3

[hooperflash]

Let's just sign Tony Romo, tbh.

[coachmac87]

The Clippers were a dysfunctional hot mess before the season. There were also reports mid season that said CP3 has a secret agreement with the Clippers on a 5 year extension. The Spurs have made two major splashes via trades/free agency over the last 8 years and they've both been epic disasters. If the Spurs didn't have Parker on the roster or they didn't draft Murray, it would make more sense.

Ok so you don't want CP3...but that doesn't mean you can discredit reports because it doesn't make sense for YOU.


But what's been reported in October and even now IS REAL but doesn't guarantee anything. I believe Woj over anyone and he said that the Spurs were going to pursue if the Clippers had another fall out(which they did) and if so Paul would be intrigued. Everything that's needed to happen has happened including the mysterious injury to Parker...Let's also not bring up the past free agency signings because that's irrelevant and only goes with YOUR agenda

I'm sure you also assumed KD was staying in OKC...

[baseline bum]

Well, that's also including the qualifying offer for Simmons. If they renounce Simmons, they can get to 34.977

Then the roster would be

Paul-Murray
Green
Kawhi
LMA
Bertans

+ Room exception + minimum guys. (Hanga?,. Bringing back Lee, bringing back Forbes on a full guarantee, Splitter? Etc)

I wouldn't go further than the 32.982 number which gives the Spurs matching rights on Simmons plus a first rounder plus Milutinov. Keep Anderson and you are at 31.646

Paul - Murray
Green - Simmons
Kawhi - Anderson
LMA - Bertans
Milutinov. -. 2017 1st rounder?

Plus room exception and minimums

For that same 31.646 you could probably get Hill/Holiday and a big who is near the MLE, maybe even keep Dedmon.

Are you sure the Spurs have matching rights on Simmons? Isn't Simmons Early Bird, having played here two years? According to Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, that would give the Spurs the ability to only offer up to 104.5% of the previous league average salary without using capspace (or 175% of Simmons' previous year's salary, but that would be much lower than 104.5% of the league average). That would be about $4.8 million, which seems like less than Simmons could pull on the market.

[objective]

If Dedmon is out of their price range, but they could still snag Baynes at say a starting salary of 8, they could offer a starting salary of 24.462 to Hill/Holiday

So including the room for Hanga, Lee back on another 1+1 guarantee, and Forbes on a 1+1 guarantee, it'd be

Hill/Holiday - Murray - Forbes
Green - Simmons - Hanga
Kawhi - Anderson - ?
LMA - Bertans - Lee
Baynes - Milutinov - 2017 first?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Are you sure the Spurs have matching rights on Simmons? Isn't Simmons Early Bird, having played here two years? According to Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, that would give the Spurs the ability to only offer up to 104.5% of the previous league average salary without using capspace (or 175% of Simmons' previous year's salary, but that would be much lower than 104.5% of the league average). That would be about $4.8 million, which seems like less than Simmons could pull on the market.

Can't remember where I read it but I saw a note that we could match up to $7.7 million to Simmons.

[objective]

Are you sure the Spurs have matching rights on Simmons? Isn't Simmons Early Bird, having played here two years? According to Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, that would give the Spurs the ability to only offer up to 104.5% of the previous league average salary without using capspace (or 175% of Simmons' previous year's salary, but that would be much lower than 104.5% of the league average). That would be about $4.8 million, which seems like less than Simmons could pull on the market.

He'd be an Arenas free agent and his Qualifying Offer with right to match is only 1.672. it would be true that they couldn't give him a bigger offer themselves in this scenario, but they could still match provided they got all their moves done first, and then when he signed an offer sheet with another team they would have that 2 day window.

They might not even want to match​ due to eventual tax implications, but they could.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

[baseline bum]

Can't remember where I read it but I saw a note that we could match up to $7.7 million to Simmons.

That would be nice. It would probably be enough to sign him.

[raybies]

If Dedmon is out of their price range, but they could still snag Baynes at say a starting salary of 8, they could offer a starting salary of 24.462 to Hill/Holiday

So including the room for Hanga, Lee back on another 1+1 guarantee, and Forbes on a 1+1 guarantee, it'd be

Hill/Holiday - Murray - Forbes
Green - Simmons - Hanga
Kawhi - Anderson - ?
LMA - Bertans - Lee
Baynes - Milutinov - 2017 first?

sounds intriguing actually but the Spurs aren't gonna stretch Parker for a player like Hill or Holiday imo

[NASpurs]

Are you sure the Spurs have matching rights on Simmons? Isn't Simmons Early Bird, having played here two years? According to Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, that would give the Spurs the ability to only offer up to 104.5% of the previous league average salary without using capspace (or 175% of Simmons' previous year's salary, but that would be much lower than 104.5% of the league average). That would be about $4.8 million, which seems like less than Simmons could pull on the market.

http://thesportsdaily.com/project-sp...offseason-q-a/

How might Simmons being a restricted free agent affect the Spurs’ cap situation?

The Spurs have until June 30 to tender a $1.2 million qualifying offer to Simmons to make him a restricted free agent heading into free agency. Now, FOR EXAMPLE ONLY, let’s say the New York Knicks, who might have $26.9 million in cap space, sign him to an offer sheet for three years, for $39 million, meaning Simmons would earn about $13 million annually. Because Simmons is under the ‘Arenas Provision,’ as Bobby Marks of the Vertical noted, the Spurs can match that Knicks offer, BUT, in Year 1, San Antonio can only sign Simmons for either $7.7 million, or use their Mid-Level Exception of $8.4 million, which would mean the rest of that $31 million of Simmons’ deal would have to be back loaded in years 2 and 3.

Here’s where it gets tricky. Even though Simmons might sign that deal on the opening day of free agency July 1, the clock for the Spurs to match begins ticking on July 6, when the moratorium period ends. San Antonio then has two days to decide if they’ll match the offer or allow Simmons to sign elsewhere. While San Antonio is deciding for 48 hours whether or not to match, Simmons’ cap hold will still stay at $1.2 million. But, if they decide to match by July 8, Simmons’ cap hold jumps either to $7.7 million or $8.4 million through the use of the MLE, which is basically adding an additional $6 million to the Spurs’ cap sheet by July 8.

So, for the Spurs, Simmons signing an offer sheet quickly could put them in a bind going forward with their cap space and with some of the other moves they may want to make in free agency.

[coachmac87]

Can't remember where I read it but I saw a note that we could match up to $7.7 million to Simmons.

Spurs can match up to MLE..

[SAGirl]

Well, that's also including the qualifying offer for Simmons. If they renounce Simmons, they can get to 34.977

Then the roster would be

Paul-Murray
Green
Kawhi
LMA
Bertans

+ Room exception + minimum guys. (Hanga?,. Bringing back Lee, bringing back Forbes on a full guarantee, Splitter? Etc)

I wouldn't go further than the 32.982 number which gives the Spurs matching rights on Simmons plus a first rounder plus Milutinov. Keep Anderson and you are at 31.646

Paul - Murray
Green - Simmons
Kawhi - Anderson
LMA - Bertans
Milutinov. -. 2017 1st rounder?

Plus room exception and minimums

For that same 31.646 you could probably get Hill/Holiday and a big who is near the MLE, maybe even keep Dedmon.

Thanks for doing this.
It is very helpful when there are so many guys with misinformation and truly all the cap rules are confusing to me.

[objective]

I do round up to the next thousand, so my numbers might be slightly, off.

If anyone else wants to check my math, please do and let us know what I got wrong, better to be sure

Spurs Salaries:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/sa...s-team-salary/

Roster charge calculations:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...2017-offseason

[Hoops Czar]

Ok so you don't want CP3...but that doesn't mean you can discredit reports because it doesn't make sense for YOU.


But what's been reported in October and even now IS REAL but doesn't guarantee anything. I believe Woj over anyone and he said that the Spurs were going to pursue if the Clippers had another fall out(which they did) and if so Paul would be intrigued. Everything that's needed to happen has happened including the mysterious injury to Parker...Let's also not bring up the past free agency signings because that's irrelevant and only goes with YOUR agenda

I'm sure you also assumed KD was staying in OKC...

What reports? All I'm hearing is conjecture and talking points. I'm sure there will be a slew of teams that will pursue CP3 so thinking the Spurs might be one of them isn't out of the box thinking. How is this situation any different than the Spurs pursuing Kevin Durant?

Actually my stance on KD is as follows....

Yeah, that's as much a reality as is Leonard coming off the bench to accommodate Durant. Gulp living in a dream world.. If he goes anywhere at all which is highly unlikely, he'd go to GS before SA 10/10 times.

Maybe but, there's a 99.999% he stays in OKC. Do you realize the roster adjustments the Spurs would have to make to just to sign him even if he did consider leaving?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...a+kevin+durant

We seem to have one of these threads every year. That thread was slightly funnier than this one, but it gives you the perspective from a Spurstalker's point of view regardless of how ridiculous the reasoning was. A big fish like CP3 isn't up rooting to a small pond like San Antonio for a lot less money.

[raybies]

http://thesportsdaily.com/project-sp...offseason-q-a/

How might Simmons being a restricted free agent affect the Spurs’ cap situation?

The Spurs have until June 30 to tender a $1.2 million qualifying offer to Simmons to make him a restricted free agent heading into free agency. Now, FOR EXAMPLE ONLY, let’s say the New York Knicks, who might have $26.9 million in cap space, sign him to an offer sheet for three years, for $39 million, meaning Simmons would earn about $13 million annually. Because Simmons is under the ‘Arenas Provision,’ as Bobby Marks of the Vertical noted, the Spurs can match that Knicks offer, BUT, in Year 1, San Antonio can only sign Simmons for either $7.7 million, or use their Mid-Level Exception of $8.4 million, which would mean the rest of that $31 million of Simmons’ deal would have to be back loaded in years 2 and 3.

Here’s where it gets tricky. Even though Simmons might sign that deal on the opening day of free agency July 1, the clock for the Spurs to match begins ticking on July 6, when the moratorium period ends. San Antonio then has two days to decide if they’ll match the offer or allow Simmons to sign elsewhere. While San Antonio is deciding for 48 hours whether or not to match, Simmons’ cap hold will still stay at $1.2 million. But, if they decide to match by July 8, Simmons’ cap hold jumps either to $7.7 million or $8.4 million through the use of the MLE, which is basically adding an additional $6 million to the Spurs’ cap sheet by July 8.

So, for the Spurs, Simmons signing an offer sheet quickly could put them in a bind going forward with their cap space and with some of the other moves they may want to make in free agency.

Dang. this is very valuable. He likely gone imo. We definitely can't use the MLE on him so we would like backload it. That's just very risky though imo. Cause if he remains inconsistent that's alot of doe tied up. Though most I'd backload would be 13-14 mill so that'd be a deal of like 7.5 mill first year 13 years 2 and 3. Like 33 mill. That would be reasonable actually. I mean Manu played for 14 mill this year and Danny makes 10 mill and Simmons does more. I'm gonna stick to this number, but we just can't use the MLE on him.

[baseline bum]

He'd be an Arenas free agent and his Qualifying Offer with right to match is only 1.672. it would be true that they couldn't give him a bigger offer themselves in this scenario, but they could still match provided they got all their moves done first, and then when he signed an offer sheet with another team they would have that 2 day window.

They might not even want to match​ due to eventual tax implications, but they could.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

http://thesportsdaily.com/project-sp...offseason-q-a/

How might Simmons being a restricted free agent affect the Spurs’ cap situation?

The Spurs have until June 30 to tender a $1.2 million qualifying offer to Simmons to make him a restricted free agent heading into free agency. Now, FOR EXAMPLE ONLY, let’s say the New York Knicks, who might have $26.9 million in cap space, sign him to an offer sheet for three years, for $39 million, meaning Simmons would earn about $13 million annually. Because Simmons is under the ‘Arenas Provision,’ as Bobby Marks of the Vertical noted, the Spurs can match that Knicks offer, BUT, in Year 1, San Antonio can only sign Simmons for either $7.7 million, or use their Mid-Level Exception of $8.4 million, which would mean the rest of that $31 million of Simmons’ deal would have to be back loaded in years 2 and 3.

Here’s where it gets tricky. Even though Simmons might sign that deal on the opening day of free agency July 1, the clock for the Spurs to match begins ticking on July 6, when the moratorium period ends. San Antonio then has two days to decide if they’ll match the offer or allow Simmons to sign elsewhere. While San Antonio is deciding for 48 hours whether or not to match, Simmons’ cap hold will still stay at $1.2 million. But, if they decide to match by July 8, Simmons’ cap hold jumps either to $7.7 million or $8.4 million through the use of the MLE, which is basically adding an additional $6 million to the Spurs’ cap sheet by July 8.

So, for the Spurs, Simmons signing an offer sheet quickly could put them in a bind going forward with their cap space and with some of the other moves they may want to make in free agency.

Wow I didn't realize the MLE is going up so much for next season.

[spursistan]

Yes, by essentially eliminating the compe ion. Spurs would still get a mortal beat down by the Warriors. Rather have Westbrook.

Nah, they would still be an underdog, and depending on how much they preserve of their depth, they will have a shot with a break or two going their way..

Also give me Paul's 32yo-36yo window over Westbrook's 30yo-34yo. He is a far more cerebral player, and much better off-ball threat despite the ball-pounding reputation.

The Clippers looked their best when he was a second option in 2015 as Blake was tearing it up during that run-- a pecking order that's already established in SA with Leonard as the top dog..

[coachmac87]

What reports? All I'm hearing is conjecture and talking points. I'm sure there will be a slew of teams that will pursue CP3 so thinking the Spurs might be one of them isn't out of the box thinking. How is this situation any different than the Spurs pursuing Kevin Durant?

Actually my stance on KD is as follows....







http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...a+kevin+durant

We seem to have one of these threads every year. That thread was slightly funnier than this one, but it gives you the perspective from a Spurstalker's point of view regardless of how ridiculous the reasoning was. A big fish like CP3 isn't up rooting to a small pond like San Antonio for a lot less money.

I'm not sitting here telling you CP3 is GOING to come here. All I've said is that the Spurs were going to go after him and he's their priority. You can google all the reports including what Woj said on his podcast in October..he also mentioned The Knicks were gonna purse too lol.

There's never been this much smoke before the season has ended about a potential free agent tbh. Spurs-CP3 rumors have been going on for over a year now by credible sources...I don't think that's happened before with the Spurs...not even Aldridge

[coachmac87]

Nah, they would still be an underdog, and depending on how much they preserve of their depth, they will have a shot with a break or two going their way..

Also give me Paul's 32yo-36yo window over Westbrook's 30yo-34yo. He is a far more cerebral player, and much better off-ball threat despite the ball-pounding reputation.

The Clippers looked their best when he was a second option in 2015 as Blake was tearing it up during that run-- a pecking order that's already established in SA with Leonard as the top dog..

Good post. I tend to the the "ball pounding" label is overblown...Paul has never played with guards or wings who can really create off the dribble..so yeah he's gonna have the ball a lot. But let's also be real he's arguably one of the best PNR point guards this league has seen so there's reason for it.

[TD 21]

If Dedmon is out of their price range, but they could still snag Baynes at say a starting salary of 8, they could offer a starting salary of 24.462 to Hill/Holiday

So including the room for Hanga, Lee back on another 1+1 guarantee, and Forbes on a 1+1 guarantee, it'd be

Hill/Holiday - Murray - Forbes
Green - Simmons - Hanga
Kawhi - Anderson - ?
LMA - Bertans - Lee
Baynes - Milutinov - 2017 first?

I doubt Spurs go that high for Hill. If it happens, they'll probably be a partially guaranteed 4th year, so that they can lessen the cap hit in the first 3.

They're not salary dumping or stretching Parker, which is partially why I believe Hill is the ceiling because he'd only require Gasol to be salary dumped, as far as significant moves go.

I hope Suns draft Fox at 4, shop Bledsoe and Jazz, who are about to have financial issues, decide it would make more sense to have him for 3/43.5M remaining on his contract, than pay Hill, who's 3 years older and not quite as good, significantly more. Suns would have to take either Favors or Burks contract, with Hood probably being the centerpiece. Jazz also have 24, 30 and Thunder's '18 lottery protected 1st.

I'm more concerned with point guard upgrade and possibly retaining Simmons (I doubt it) or some other half decent wing for BAE, than center. Just go cheap and have a by committee approach, of something like Reed for part of MLE, Splitter for minimum and either Milutinov or 29th pick. The idea would be to play small more.

[Phenomanul]

Good post. I tend to the the "ball pounding" label is overblown...Paul has never played with guards or wings who can really create off the dribble..so yeah he's gonna have the ball a lot. But let's also be real he's arguably one of the best PNR point guards this league has seen so there's reason for it.

The cerebral play is also evident in his career PER (which is top-3 all-time)... In Paul's case, loss of agility, or speed, or athleticism isn't as much of a deficit as would be for other players (like say Parker) because his game vision is his one defining attribute (and similar to Tim and Manu) that vision doesn't go away with age.

His fragility may be a concern. But Pop could use the season to both develop Murray's game AND rest Paul.

Guys like Green, Bertans and Lee (should he decide to opt in) would be instantly more lethal when paired with Paul.

Heck, Kawhi would be a deadlier player too if he were allowed to score off-the-ball as well.

[SpursforSix]

That's how they figure it for out of state players (like when the Spurs visit). As a California native with his primary residence there, he gets to pay it on his full salary. I do believe he gets a reduction for taxes paid for other games in other states with a local income tax, but that's trivial compared to his entire salary (and keep in mind, any endorsement deals he's getting are also getting taxed at that 13.3% rate there too).

This is right I think. But that being said, how much more endorsement money does he get being in LA?

[objective]

FYI for anyone interested in cap numbers and minutae .... Larry Coon's site is outdated. His numbers are off as of last time i looked a couple of days ago for stuff like rookie scale and mle for example

[BatManu20]

[BillMc]

ST is like one of those chicks who prints out and frames the selfie you took with her after one date.

ST will be boiling Paul's pet rabbit by end of summer.

[TXstbobcat]

ST is like one of those chicks who prints out and frames the selfie you took with her after one date.

ST will be boiling Paul's pet rabbit by end of summer.

Spurstalk fatal attraction. "I will not be ignored!!!"