"If Ginobili was on any other team as the main guy, he would average 25 ppg" - Charles Barkley 2005 paraphrased. I'm thinking more along the lines of about a 22 ppg career scorer. We can't prove this of course, but damn, go back and watch the videos of prime Ginobili, circa 2005. He was soooo damn good. His athleticism was also very underrated when he was young. He came in the league too late, and simply sacrificed stats for Pop's system, and bigger picture thinking.
Good to see him & Pop graveled in Miami & State. Always walkin' around with your noses stuck in the air. Always dishin' it. Now you got a abundant taste of it. You suffered as others have suffered. You ain't immune. You ain't nothin' special. Sure, it's never enough and I want to see you stay down in that mud & puke.
Love always,
- Dale
Shut up you front running chicken .
Why u bring up Miami? They went back there the folloring year and beheaded Lebron.
Yes, that was your 2nd 1st 5th.
James Harden came off the bench, and he would still be coming off the bench if the Thunder's owner wasn't so cheap, and he's an MVP caliber player.
If folks (even Spurs fans) don't realize Manu could have been a franchise player, after seeing his diluted copycat version pull multiple MVP seasons, then I don't know what else to say. I guess basketball understanding isn't for anyone, tbh.
What's with all the goalpost moving in this ing place? Who said anything about Harden?
You'd love to shift the focus from your countryman to James Harden but Harden came off the bench for only a couple years or so, and won a 6th man in the process. Manu has come off the bench most of his NBA career. If Manu had the offers Harden had he probably would have left.
Yes, everyone who doesn't agree that your countryman could not head a serious franchise must be basketball ignorant. Great rationale.
I think it's a misconception that Ginobili became a 6th man only to help the team. He became a 6th man partly because his body couldn't withstand playing 82 games with starters minutes. Had Ginobili been treated like a franchise player, his body would have broken down in a couple years.
Smh. "Spurs fan" not realizing how good his players are.
How is bringing Harden "goalpost moving", when talking about franchise players that used to come off the bench?
Prime Ginobili is better than Harden. The beard is basically Manu minus the compe ive edge, the intangibles, clutchness and defense.
And you can bet your sweet ass that if prime Manu was available right now, analytics freak Morey would have thrown max money to the ultimate efficient layup or three player.
I love Manu as much as the next guy but ignoring the durability concerns doesn't make them go away. Is talented enough to be a franchise player? Absolutely. Could he handle the workload demanded of one? Highly unlikely.
I wasn't talking about franchise players who come off the bench. I was talking about Manu Ginobili. The OP doesn't ask if a bench player can ever be a franchise player.How is bringing Harden "goalpost moving", when talking about franchise players that used to come off the bench?
Prime Ginobili is better than Harden. The beard is basically Manu minus the compe ive edge, the intangibles, clutchness and defense.
Which team had a worse franchise player than Manu would have been, in Manu's prime?
You saw how Morey's team did against a team of scrubs, at home in a close out game in the 2nd round of the playoffs. You shouldn't go that route.
Damn, I don't know what to say. Lol, I had a pretty good paragraph on Manu written but I hit the back button, lol. I don't give a man, Manu was the shiiit. It's no coincidence the Spurs won all these chips with him as well as his country winning Gold in 04.
Love Manu, but all the Manu love doesn't mean he could have been a franchise guy on a decent team. Could Rip Hamilton have been one?
AndOP, Iverson won a league MVP and basically drug Eric Snow's ass to the Finals. Nash won b2b MVPs in years where legit talent was breathing down his neck.
Manu was never Nash/Iverson level. He was more the level of Jordan Crawford or Jason Terry. In Manu's prime years he was ranked like 47th in the league or something like that.
I was thinking of this today. Manu could've been a 28 and 9 guy and been in contention for MVPs on another team. And frankly, he was initially a great "two way player." His defensive prowess/tenacity when he came into the league was a sight to behold. I just loved watching him play for that reason alone.
47th in whatLove Manu, but all the Manu love doesn't mean he could have been a franchise guy on a decent team. Could Rip Hamilton have been one?
And
Manu was never Nash/Iverson level. He was more the level of Jordan Crawford or Jason Terry. In Manu's prime years he was ranked like 47th in the league or something like that.
well lets take 2007-2008 where he was:
33rd in points per game
29th in assists per game
13th in steals per game
12th in win shares
11th in TS%
7th in PER
6th in win shares/48 min
3rd in BPM
5th in VORP
you would say he was somewhere close to 47th best player in the league?
The numbers from 2005-2008 suggest Manu had a 3-5 year stretch where he was at minimum a ~top-10 player in the league. MVP candidate on a different team? Who knows. With more minutes he may have put up the numbers to do so, or his body might have broken down.
Not sure there's any evidence for this "47th best player" talk though.
Irrelevant.
How many 60 point games did he have? 50 point games? Did he even have a single, measly 40 point game that year?
You can argue that he would've been retired for a few years by now if he had had that type of responsibility but Manu could've absolutely been a franchise player for 5-8 years. In the Summer of '04 he was leading Mexico to gold in the Olympics and in Spring of '10 he arguably looked like a Top 5 player with Parker injured/Timmy looking done. He was still the best player on the '11 team too.
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