Paul detractors: What realistic path would give Spurs better championship odds?

[sexinthatsx]

Gutting the entire Spurs team just to get cp3? No thanks. I'd rather just get Paul George back.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Either way it won't move the needle against GS, barring a Curry ankle explosion or something.

Bringing back the same team, while keeping some flexibility for the future and hoping for a break while being a 55-60 win team isn't that bad of an option, however, getting Paul or another star and having to change a lot of the roster would definitely bring more excitement for next season, albeit just as futile when it comes to competing. People like excitement.

[tbdog]

Gutting the entire Spurs team just to get cp3? No thanks. I'd rather just get Paul George back.

It will take 2 of Gasol, Parker, Green.

Simmons and Mills probably gone anyway. Dedmon is gone.

[spurs10]

Spurs aren't going to do something they don't believe in. One year is no big issue if they feel next year is better.

However, even if they want things to happen this year it does not mean it will happen obviously

Couldn't agree more.

[cd021]

Ditch cp3, wait for cap space to lure Lebron in 2018. In the meantime, bolster up with a solid PG in George Hill or a shooting point in Andre Igoudala (if Spurs have the means to pay them, of course). The staring lineup will either be:

-George Hill, Jonathan Simmons / DG, Kawhi, LMA, Pau

or

-Dejounte, Iggy, Kawhi, LMA, and Pau

for the first couple months until Parker comes back.

Iggy's not leaving GSW unless its a team making him an offer that he can refuse and GSW doesn't want to match.

[portnoy1]

Let's be honest. Kawhi is the only good ball handler we have. He'll be better off taking a break and letting CP3 do his thing, just like Lebron does with Kyrie or KD does with Curry. Right now Kawhi has to be our best defender and only creator on offense, that's so ed up that even Kerr said we're too over dependent on him.

We don't need anymore little game managers that can't run an offense and will just stand in the corner and toss it to Aldridge in the post. Spurs need stars.

I agree Spurs need talent BUT the offensive system is partly to blame as well. If you look at the way Utah ran the Flex Offense it created easier shots for everyone. As a team the Spurs are good passers, so the flex can be run. However to run it effectively you need a distributing PG who can consistently hit open jumpers. Then you need a big who is aggressive when he gets the ball down low. Aside from there obvious skill running that offense was a big reason why Malone scored a lot of points and why Stockton/dwilliams had high assist averages. TP doesn't have the vision or consistently hit jumpers, and Lamarcus isn't aggressive enough to get good position and then GO when he has it.

[TD 21]

Either way it won't move the needle against GS, barring a Curry ankle explosion or something.

Bringing back the same team, while keeping some flexibility for the future and hoping for a break while being a 55-60 win team isn't that bad of an option, however, getting Paul or another star and having to change a lot of the roster would definitely bring more excitement for next season, albeit just as futile when it comes to competing. People like excitement.

If they can convince Paul to sign a 1+1 for roughly $25M (most they can offer by salary dumping Gasol, waiving Forbes, renouncing all free agents), then opt out and sign a 4 year max the following off season, I don't see how that wouldn't move the needle. A top 6-8 player, filling the most glaring hole on the roster and not losing a single relevant piece versus the Warriors.

The whole point of flexibility, is to hopefully turn it into a high end player(s) at some point and you can't do much better than one of the 6-8 best in the league.

[DarrinS]

Expert flopper, too

[Uriel]

FWIW, Chris Paul had the 2nd highest real plus-minus in the NBA last season at +7.92, behind only LeBron James' +8.42, and ahead of even Kawhi Leonard (+7.08). He would definitely make this team better.

[tholdren]

I agree Spurs need talent BUT the offensive system is partly to blame as well. If you look at the way Utah ran the Flex Offense it created easier shots for everyone. As a team the Spurs are good passers, so the flex can be run. However to run it effectively you need a distributing PG who can consistently hit open jumpers. Then you need a big who is aggressive when he gets the ball down low. Aside from there obvious skill running that offense was a big reason why Malone scored a lot of points and why Stockton/dwilliams had high assist averages. TP doesn't have the vision or consistently hit jumpers, and Lamarcus isn't aggressive enough to get good position and then GO when he has it.

Wtf are you talking about. You dont need a pg at all to run the flex, you need guys to set screens. Spurs dont have anyone but lee.

[SAGirl]

I have been ambivalent about CP3 more than anything bc I don't really think he's coming to SA. That makes me skeptical. I tend to think Spurs stand mostly pat and then just tweak some spots due to Tony's injury and Manu perhaps retiring (with a wing spot taken by Hanga). I have wanted the Spurs to improve and the reason I think Mills and Simmons would be overpaid is similar to Pau getting 16 mill to be a bench player. It just doesn't make sense to pay a whole lot (over $10 mill a year for each player, just to have a starting conversation) when both are bench players, unless you want the Spurs to resemble the current Trail blazers..

It's really tough to tell how it will go but for similar money and a bit more I would prefer Spurs to get a better player... so in that sense I am all for signing CP3 or a some other better FA... but the tea leaves have been hard to read on this one for a while (cap issues being just one complexity) so I am in spectator mode. I don't really have strong feelings or thoughts about one direction or the other... going by experience Spurs likely stand pat though. Younger player development is probably what I look forward to the most....

[John B]

But why CP3?

Why invest $150 million in a 32-year-old point guard who has never been beyond the second round?
Because he’s Chris [expletive] Paul!
Is there a more Popovichian point guard than Chris Paul? Is there a coach as exacting and CP3ian as Gregg Popovich?


The knock on Chris Paul is that he wears on his teammates for demanding so much, for paying such close attention to every detail and expecting everyone else to do the same. The knock on Gregg Popovich is ... exactly the same. He rides his players and expects them to limit mistakes and execute the game plan on every possession.
The bitter dismay Popovich has for an out-of-shape Boris Diaw or an out-of-control Patty Mills is the same exactly disapproval Chris Paul gives to a DeAndre Jordan turnover or a J.J. Re missed assignment. They both expect so much because they are each so capable of so much.
Put them together with an inexhaustible and deferential superstar like Kawhi Leonard and you have straight-up magic.
It’s also hard to imagine a better franchise for an aging legend to join to lengthen their career. Tim Duncan balled until age 40 and Manu Ginobili showed he’s still got it at 39. Popovich’s commitment to rest — and the need to bring Dejounte Murray along — could add years to CP3’s career.
Fitting CP3 in with Pop, Leonard, and the Spurs is the easy part. Finding the cap space to make it happen is tougher. But if any franchise can make smart decisions to extend their unparalleled run of success, it’s the San Antonio Spurs.

This

[DMC]

Spurs aren't going to do something they don't believe in. One year is no big issue if they feel next year is better.

However, even if they want things to happen this year it does not mean it will happen obviously

This.

THe Warriors are too powerful right now to make a meaningful run for a le. There's no reason for the Spurs to spend a ton of money trying to beat them. Instead they will probably try to get Manu to play another year to sell tickets and go as far as they can with some of the guys we have like Simmons and Murray, trodding along.

[bic50]

This.

THe Warriors are too powerful right now to make a meaningful run for a le. There's no reason for the Spurs to spend a ton of money trying to beat them. Instead they will probably try to get Manu to play another year to sell tickets and go as far as they can with some of the guys we have like Simmons and Murray, trodding along.

That's pretty weak. You can't just waste a year like that.

[DMC]

That's pretty weak. You can't just waste a year like that.

It won't be presented that way, but that will be the outcome.

[DPG21920]

That's pretty weak. You can't just waste a year like that.

What can you do if CP3 does not want to come? You can't for Paul George or Jimmy Butler to be traded to you. Can't force CP3 to sign on the dotted line. Can't force teams to take Pau/Tony/Danny in trades.

A lot has to happen for things to change and it starts with the draft coming up next week, then getting the FA you want to say yes. Just because nothing happens does not mean SA did not try.

Also, it's not wasting a year. There is nothing you can do to make yourself a favorite against GS. However, if you stay disciplined and have a plan you can at least put yourself in the best position possible over the next 2-5 years to make that run while still being a top 5 team in the league.

This isn't Monopoly where you start over after every game ends. GS has all the hotels built on their properties and we have 2 out of 3 on ours.

[DMC]

What can you do if CP3 does not want to come? You can't for Paul George or Jimmy Butler to be traded to you. Can't force CP3 to sign on the dotted line. Can't force teams to take Pau/Tony/Danny in trades.

A lot has to happen for things to change and it starts with the draft coming up next week, then getting the FA you want to say yes. Just because nothing happens does not mean SA did not try.

Also, it's not wasting a year. There is nothing you can do to make yourself a favorite against GS. However, if you stay disciplined and have a plan you can at least put yourself in the best position possible over the next 2-5 years to make that run while still being a top 5 team in the league.

This isn't Monopoly where you start over after every game ends. GS has all the hotels built on their properties and we have 2 out of 3 on ours.

And they have Boardwalk and Park Place.

People also seem to overlook the fact that GS can also acquire more talent, and probably will given their prognosis.

[DPG21920]

And they have Boardwalk and Park Place.

People also seem to overlook the fact that GS can also acquire more talent, and probably will given their prognosis.

I'm not too worried about that. They will likely be able to keep everyone next year that they want if guys like KD do take some pay cuts, but after that it will get tougher.

My hope is that GS, even with KD pay cuts is capped out for the most part. I really hope that teams offer Iggy & Livingston large money to make KD REALLY take a pay cut to keep them or they lose those guys.

Hopefully other teams build for beating GS by taking some of their assets and flexibility away.

[DMC]

Livingston is a starter coming off the bench. He's really played well, has that short range jumper down to a science.

[Vito Corleone]

Here is my idea of what San Antonio should do.

1. Re-sign Simmons.
2. Nothing else this year.

Next year.
Go after Lebron and a Point Guard that would be willing to come. Kawhi, Lebron, Aldridge, Simmons, PG

Profit

[tonight...you]

But why CP3?

Why invest $150 million in a 32-year-old point guard who has never been beyond the second round?
Because he’s Chris [expletive] Paul!
Is there a more Popovichian point guard than Chris Paul? Is there a coach as exacting and CP3ian as Gregg Popovich?


The knock on Chris Paul is that he wears on his teammates for demanding so much, for paying such close attention to every detail and expecting everyone else to do the same. The knock on Gregg Popovich is ... exactly the same. He rides his players and expects them to limit mistakes and execute the game plan on every possession.
The bitter dismay Popovich has for an out-of-shape Boris Diaw or an out-of-control Patty Mills is the same exactly disapproval Chris Paul gives to a DeAndre Jordan turnover or a J.J. Re missed assignment. They both expect so much because they are each so capable of so much.
Put them together with an inexhaustible and deferential superstar like Kawhi Leonard and you have straight-up magic.
It’s also hard to imagine a better franchise for an aging legend to join to lengthen their career. Tim Duncan balled until age 40 and Manu Ginobili showed he’s still got it at 39. Popovich’s commitment to rest — and the need to bring Dejounte Murray along — could add years to CP3’s career.
Fitting CP3 in with Pop, Leonard, and the Spurs is the easy part. Finding the cap space to make it happen is tougher. But if any franchise can make smart decisions to extend their unparalleled run of success, it’s the San Antonio Spurs.

Love you girl, but do you get piss drunk and go cray on this board from time to time? The binge posting is... well I like it, but I do the same.

[tonight...you]

I have been ambivalent about CP3 more than anything bc I don't really think he's coming to SA. That makes me skeptical. I tend to think Spurs stand mostly pat and then just tweak some spots due to Tony's injury and Manu perhaps retiring (with a wing spot taken by Hanga). I have wanted the Spurs to improve and the reason I think Mills and Simmons would be overpaid is similar to Pau getting 16 mill to be a bench player. It just doesn't make sense to pay a whole lot (over $10 mill a year for each player, just to have a starting conversation) when both are bench players, unless you want the Spurs to resemble the current Trail blazers..

It's really tough to tell how it will go but for similar money and a bit more I would prefer Spurs to get a better player... so in that sense I am all for signing CP3 or a some other better FA... but the tea leaves have been hard to read on this one for a while (cap issues being just one complexity) so I am in spectator mode. I don't really have strong feelings or thoughts about one direction or the other... going by experience Spurs likely stand pat though. Younger player development is probably what I look forward to the most....

Good reason.

[sasaint]

Here is my idea of what San Antonio should do.

1. Re-sign Simmons.
2. Nothing else this year.

Next year.
Go after Lebron and a Point Guard that would be willing to come. Kawhi, Lebron, Aldridge, Simmons, PG

Profit

If the Spurs do #1 & #2 this year, they won't need to sign a PG next year because Dijon will be a rising star with a year under his belt as a starter.

[cjw]

If every other team is punting because they think the Warriors are "too good", why not make a run at them if you have a top five player in the league? The Spurs were up 20 points in all four Warriors games until Kawhi got hurt - yes, they would have still likely lost in 5 or 6, but they're closer than any other team. If you can add the best all around PG since Kidd (apologies to Nash, Curry and Russ) you do it.

Yes, the Warriors' other guys are saying all the right things now but a team could throw dumb money at Iggy, Livingston and Clark (please Brooklyn). That depth is key for them. One injury to Durant, Green or Curry and the gap closes even more.

[coachmac87]

If every other team is punting because they think the Warriors are "too good", why not make a run at them if you have a top five player in the league? The Spurs were up 20 points in all four Warriors games until Kawhi got hurt - yes, they would have still likely lost in 5 or 6, but they're closer than any other team. If you can add the best all around PG since Kidd (apologies to Nash, Curry and Russ) you do it.

Yes, the Warriors' other guys are saying all the right things now but a team could throw dumb money at Iggy, Livingston and Clark (please Brooklyn). That depth is key for them. One injury to Durant, Green or Curry and the gap closes even more.

Seriously can't think of a team in NBA history that "punts" a season with a Top 3 player in the league being in their prime..I dunno how many times I have to say it but Kawhi only has a couple years left and truly contending is what he wants..until Kawhi is locked up long term..never get comfortable.

Spurs are in a weird phase because the Big 3 era is supposed to be over but Kawhi changes things and you can't stop competing for a ring EVERY YEAR.