2007- he's just young. wasn't even supposed to be there tbh.LeBron's help was so bad, tony parker won fmvp (running circles around hughes and Gibson)
2011- only stain in his resume tbh. but to his defense, nobody wss going to stop dirk who was responsible for destroying and ending the kobe-pau-phil dynasty on a sweeping and embarrassing fashion.
2014- LeBron was great but the rest of the big three simply folded which ended their dynasty. doesn't help that LeBron had the daunting task of being matched to an upcoming superstar in kawhi. (has Jordan ever faced an upcoming superstar in a finals, series? nope)
2015- come on, I usually don't believe in moral victories but if im asked to provide an illustrative sample, this series IT!!!. no kyrie, no love. LeBron's herculean effort was so eipc, he almost willed a depleted cavs to victory against a stacked roster mind you.
2017- 73 win team that added a top 3 MVP caliber player under 30, need I say more?
LeBron's has faced the following superstars in the finals
Duncan/tony parker/manu
dirk
kawhi/Duncan/tony parker/manu
Durant/curry/draymond/klay
Durant/westbrook/harden
for comparison, Jordan has faced these
washed up magic/injured lakers
clyde Drexler and terry porter
barkley and a couple of chumps
kemp/payton- (only legit stars the bulls has faced)
Malone and payton x 2 and some more chumps
obviously, different eras but I don't care what era you place the warriors, they are simply going to dominate any nba team, bulls included.
The truth is, if the East wasn't so ty he probably wouldn't have made the finals a lot of those years. He's been making the finals by default, and it provides a good storyline(better than if IND or TOR made the finals), but most times the real finals are the WCF.
If he would've had another contender in the East to challenge him some years where his teams weren't as good, it probably would've done more for his legacy.
come on man, even if he didn't form a big 3 in Cleveland and Miami, I think LeBron's automatic to appear in the finals. I used to think the conference is crap but I've seen him too many times bring a laughable supporting cast to the finals.
Who's the best player in the east that LeBron has stopped from getting to the finals? Carmelo Anthony?
If I'm not going to blame him for losing in the finals, I can't give him credit for getting to the finals every year. He's a perennial underdog when he gets there for a reason.
Kobe 97 to 00. He was young
03. It was shaq a team
04. He only had three HoF teammates
05-07. Lamar didn't exist. Butler didn't exist. The team o my had smash parker and Kwame brown.
08. Team hasn't gelled yet.
11-12 MVPau is a wuss
13-16. The teams too young.
Oh wait, you said goat level. I thought you said greatest second banana of all time level.
Don't tell me even you've started overrating Kobe...
Same thing with Magic in the West, but nobody holds that. against him
The West was weak and the Lakers were stacked
LeBron has had to overcome being drafted by and playing a decade for the Cleveland Cavaliers, who aside from possibly the Timberwolves were the worst non-relocated organization in the NBA.
In 37 years without LeBron the Cavaliers are 1,216-1,800 (40.3%) with one division le, four playoff-series victories, two ECF appearances and zero Finals appearances.
In 10 years with LeBron the Cavaliers are 563-257 (68.6%) with five division les, 18 playoff-series victories, five ECF appearances, four Eastern Conference les and an NBA Championship.
And it isn't as if Cleveland built an organization around LeBron. With a reckless, impulsive owner, a revolving door of coaches and GM's and some questionable draft picks, the Cavaliers still aren't a sound organization. They had the worst record in the NBA in the four years LeBron was in Miami. They're still paying the coach that beat them in Game 1 of the Finals. They've had the dominant player of his generation for a decade and were fortunate to stumble into one ridiculously improbable le with that player.
If LeBron hadn't existed/had been drafted by another team/didn't grow up in NE Ohio the Cavaliers would either be, a.) what they've normally been without LeBron that is, the Siberia of the NBA or b.) playing in Las Vegas. I think he deserves some props for how long and how far he's had to carry this sad-sack franchise.
you do realize he was giving LeBron credit?
so obsessed ...smh
Magic was 5-2 when he got to the finals.
What an awful thread. Lebron shouldn't get a pass, ever
MJ accomplished far more with less. If you go teammate for teammate, LeBron had more talent around him throughout his career and still can't match MJ's ring count and individual accolades.
How can people give LeBron a pass for being in attack mode all game and all of a sudden in the 4th quarter he always stops shooting?
You do realize I was giving Kobe credit?
5-4.
Lost to Pistons, bulls, Celtics and 6ers.
still a winning record
Interesting # posted on ESPN. Lebron is 17-27 in the Finals. He now he holds the record for most losses in the Finals but yeah, lets give him credit for losing.
Not sure what the point is. Why the arbitrary cut off at .500? We are talking different eras, different compe ion, different teammates, different rules, different everything.
Are you trying to say magic>lebron? There are ceetaiy arguments but finals record isn't one of them in my opinion.
They faced more tired teams that faced serious compe ion in the East.
Also the Celtics had injuries to key players in 87 and the Pistons got robbed in 88
I'm not saying LeBron is better than Magic. I'm just saying everybody s on the LeBron but they overlook the other's greats failures
Manu tbh...
Why not? I am.
Everything you posted and more. *87 Mitch Scrubchak pulled a Zaza on Robert Parish to complete the fraudulent le. Prior to that Stern took out both Houstons starting guard since they worked Aids in 1986.
The most weak assed back to back riggers in NBA history.
It' not about giving him credit for losing in Final. It's about acknowledging losing in the finals isn't worse than losing in the first round or missing the playoffs in their prime, so there's no reason why this stat should be repeated. There's many things you can say to actually criticize LeBron.
not necessarily a player but more of a team. wade and the heat, bosh in Toronto. heck he stopped the defending champs pistons didn't he.Who's the best player in the east that LeBron has stopped from getting to the finals? Carmelo Anthony?
If I'm not going to blame him for losing in the finals, I can't give him credit for getting to the finals every year. He's a perennial underdog when he gets there for a reason.
Lebron-led teams have only been favored in 2 of his 8 Finals appearances, tbh..pretty crazy..
Zach Lowe:
"LeBron scored 39 points with 11 reb and 9 ast on 15/27 shooting in 46 minutes. He sat for less than 2 minutes and they were -12 in those 2 minutes and +7 with LeBron on this floor. LeBron has nothing to apologize for and anyone who is going to hold this over his head is a moron." This is from [his podcast with Howard Beck](http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19581070). Noteworthy because it's rare to hear Zach feel so strongly about something. Also interesting is Beck being upset with the NBA for not anticipating the salary cap e, even though people knew it was coming, and doing something to prevent the situation last summer.
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