Stake you claim on White

[MaNu4Tres]

My comparison to Kyle was based on watching a game, not highlights. Just one game for now, I'll watch more.

But when he was handling in the pick and roll, I saw a strong resemblance to Anderson. Patient, under control, measured ... Not too much burst.

Just off that one game, I would say his change of speeds was from average to slow, whereas Kyle shifts speeds from slow to slower to glacial to petrifaction.

Agreed on your view of White. Exactly what I think as well. Not too impressed. People will point at his 3/4ths sprint time and say he's an athlete but that's not the type of test that translates over. It's about quickness, acceleration, change of speeds -- which he doesn't have. Don't see a high ceiling with White on either end of the floor -- which is why I peg him as a back up lead guard at the very best. If Spurs have him at the SG position, they will only be able to get away with it against poor compe ion. If he's on the floor at the SG when it matters, he'll get exploited like Mason did.

There were players available w/ higher upside at position of a greater need. I trust RC, but I was disappointed in the pick. The PG position is the most saturated position in the league, you can almost always find a serviceable back up every off-season if needed.

[SAGirl]

Yeah I was coming at you from a general Ageism stance. The problem with the laws of the basketball universe today is that college coaches don't really have the time (or inclination? - okay, I won't go there) to coach guys up to the same level of fundamental soundness that the NBA expected in days of yore. NBA coaches also lack the time to really coach guys on fundamentals due to the rigors of the NBA schedule. So, it takes most of those freshmen coming into the NBA about 2-3 more years to really get to a point where they are strong contributors - almost the same length of time they would have spent in college. So, the players will receive compensation, which they will not receive in college, but the burden of player development falls more on pro coaches. They have very expensive on-the-job trainees, many of whom will wash out. And are most pro coaches really capable of teaching basketball fundamentals - player development? You think Pringles would be a good guy to teach good basketball skills?

I know they don't have time for that (the Head Coaches at least), thus they place guys in a game and when the youngsters don't execute what they are supposed to be doing, in reality they should take a moment and teach, but they are too worried about winning a game etc... I suppose the best time for that is garbage time considering and I have to say I have seen Pop engaged coaching youngsters in garbage time and nodding heads and such, sometimes taking guys out of the game for a teaching moment, which I have enjoyed seeing, but seldom teams have a lot of garbage time and this team didn't have a lot (not as much as last year's team). many games were close, some went to OT, etc... margin of wins wasn't as high. Pop also had a whole 7 new guys in the team, some vets but 4 rookies together at one time and one could hardly say vets Kyle and Jsimms were really vets, they are still learning for their own part ... some things they already know and/or should know but they are still very much learning too. its really the Becky Hammon's of the world and Udoka who have taught these guys... the summer league coaches, and obviously the dleague. Their improvement from season 1 to 2 is noticeable.. they generallly look less lost and know what is expected better but yea, it took two entire and full years, summers included to find out of Simmons was going to have a career in the NBA and that was after he had already paid his way into the dleague and did his time there for two full years on his own. That was 2 full years.

Kyle was coached in high school by the HoF coach Bob Hurley... his dad is an AAU coach far as I know and he played in a reputable university... he also played for team usa young men's team one summer. he's had coaching but his gift all through his life was passing.. playing off the ball is a whole other game. he had to learn... guys are so fricking impatient that they declare a young guy's career over in their first season. I believe you can see the greats in their first season and see something, but others take longer to find a niche and their role... some get to the NBA and frankly are still growing and fairly weak. so I definitely see your point.

I did have apoint that just stats didn't tell me much about a guy bc age is much more signficant earlier in their lives than later. specifically for those same reasons, the player development, body maturity etc... just isn't the same to compare someone 3 years older that early in their careers... scouts have maybe taken that too far and in doing so missed on a whole lot of good talent.

Jokic for example at the time of his draft didn't look like he does now.

[south side spur]

After watching the vid of Kadeem Allen shutting him down and watching his weaknesses vid on DraftExpress, I never gave this guy a chance, but I have since warmed to him

He responded in a major way at the PAC 12 tournament but I can't find the full game. They still lost but he bounced back from their first game vs Arizona...in AZ by the way.

9-19 fgs, 9-9 fts, 31 pts, 5 ast, 6 rebs, 2 stl.

[cd98]

Don't know near enough about this kid to thumb up it or down it. His bio doesn't scream elite player, but if he fails in this league, it doesn't appear that it will be because of lack of work ethic and perseverance.

[99 Problems]

I like both picks tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if the late 76's pick were for us as well. The next few weeks will tell if Bolden etc heads this way as well.

[Mr. Body]

If you haven't yet, watch the full game vs UCLA. He definitely wasn't outclassed by Ball. I think the cynics are going to change their tune after the summer league...I'm thinking it might only take one game actually. Hopefully, we see a lot of Murray AND White together in the back court this summer.

Just saying, Ball is ridiculously overrated.

[picnroll]

He responded in a major way at the PAC 12 tournament but I can't find the full game. They still lost but he bounced back from their first game vs Arizona...in AZ by the way.

9-19 fgs, 9-9 fts, 31 pts, 5 ast, 6 rebs, 2 stl.

and write up said Kadeem Allen was his primary defender. Kid adjusted.

[south side spur]

I'm watching that first game vs AZ and he was more of a traditional point that game. Colorado jumps out early to a healthy lead then Miller calls a timeout and White sits. AZ went on an 11-0 run with White sitting for most of it. He was setting his teammates up in the first half but they just weren't finishing. He didn't force anything on offense.

Defensively, he fell asleep (Danny style) and gave up a couple open 3s but on a fast break he had a great stop demonstrating that vertical on a contest (again, Danny style).In the second half he got beat on a back door cut but had a Simmons like contest AGAIN demonstrating that vertical. It was a tremendous play in my opinion.

What I like about him is he doesn't just run into the screen he recovers but then again some of these screens would be an embarrassment to the LGBT community so I realize he'll be facing tougher.

He had a nice deflection/steal, lost the ball, and then in secondary transition attacked and finished. Soon after, he picked up full court and on the double came away with the steal at half court and accelerated for a transition lay up.

He can penetrate at will although he did have three turnovers forcing the issue including 2 bad passes. Watch the game for yourselves though because I am a homer but I like what I'm seeing. Bill Walton commentary makes it more than tolerable.

[raybies]

I'm watching that first game vs AZ and he was more of a traditional point that game. Colorado jumps out early to a healthy lead then Miller calls a timeout and White sits. AZ went on an 11-0 run with White sitting for most of it. He was setting his teammates up in the first half but they just weren't finishing. He didn't force anything on offense.

Defensively, he fell asleep (Danny style) and gave up a couple open 3s but on a fast break he had a great stop demonstrating that vertical on a contest (again, Danny style).In the second half he got beat on a back door cut but had a Simmons like contest AGAIN demonstrating that vertical. It was a tremendous play in my opinion.

What I like about him is he doesn't just run into the screen he recovers but then again some of these screens would be an embarrassment to the LGBT community so I realize he'll be facing tougher.

He had a nice deflection/steal, lost the ball, and then in secondary transition attacked and finished. Soon after, he picked up full court and on the double came away with the steal at half court and accelerated for a transition lay up.

He can penetrate at will although he did have three turnovers forcing the issue including 2 bad passes. Watch the game for yourselves though because I am a homer but I like what I'm seeing. Bill Walton commentary makes it more than tolerable.

Dope. I'm watching the UCLA game.

Some Notes:

He has a deceptive first step thanks to a slight hesitation. I haven't seen him ISO yet. It's either a pick and roll or a pump fake on a close out and a drive.

He did not have a lot of talent around him at Colorado. The way he probes the screen and role, I think if he had a finishing big, he could be very dangerous.

He is very unselfish and is pretty much a system player. I think this is a great situation for him.

He is a very effective shooter. All his shots look like they have a chance. He's got a nice stroke.

He shows great anticipation on D imo and I think that's why he averaged a block per game. He plays really well positionally and puts his body in the right place.

He's really good about drawing fouls on drives. He doesn't shy away from contact but instead initiates it.

[GSH]

My comparison to Kyle was based on watching a game, not highlights. Just one game for now, I'll watch more.

But when he was handling in the pick and roll, I saw a strong resemblance to Anderson. Patient, under control, measured ... Not too much burst.

Just off that one game, I would say his change of speeds was from average to slow, whereas Kyle shifts speeds from slow to slower to glacial to petrifaction.

I wasn't trying to beat you up over it. Just saying that there's only so much similarity you can have between two players who are that physically different, and playing different positions. I have to watch the way I word things.

Kyle is a big boy. If he hits the weight room this offseason, and gets stronger, I haven't give up on him at all. But if you can't be quick (and he isn't) you really do need to be strong.

I haven't said it, but I'm not crazy about the fact that they refer to White is a combo guard. I've come to really, really hate combo guards. I used to get really excited, because of all the potential. But over many years of watching them come and go, I've sort of decided that the only combo guards that really work out are the ones that are already clear star-level talents when they arrive. The other ones, we keep hoping will live up to all that potential. But mostly, they wind up being not enough of anything to excel. I really hope White isn't one of those.

[ceperez]

Yeah I was coming at you from a general Ageism stance. The problem with the laws of the basketball universe today is that college coaches don't really have the time (or inclination? - okay, I won't go there) to coach guys up to the same level of fundamental soundness that the NBA expected in days of yore. NBA coaches also lack the time to really coach guys on fundamentals due to the rigors of the NBA schedule. So, it takes most of those freshmen coming into the NBA about 2-3 more years to really get to a point where they are strong contributors - almost the same length of time they would have spent in college. So, the players will receive compensation, which they will not receive in college, but the burden of player development falls more on pro coaches. They have very expensive on-the-job trainees, many of whom will wash out. And are most pro coaches really capable of teaching basketball fundamentals - player development? You think Pringles would be a good guy to teach good basketball skills?

I agree. Most draft picks are wasted training sop res to improve their game. The game is so complex these days that most of these players just don't have the experience to know what to do on the court.

It is almost becoming like the NFL where you can find talent almost everywhere and the best athletes don't necessarily translate.

[ceperez]

Dope. I'm watching the UCLA game.

Some Notes:

He has a deceptive first step thanks to a slight hesitation. I haven't seen him ISO yet. It's either a pick and roll or a pump fake on a close out and a drive.

He did not have a lot of talent around him at Colorado. The way he probes the screen and role, I think if he had a finishing big, he could be very dangerous.

He is very unselfish and is pretty much a system player. I think this is a great situation for him.

He is a very effective shooter. All his shots look like they have a chance. He's got a nice stroke.

He shows great anticipation on D imo and I think that's why he averaged a block per game. He plays really well positionally and puts his body in the right place.

He's really good about drawing fouls on drives. He doesn't shy away from contact but instead initiates it.

Great notes. He does know how to navigate in traffic.

What concerns me is that he doesn't have the speed or athleticism to beat his man on single coverage.

Howver, he's got a good shot and can shoot off the dribble.

[cutewizard]

John Stockton lite!

[picnroll]

Anyone who doesnt like White at 29 should watch tape on another combo guard, Luke Kinnard, taking at number 12 by the Pistons. Unless Kinnard's outside shooting is significantly better than White's there is absolutely no metric where Kinnard is better, offense or defense. Even shooting White has a quicker one motion shot, Curry like, while Kinnard's is a slower two motion. I didn't look at Kinnard's pre-draft because he wasn't in the Spurs range but I would be very unhappy if they'd ended up with him somehow.

[Mr. Body]

Anyone who doesnt like White at 29 should watch tape on another combo guard, Luke Kinnard, taking at number 12 by the Pistons. Unless Kinnard's outside shooting is significantly better than White's there is absolutely no metric where Kinnard is better, offense or defense. Even shooting White has a quicker one motion shot, Curry like, while Kinnard's is a slower two motion. I didn't look at Kinnard's pre-draft because he wasn't in the Spurs range but I would be very unhappy if they'd ended up with him somehow.

If White went to Duke he would have been picked at #10, even at his age.

[raybies]

If White went to Duke he would have been picked at #10, even at his age.

Yeah, I wonder why he wasn't a late lottery pick like McCollum for example. My guess is because he came out of nowhere and didn't have previous signature games to build status.

But it I love how he just lets the game come to him.

[Maddog]

Anyone who doesnt like White at 29 should watch tape on another combo guard, Luke Kinnard, taking at number 12 by the Pistons. Unless Kinnard's outside shooting is significantly better than White's there is absolutely no metric where Kinnard is better, offense or defense. Even shooting White has a quicker one motion shot, Curry like, while Kinnard's is a slower two motion. I didn't look at Kinnard's pre-draft because he wasn't in the Spurs range but I would be very unhappy if they'd ended up with him somehow.

The biggest question marks NBA people have about Kennard undoubtedly revolve around his defense. He has an unappealing combination of short arms, average lateral quickness, and a just-decent frame that already puts him at a significant disadvantage right off the bat. He - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kennard-72914/ ©DraftExpress



When you look at it objectively, Kennard is more of a question mark,
Count me as a yes
He has a quick release and a determined at ude.

[picnroll]

The biggest question marks NBA people have about Kennard undoubtedly revolve around his defense. He has an unappealing combination of short arms, average lateral quickness, and a just-decent frame that already puts him at a significant disadvantage right off the bat. He - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kennard-72914/ ©DraftExpress



When you look at it objectively, Kennard is more of a question mark,
Count me as a yes
He has a quick release and a determined at ude.

On offense to an even greater degree Kinnard cannot turn the corner, he's more dependent on others to create a shot for him, his passing, vision and ability to deliver the ball, greater dependence on his right hand, less guile at the basket and his handles don't appear to measure up to White's.

[MaNu4Tres]

On offense to an even greater degree Kinnard cannot turn the corner, he's more dependent on others to create a shot for him, his passing, vision and ability to deliver the ball, greater dependence on his right hand, less guile at the basket and his handles don't appear to measure up to White's.

Kennard at 12 was such a terrible pick. Blossomgame will be more valuable than Kennard when the dust settles.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Underwhelming pick, however, after seeing him play I really don't see the issues described in the mock drafts about him - athleticism, low shooting point, slow release, etc. He seems like a guy who's not well known and thus most of what's written about him can be taken with a grain of salt.

What I see is that he's long, has a 8'6 standing reach which is impressive, especially compared to some similar players taken much earlier, like Donovan Mitc , for example. Klay Thompson's is only an inch longer. He's strong and his athleticism is actually good, not bad. No idea where the bad athleticism thing comes from. His shot is smooth and he has all the tools to be a good defender. Him and Murray would make a very nice combination, especially if Murray improves his spot up shooting, can't wait to see them play in summer league. I see a lot of Wes Matthews potential in him.

[Mr. Body]

Kennard at 12 was such a terrible pick. Blossomgame will be more valuable than Kennard when the dust settles.

There's only one white boy shooter that's turned out good from Duke in the NBA and that's Red and that's because he busted his ass. Kennard's gonna be .

[Mr. Body]

Underwhelming pick, however, after seeing him play I really don't see the issues described in the mock drafts about him - athleticism, low shooting point, slow release, etc. He seems like a guy who's not well known and thus most of what's written about him can be taken with a grain of salt.

What I see is that he's long, has a 8'6 standing reach which is impressive, especially compared to some similar players taken much earlier, like Donovan Mitc , for example. Klay Thompson's is only an inch longer. He's strong and his athleticism is actually good, not bad. No idea where the bad athleticism thing comes from. His shot is smooth and he has all the tools to be a good defender. Him and Murray would make a very nice combination, especially if Murray improves his spot up shooting, can't wait to see them play in summer league. I see a lot of Wes Matthews potential in him.

He's underwhelming simply because the ESPN hype machine didn't talk him up. They chat up ty players who we'll never hear from again.

[raybies]

Kennard at 12 was such a terrible pick. Blossomgame will be more valuable than Kennard when the dust settles.

Another McDermott imo

[MaNu4Tres]

Another McDermott imo

I think a shorter Babbitt is more accurate. McDermott > and I'm not a fan of McDermott.

[picnroll]

Listening to Danny Leroux (massive GS homer who covers that team) on the Realgm podcast. He asked Sam Vencenie of Sporting News, a big NBA draft nerd, who his favorite pick from 16 to 30 was. Vencenie said Derrick White. He had White at 16 on his board.