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  1. #2126
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    its the booze talkin really

  2. #2127
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...rd-career-arcs

    The article with the graph gives some more info. Like the heights of small vs big. Also small sample size.

    Not sure why you'd get worked up over this.
    Thanks for sharing...

    FWIW, and for whoever is interested:
    The way I've studied this in the past is to look at ratio compared to peak winning percentage, the per-minute version of my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric. A few years ago, I put together a list of players who had played at least nine seasons and at least 10,000 minutes and ended their careers between 2005 and 2010.

    That list had 21 players I labeled point guards. They divide rather evenly into 10 players 6-foot-2 or taller (the tall group) and 11 who were 6-foot-1 or shorter (the short group, and at 5-foot-9 I mean nothing disparaging by that). While those sample sizes are smaller (shorter) than ideal for this kind of study, the results are fascinating.

    While the smaller point guards were for the most part effective immediately -- Brevin Knight's best season was his rookie year at age 22, while Damon Stoudamire's came in year three at age 24 -- the larger guards generally took longer to develop. Rod Strickland peaked at age 29, Gary Payton peaked at age 30, and Cassell did not reach his peak until age 34.
    So as a group, the taller point guards didn't hit their peak until age 30, much later than the smaller point guards (age 26, a little younger than the typical age-27 peak across all positions). Every year after age 27, the taller point guards were relatively better, often substantially so.


    Last edited by SAGirl; 06-26-2017 at 11:54 PM.

  3. #2128
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Anyways, I got way sidetracked. What I was coming here to post was this... I am not sure if it was already posted elsewhere. I just happened to see the graph in twitter and I thougth it was interesting. But anyways, news on Tony.

  4. #2129
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    its the booze talkin really

  5. #2130
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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  6. #2131
    Veteran marinoman's Avatar
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    Quick, everyone get naked!

  7. #2132
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Kevin Pelton is such a chode. Most intellectually dishonest stat guy in the NBA mainstream.

  8. #2133
    Veteran rastaspur's Avatar
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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...rd-career-arcs

    The article with the graph gives some more info. Like the heights of small vs big. Looks like WARP is used for peak. Also small sample size.

    Not sure why you'd get worked up over this.
    Even when I'm worked up I'm not even worked up. Think chong. Not much bark to my bite.

    Like sa girl said, it's not her chart. She takes alot of undeserved on here. I got no beef with her. She genuinely is a fan and not a troll and spends a decent bit of time trying to make a positive contribution to this site.

    This site needs more sa girls and less bucket trolls.

    Enough of that flattery and sweet talk though. I've earned some brownie points so show me your (sa girl) s.

  9. #2134
    Veteran rastaspur's Avatar
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    Kevin Pelton is such a chode. Most intellectually dishonest stat guy in the NBA mainstream.
    And that is why I take breakdowns like his with a grain of salt.

  10. #2135
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Even when I'm worked up I'm not even worked up. Think chong. Not much bark to my bite.

    Like sa girl said, it's not her chart. She takes alot of undeserved on here. I got no beef with her. She genuinely is a fan and not a troll and spends a decent bit of time trying to make a positive contribution to this site.

    This site needs more sa girls and less bucket trolls.

    Enough of that flattery and sweet talk though. I've earned some brownie points so show me your (sa girl) s.
    I can't do that, but I send you a hypothetical brownie...

    Bottom line maybe the chart doesn't mean diddly squat. and really no one cares about the point. I was interested though about his relating height/lack thereof to decline. I had never seen the point made that taller PG peak later though.

    Looking at his sample size it was very small though... literally. I suppose just noise. ESPN guy after all.. they are all about making some noise. lol

  11. #2136
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    This what I'm rooting for right now
    Hill/Murray/Parker
    Simmons/White/Hanga/Forbes
    Leonard/Anderson/Blossomgame
    Millsap/Bertans/
    Milutinov/Lee/

  12. #2137
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    This what I'm rooting for right now
    Hill/Murray/Parker
    Simmons/White/Hanga/Forbes
    Leonard/Anderson/Blossomgame
    Millsap/Bertans/
    Milutinov/Lee/
    Is it budget realistic?
    I have no idea about these things.

  13. #2138
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    Is it budget realistic?
    I have no idea about these things.
    dunno but its fun for me. before i posted i was gonna attempt to do it but i was like thats alot of work and im about to hit the hay

  14. #2139
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    dunno but its fun for me. before i posted i was gonna attempt to do it but i was like thats alot of work and im about to hit the hay
    g.night. lol

  15. #2140
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    but it should be possible. with danny and lma and most the fas renounced besides Jsimms we were suppose to have about 40 mil. but we should have the bi annual and room exception on top of the cap space

  16. #2141
    Veteran rastaspur's Avatar
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    I can't do that, but I send you a hypothetical brownie...

    Bottom line maybe the chart doesn't mean diddly squat. and really no one cares about the point. I was interested though about his relating height/lack thereof to decline. I had never seen the point made that taller PG peak later though.

    Looking at his sample size it was very small though... literally. I suppose just noise. ESPN guy after all.. they are all about making some noise. lol
    Peak this. Peak that. Can't a just get a peak of those ties and call it a night?

    Oh well. I will live to fight another day. Will just chip away at you until concede. Just gonna do it with laughter and jokes. It's an irresistible formula.

    Sweet dreams, sa girl.

  17. #2142
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    This what I'm rooting for right now
    Hill/Murray/Parker
    Simmons/White/Hanga/Forbes
    Leonard/Anderson/Blossomgame
    Millsap/Bertans/
    Milutinov/Lee/
    Sorry son but I don't like that at all.

    -Simmons is a journeyman with limited potential. If he is your starting SG you don't have a chance in of doing anything of worth. That's why the Spurs made that joke of a offer.
    -Not only we don't know if White can be decent yet, but you also want to play him out of position. Much of his worth is being a taller than average PG, making him a smaller than average SG doesn't make sense.
    -Anderson just doesn't cut it as the backup 3. He had the chance to prove himself for years now and he just hasn't been up to it. He can work as a backup 4 though.
    -Lee as center. Just no.

  18. #2143
    Veteran marinoman's Avatar
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    Why is green still here, one day of activity/reporting then a week break?

  19. #2144
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Why is green still here, one day of activity/reporting then a week break?
    my su ion with green... and this is Mamame Mim wild speculation ...
    he was rumored to be up for trade with a high price. Spurs are not about to throw him in some fire sale (like unfortunately they may be forced to do with Aldridge). i think if they could have gotten in the lottery to trade for Porzingis or something of htat nature (like the porzinguis rumors that were around) or just turn Danny plus Aldridge into a signficant upgrade in overall talent and youth, they would have done it, but that didn't happen.. and now it depends on a FA agreeing to join the team and the Aldridge situation.

  20. #2145
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    Sorry son but I don't like that at all.

    -Simmons is a journeyman with limited potential. If he is your starting SG you don't have a chance in of doing anything of worth. That's why the Spurs made that joke of a offer.
    -Not only we don't know if White can be decent yet, but you also want to play him out of position. Much of his worth is being a taller than average PG, making him a smaller than average SG doesn't make sense.
    -Anderson just doesn't cut it as the backup 3. He had the chance to prove himself for years now and he just hasn't been up to it. He can work as a backup 4 though.
    -Lee as center. Just no.
    Simmons is a better all around player than Green. The thing i would be most concerned with actually is the fact he shrivels off the ball but in this scenario Hill isn't much of a playmaker so you could put Simmons in the pick and roll and he could be a playmaker something this lineup would be lacking. I think you underrate Simmons. When he has the ball in his hands, he's much better than playing off the ball. Also you worry about Hill and if he could still be worth it with less usage, which he can in my estimation, but you don't want him to revert to Indiana Hill, which was fine but not as good as Utah Hill who was a second option.

    On topic about White, that is an overreaction imo. He'll be in position sharing Guard duties with Murray. What they lack in girth they can make up in length at the guard slots. There's not very many shooting guards in the league coming off the bench that can post up so they'd be fine most nights.

    Anderson could play the three but I agree he'd be best as a power forward. I just thought in the above mentioned scenario that that unit needed spacing and you cant play Anderson and Bertans at the 4/5. And they are next on the pecking order so they both should be in. And Anderson could play the 3 on defense and the 4 on offense playing alongside Bertans.

    Lee at center is much better than the crap available this offseason.

  21. #2146
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    Wouldn't mind this lineup either. I'm starting to wonder about having so much turnover and remaining stable.

    Murray/White/Forbes/Parker
    Green/Simmons/Hanga
    Leonard/Anderson/Blossomgame
    Millsap/Bertans
    Gasol/Milutinov

  22. #2147
    Veteran mo7888's Avatar
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    Wouldn't mind this lineup either. I'm starting to wonder about having so much turnover and remaining stable.

    Murray/White/Forbes/Parker
    Green/Simmons/Hanga
    Leonard/Anderson/Blossomgame
    Millsap/Bertans
    Gasol/Milutinov
    If milsap's contract is 3 years I like it.

  23. #2148
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    This what I'm rooting for right now
    Hill/Murray/Parker
    Simmons/White/Hanga/Forbes
    Leonard/Anderson/Blossomgame
    Millsap/Bertans/
    Milutinov/Lee/
    I really don't want this lineup because I don't want the Spurs to invest heavily in two aging FAs. At the right price I prefer Hill to CP3, and that has almost as much to do with his familiarity with Pop as it does his play. After years of a big three not only on the court but as conduits/enforcers of Spurs culture in the locker room, if Danny and Manu (and Tony...?) all depart, we will have another serious culture drain one year after the GOAT departed. Consequently, I bet PATFO value Hill pretty highly.

    But seeing your proposed depth chart makes me think that Bertans and Anderson are the PFs the team will go with.

    I also rue the fact that Pop grew to despise Deadman. We need a big with his agility and defensive potential at all areas of the floor if our PFs are Davis and Kyle. Either that or make a decision on which skill set we prefer - Kyle's or Davis' and move the other for a tougher PF option. But contrary to your chart, neither Davis nor Kyle is a legitimate SF.

  24. #2149
    Believe. Lostwingman's Avatar
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    I doubt we can afford Hill, not with LMA and Parkers contracts hanging on the Spurs neck.

  25. #2150
    foaming at the nostrils raybies's Avatar
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    I really don't want this lineup because I don't want the Spurs to invest heavily in two aging FAs. At the right price I prefer Hill to CP3, and that has almost as much to do with his familiarity with Pop as it does his play. After years of a big three not only on the court but as conduits/enforcers of Spurs culture in the locker room, if Danny and Manu (and Tony...?) all depart, we will have another serious culture drain one year after the GOAT departed. Consequently, I bet PATFO value Hill pretty highly.

    But seeing your proposed depth chart makes me think that Bertans and Anderson are the PFs the team will go with.

    I also rue the fact that Pop grew to despise Deadman. We need a big with his agility and defensive potential at all areas of the floor if our PFs are Davis and Kyle. Either that or make a decision on which skill set we prefer - Kyle's or Davis' and move the other for a tougher PF option. But contrary to your chart, neither Davis nor Kyle is a legitimate SF.
    Yeah it's a tough proposition given the age of Hill and Millsap, but play the scenarios out. It doesn't look good out there, as far as fit and skill to price. I'm looking at Hill and Millsap as bargains for the right price but in fairness, unless Millsap decided he wants to go to best chance of winning mixed with best contract we don't really have a chance. Hill seems like a logical solution at point and should come at a bargain but you never know. Winning + $$$ we have a chance, but just $$$, we could only get one and I'm not sure they are worth it or anyone sans CP3 or Hayward...

    As for Anderson and Bertans, you are right. They are both 4s but I think Anderson would be first in the pecking order due to time spent. PATFO really gonna have to pull a miracle out of their hat as far as bigs go. Maybe they see Milutinov and Gasol for centers which you would need one more.

    Hill/Murray/Parker
    Green/White/Hanga/Forbes
    Leonard/Simmons/Blossomgame
    Gasol/Anderson/Bertans
    Dedmon/Milutinov

    ??? I mean what game are they playing. Is it by ear. Who'd you rather have Millsap or Hill for the same price? Either way with just one, I don't think that's enough help for Leonard, WCF or less.

    I dunno, Free agency taking too long.

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