Real 9-11 Research

[Nbadan]

the former.

I never claimed United 175 disintegrated the way it should have giving the operational limits of the plane, that's the problem...either this plane was one of the lucky ones, another 9/11 Coincidink, that stayed structurally sound after operating in a death- fall at speeds well above its operational limits or it was a modified plane...either way, very, very difficult to pull out from for an inexperienced pilot...

[Nbadan]

What part of "they only flew at those speeds for a few seconds" is wrong? I am talking about the speeds outside the regular operational limits.

Be specific.

Chucky, that's misleading, the pilots flew the planes without GPS, without transponders to set course corrrections for hundreds of miles

[ChumpDumper]

I never claimed United 175 disintegrated the way it should have giving the operational limits of the plane, that's the problem...either this plane was one of the lucky ones, another 9/11 Coincidink, that stayed structurally sound after operating in a death- fall at speeds well above its operational limits or it was a modified plane...either way, very, very difficult to pull out from for an inexperienced pilot...

Former means EA990. 175 would be the latter.

[ChumpDumper]

Chucky, that's misleading, the pilots flew the planes without GPS, without transponders to set course corrrections for hundreds of miles

So you agree that they only flew at the speeds above operational limits for a few seconds?

Yes or no.

Let's take it one step at a time.

[Nbadan]

There is no precedent in the history of aviation, either before or after September 11th, 2001, for controlled flight without loss of structural integrity for this aircraft type (commercial airliner) occurring at such an airspeed, including those aircraft that entered into uncontrolled dives while suffering structural failure....."flight 175" exceeded those dive speeds in perfect control and without suffering any structural failure at an airspeed of 85-100+ knots FASTER than those out-of-control diving, plummeting planes.....

[Nbadan]

is it any wonder that celebrated airman John Lear of Lear Jet fame has managed to convince himself that there could be no plane there, at all, which is of course absurd, but how and why the most certified pilot on the planet would arrive at such a conclusion is very telling....

John Lear's affidavit, 2008

"

The alleged NIST speed of 443 mph (385 kts,) for American Airlines Flight 11 would be technically achievable. However the NIST speed of 542 mph (470 kts) for United Airlines Flight 175 which is 50 kts. above VD is not commensurate with and/or possible, considering:

(1) the power available,***

(2) parasite drag (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators)

(3) parasite power (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators)

(4) the controllability by a pilot with limited experience. 14 CFR Part 25.253 (a)(B)

Therefore the speed of the aircraft, that hit the World Trade Center, as represented by NIST, particularly that of United Airlines Flight 175 is fraudulent and could not have occurred."

Lear's theory that there was no plane involved in the attacks is absurd, but it illustrates the difficulty in making such as move for any pilot, much less an inexperienced pilot...

[ChumpDumper]

So you agree that they only flew at the speeds above operational limits for a few seconds?

Yes or no.

Let's take it one step at a time.

[Nbadan]

There is no precedent in the history of aviation, either before or after September 11th, 2001, for controlled flight without loss of structural integrity for this aircraft type (commercial airliner) occurring at such an airspeed, including those aircraft that entered into uncontrolled dives while suffering structural failure....."flight 175" exceeded those dive speeds in perfect control and without suffering any structural failure at an airspeed of 85-100+ knots FASTER than those out-of-control diving, plummeting planes.....

[ChumpDumper]

There is no precedent in the history of aviation, either before or after September 11th, 2001, for controlled flight without loss of structural integrity for this aircraft type (commercial airliner) occurring at such an airspeed, including those aircraft that entered into uncontrolled dives while suffering structural failure....."flight 175" exceeded those dive speeds in perfect control and without suffering any structural failure at an airspeed of 85-100+ knots FASTER than those out-of-control diving, plummeting planes.....

dan, how long was each plane flying above its operational limit?

5 seconds?

5 minutes?

5 hours?

How long?

And China Airlines 006 suffered damage but was able to be flown and landed after an uncontrolled dive that took it well above its operational limit.

[Nbadan]

Chumpy doesn't like it when people don't play his game....his only fallback is always to try and pigeon hole people into one position or another, I don't know whether flights AA11 and United 175 were the planes that actually hit the WTC towers, maybe they were, maybe they weren't, right now my only argument is that it would have been very difficult for inexperienced pilots to fly these planes the way they did...

[Nbadan]

dan, how long was each plane flying above its operational limit?

5 seconds?

5 minutes?

5 hours?

How long?

And China Airlines 006 suffered damage but was able to be flown and landed after an uncontrolled dive that took it well above its operational limit.

There is no precedent in the history of aviation, either before or after September 11th, 2001, for controlled flight without loss of structural integrity for this aircraft type (commercial airliner) occurring at such an airspeed, including those aircraft that entered into uncontrolled dives while suffering structural failure....."flight 175" exceeded those dive speeds in perfect control and without suffering any structural failure at an airspeed of 85-100+ knots FASTER than those out-of-control diving, plummeting planes.....

[ChumpDumper]

There is no precedent in the history of aviation, either before or after September 11th, 2001, for controlled flight without loss of structural integrity for this aircraft type (commercial airliner) occurring at such an airspeed, including those aircraft that entered into uncontrolled dives while suffering structural failure....."flight 175" exceeded those dive speeds in perfect control and without suffering any structural failure at an airspeed of 85-100+ knots FASTER than those out-of-control diving, plummeting planes.....

China 006 was still flyable, still landable.

You are trying to make it sound like a plane will always completely break apart if it exceeds its operational limit speed.

That is false. China 006 is proof.

Besides, no one has even thought of a reason to use the super special planes you are trying to sell here.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anything but the four regular airliners were used in the attacks.

None.

[Nbadan]

China 006 was still flyable, still landable.

You are trying to make it sound like a plane will always completely break apart if it exceeds its operational limit speed.

That is false. China 006 is proof.

Where was the structural damage to United 175 again? And you think any inexperienced pilot can pull a multi-engine plane out of a death fall, seriously?

[Nbadan]

Besides, no one has even thought of a reason to use the super special planes you are trying to sell here.

[ChumpDumper]

Where was the structural damage to United 175 again?

All over lower Manhattan.

And you think any inexperienced pilot can pull a multi-engine plane out of a death fall, seriously?

No planes were pulled out of death falls during 9/11. That was the point.

What is your reason to use the super special planes you are trying to sell here?

Why use anything but the regular airliners that were hijacked on 9/11?

Speak up.

[RandomGuy]

Looks like this thread is still needed.

Doubt Cosmored will bother with reading any of the links in the OP though.

[RandomGuy]

But each floor of the building was ultimately designed to resist support the weight of the structure above it.

This weight would be equal, by definition to ONE mass regardless of whether that mass was one gram or a million tonnes. So the underlying structure can hold ONE mass plus a safety factor of some sort.

That safety factor can be thought of in terms of the mass of the building.

If you assume that safety factor is 200%, then ultimately if the building collapse begins at the 90th floor out of 110, the lower 90 floors could support a structure weighing twice what the upper 20 floors would weigh.

This is the relative forces involved.

The simple physics here shows that the collapse about 25-30 floors down applies a dynamic force to the floor below it of about 29+ times that of the stationary mass.

Meaning that if the truthers are to be believed, the 80 floors below the collapsing section could have easily supported a safety factor of 2900% of the stationary mass.

Follow this logically and apply that to the 30 floors, 30*29, and you get a building that could have conceivedly been almost a thousand stories tall.

Since I have yet to see, even 40 years after the initial construction of the WTC towers, a building that is two miles high, I think it is a safe assumption that the safety factor was much less than 2900%.

In my calculations I ALWAYS gave favorable assumptions to the truther movement, and there was still more than enough force to ultimately collapse the buildng.

"free fall debunked".

For NBADan

[RandomGuy]

Bam.

Nbadan

Nbadan

Nbadan

[RandomGuy]

dan, the thing to think about is the theory you probably don't know you are now trying to sell here.

You are now saying that no 757s or 767s were used in the attacks.

What are you now saying was used in the attacks, dan?

Dan never answered this.... did he?

[RandomGuy]

Yearly bump.

Because some people think I like conspiracy theories. Evidence to the contrary.

[TeyshaBlue]

We need a chump conspiracy.

[DarrinS]

We need a chump conspiracy.

Dude just disappeared

[DarrinS]

Where TF is Winehole?

[RandomGuy]

There were no hijackers. The US government did it. The proof is crushing.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261123&p=8610878&viewfull=1#post8 610878

Just ignore the shills* everyone.


*
http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html
https://openheartedrebel.com/2012/09...mation-poster/

Holy crap. You're still here?

[RandomGuy]

Where TF is Winehole?

Not sure. Hope he is ok.