Spurs: Robert Horry: "Hakeem was 20 times better than Tim Duncan"

[Thread]

If Dream had Pop for his whole career, he'd have at least 6 rangs if Jim won 5 tbh. He was a bad bad man.

He was cursed with a severe Bell curve. He fell off the edge and he still ain't landed.

[LkrFan]

He was cursed with a severe Bell curve. He fell off the edge and he still ain't landed.

I disagree Cubby. From 1984-1999 (15 years), here's his averages: 22.1ppg, 11.7rpg and 3.2bpg (compare that to his career averaged of 21.8ppg, 11.1rpg and 3.2bpg over 17 years). He was pretty consistent. His ppg fell off a cliff around 1998 season, but he was still a good defender and rebounder throughout his career.

He gave you a double double and guarded the yard too. I believe if he put up ^ numbers for 15 years and Pop on the sideline, he'd have more rangs than Jim. Jim had better teams and a better coach. That's it to me.

LINK: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...olajuha01.html

[DAF86]

Oh, now Horry's words matter? Where was this when he said Duncan > Kobe?

[whitemamba]

Hakeem would on Prime duncan, no conest.

[TD 21]

At the "system" and "culture" . . . It's funny, you never heard a peep about these things until Duncan arrived.
The "system" for the first half of Duncan's career, was four-down, aka Duncan post-ups on the left block . . . I guess it took a genius to conjure that up.
Relying on antiquated counting stats and supplying no context.
Ignoring 5 rings, with only '97-'01 Robinson as another superstar or near one and beating all other prominent teams of era.
Ignoring superior longevity.

[lefty]

Olajuwon had a pretty good cast around him. Otis Thorpe was a workhorse and a damn good PF, not a star but in the Horace Grant mode. Sam Cassell came on the scene and made an immediate impact. Mario Elie was another good player but when I think of him I always see Danny Ainge blasting him in the face with the basketball And Drexler wasn't all that washed up in '95. He could still ball with the best of'em.

Clyde was actually a beast during the 95 playoffs

[ambchang]

Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq are a tier above Timothy

So shaq is a tie above Duncan, Kobe > Duncan, Jackson > pop and Robinson in his prime got killed by hakeem who is on the same level as shaq who is a tier above Duncan and yet they are 3-2 head to head in the playoffs.

Is it Avery Johnson or Stephen Jackson who is that first ballot Jordan level hall of famer?

[djohn2oo8]

Olajuwon had a pretty good cast around him. Otis Thorpe was a workhorse and a damn good PF, not a star but in the Horace Grant mode. Sam Cassell came on the scene and made an immediate impact. Mario Elie was another good player but when I think of him I always see Danny Ainge blasting him in the face with the basketball And Drexler wasn't all that washed up in '95. He could still ball with the best of'em.

Duncan had a prime Ginobli. Which some people around here said he could have been a franchise player. Oh and a prime Parker.

[djohn2oo8]

Ellie said Hakeem was better too.

[lefty]

Ellie said Hakeem was better too.

I agree tbh

[Mitch]

So shaq is a tie above Duncan, Kobe > Duncan, Jackson > pop and Robinson in his prime got killed by hakeem who is on the same level as shaq who is a tier above Duncan and yet they are 3-2 head to head in the playoffs.

Is it Avery Johnson or Stephen Jackson who is that first ballot Jordan level hall of famer?

Shaq > Duncan, simple as that Ambzedong

[hitmanyr2k]

Clyde was actually a beast during the 95 playoffs

He gave Jordan the business during one of the Bulls/Rockets games in 95-96 season too.

[benefactor]

Dream's peak was short, but only a homer would say Duncan>Dream at their best. I watched both of them live...and Dream at his best was the best big man to ever play.

[daslicer]

Hakeem's peak was one of the greatest peaks I have ever seen but it was only for 2 years. As a player he massively underachieved. He had a stretch from 87-92 where he couldn't get out of the first round along with missing the playoffs one year. He didn't have the patience or IQ Duncan had to win more with less talent until the tail end of his prime which coincided with his 2 championships. He's massively overrated due to his 93-95 run.

[ambchang]

Shaq > Duncan, simple as that Ambzedong

So is it Avery Johnson or Stephen Jackson?

[dbreiden83080]

Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq are a tier above Timothy

Shaq needed arguably a top-five player in history to win championships. You're ing kidding me right? Shaq was lazy, not as good a defender, not as good a passer, and a dog teammate. He was very dominant offensively but he needed Kobe to win because he was not clutch and one of the worst free-throw shooters in NBA history.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Duncan's overall body of work and impact on the game greatly exceeded Hakeem's two year flash in the pan, so I'd say Duncan was better from that perspective.

And Robinson v. Olajuwon will always be measured by one bad series where Bob Hill decided to let Robinson try to single cover Hakeem while Houston threw the entire kitchen sink at DRob. Individual matchups throughout their careers weren't as lopsided as most people believe them to be. Folklore and conjecture.

And ranking Shaq above Duncan? Again, Shaq was unstoppable in his prime. He could have been the greatest center of all time. But I'd take Tim's overall career and impact ahead of Shaq's.

It probably boils down to what we deem to be the qualities by which we judge greatness on the court. Why do most people consider Bill Russell to be better than Wilt Chamberlain? Wilt's individual stats destroy anything Russell ever did, but that doesn't stop those who can measure a player's greatness by more than a stat-line from understanding the intangibles that Russell brought to the game that Wilt didn't. Tim (hopefully) will be remembered similarly. Winning matters, and Duncan did it better than anyone in his era. He made the players around him better, no matter who that was, or what the popular style of play was at the time, and all he did was win for 19 straight years. Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt had their moments, but guys with the sustained winning greatness of Jordan, Russell and Duncan will be remembered as the pillars of league 50 years down the road.

[lefty]

"Hakeems 2 years flash in a pan"

What? Prime Hakeem was fantastic. The only times he had s good team around him he took Houston to the Finals / les.

Following the 86 run, the Rockets had injuries to key players /drug problems that led to trades. But prior those unfortunate events, Hakeem gave the 2 80s powerhouses (both teams in their apex) the business FFS

What did Jordan do with coke addicts like Woodridge?

[Mitch]

So is it Avery Johnson or Stephen Jackson?

It's just...

Shaq > Duncan

[Reck]

Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq are a tier above Timothy

LOL Shaq.

His career torpedoed after he couldn't work with the rapist, had one good year with the Heat and then went ring chasing for the rest of his career until it just died rather pathetically.

[Arcadian]

Figures people would go back to underrating Duncan after he retires. He got a lot of respect in the second half of his career, because the first half was so dominant that everyone knew they were watching a legend. He was already considered the GOAT PF halfway through his career, and rightfully so - he was the first player in history to be First-team All-NBA and First-team All-defense in each of his first 9 seasons. And that sums up why he's a top 5 all-time player: he was the centerpiece for 5 championship teams on both ends of the floor.

Horry was just using hyperbole to emphasize his admiration of Dream, but the way he did it was ing re ed. Next time, get your facts straight and look up the actual FT percentages, asshole. Tim shot 80% from the FT line in 2 seasons. If you're gonna call someone out for that, it should obviously be Shaq.

I think he knows he can get away with saying this because Tim is a chill dude who doesn't overreact to everything that is said about him like a got.

[ambchang]

It's just...

Shaq > Duncan

How? It's just Duncan > shaq.

You suck at talent evaluation, that's why you got fired by even a joke of a franchise like the lakers.

[140]

Shaq needed arguably a top-five player in history to win championships. You're ing kidding me right? Shaq was lazy, not as good a defender, not as good a passer, and a dog teammate. He was very dominant offensively but he needed Kobe to win because he was not clutch and one of the worst free-throw shooters in NBA history.

go back upstairs got

[lebomb]

Dream's peak was short, but only a homer would say Duncan>Dream at their best. I watched both of them live...and Dream at his best was the best big man to ever play.

True in a sense, but go back and look at the Rockets record the entire time Hakeem was on the team. They only won 2 rings when he was there and that was when Jordan was AWOL. The Rockets record hovered around .500 for over 10yrs. Hakeem for 2 season > Duncan............career, its not even remotely close Duncan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hakeem.

[DAF86]

Ellie said Hakeem was better too.

And he, just like Horry, didn't play with 2003 Duncan, tbh.

Hakeem's prime might have been a tiny bit better than Duncans, but considering that the difference in primes isn't significant, and could be argued both ways, and Duncan has the definitive advantange in terms of longevity, you just have to give the overall edge to Duncan.