Official 2017 Offseason Thread

[cd98]

Carrying five PGs seems excessive doesn't it?

In fairness, they are combo guards, so you can play them at the one and two, and maybe even Murray at the 3 for a little.

[Leetonidas]

Just saw some news article where Maradona (Argentinean soccer player) claims Manu is returning next season. Not sure how he would know this but take it for what it's worth

[BatManu20]

[GSH]

The one year deal is pretty obviously a recent development because Hill wasn't getting what he wanted over multiple years. I think the Spurs-Hill talks were no where near being fruitful and broke off long before Hill got this desperate.

I'm assuming your'e talking about why they didn't offer a one year deal, because picking him up now for 1 year would be a mistake, IMO.

If the Spurs have a le chance in the next 5 years it involves Murray being a star. A one year George Hill rental just gets in the way of that. No thanks.

Its time to roll the dice and hope the Spurs struck some Manu/Parker level luck.

You're dead on with all of that.

What these contracts should be telling people is that drafting well is key, and rookie scale contracts are a gold mine. You just can't bring in enough players from outside to say out of the lux tax. Isiah Thomas went 60th in the draft. Had he gone to the Spurs at that time, he probably couldn't have gotten enough minutes for anyone to know that he could be a starter. Murray showed a lot, when he got thrown into the fire. White made the first round, after having no D1 scholarship offers coming out of HS - guys who have done that turned out to be late bloomers who were very good NBA players. I really wish the Spurs had just rolled with those two, and shored up other parts of the roster this year. If they don't have what it takes, they would have had the flexibility to go after a top PG next year.

Sign Hill now? They already have Mills who is going to soak up a lot of minutes. If/when Tony comes back, there won't be many minutes for Murray, and none for White.

[cd021]

I doubt the Spurs are going higher than the MLE. If they are willing to give him more in terms of APY, they're probably hoping for an offer sheet match. Just assuming that Porter is matched, though, the Spurs might well prefer S&Ting for Gay and keeping the MLE for Dedmon or some other big.

Murray, Green, Leonard, Gay, LMA
Mills, White, Anderson, Bertans, Gasol

Prefer to have Simmons back for an affordable price but that is a pretty good alternative, especially if Aldridge plays the 5 with Gay at the starting 4

[BatManu20]

If only Parker's contract was off the books, tbh,

[BatManu20]

[SAGirl]

This is what's missing from the Spurs' offense:



This is what it looks like now:



This exact same thing is happening with the motion sets too. It's all just different ways to set up isos. Even Zipper plays that led to post-ups had great movement, which prevented help defense. People can blame the players all they want, but Pop just isn't running the sets the way he needs to to get guys good shots.

you know what I don't like about that... that Lma should pop to the 3.
It's diffferent personnel that the offense is around and Kawhi is not going to be zipping around like Tony... its fine if they get their shots a little different, but in the first video it was Danny at the top of the key or in the wings ending up with a good open 3... in the Kawhi and LMA PnP, it ends up in a 2 pt shot by LMA... it's less valuable, and less threatening to a defense. Say the guy who pops is Bertans for an open 3, that is a whole lot more dangerous. If LMA wants to continue as a soft jumpshooting big, he needs to shoot the 3.

[GSH]

This is what's missing from the Spurs' offense:


This is what it looks like now:



This exact same thing is happening with the motion sets too. It's all just different ways to set up isos. Even Zipper plays that led to post-ups had great movement, which prevented help defense. People can blame the players all they want, but Pop just isn't running the sets the way he needs to to get guys good shots.

Just a quick scan through those videos, Chinook, and what jumps out at me is an extreme lack of effective picks in the second series. A lot of going through the motions. The difference in Tim, Tiago, and Boris vs. now is pretty big. And it's fundamental to a lot of those plays.

[spursistan]

[BatManu20]

[SAGirl]

Just a quick scan through those videos, Chinook, and what jumps out at me is an extreme lack of effective picks in the second series. A lot of going through the motions. The difference in Tim, Tiago, and Boris vs. now is pretty big. And it's fundamental to a lot of those plays.

That is present absolutely everywhere... by all the bigs.
the best pick setter is Pau IMO.
LMA barely moves or grazes anyone, he's lazy all the time. They more I look at him the less I like him.
DAvis also doesn't make contact, he's very slim too which doesn't help... but he's quick as a cat getting open, just needs a guy who can find him. A lot was said early in the season that he wasn't shooting enough, but he wasn't getting free bc he was not setting good picks at all.
I think another reason Dedmon also didn't get free for as many lobs as he could have was that he also didn't make contact on picks (afraid to get called for a foul maybe?)
I did like Lee's picks.

I'd take Baynsie back just bc his massive body can get any guard free.

[Chinook]

you know what I don't like about that... that Lma should pop to the 3.
It's diffferent personnel that the offense is around and Kawhi is not going to be zipping around like Tony... its fine if they get their shots a little different, but in the first video it was Danny at the top of the key or in the wings ending up with a good open 3... in the Kawhi and LMA PnP, it ends up in a 2 pt shot by LMA... it's less valuable, and less threatening to a defense. Say the guy who pops is Bertans for an open 3, that is a whole lot more dangerous. If LMA wants to continue as a soft jumpshooting big, he needs to shoot the 3.

Here's the problem as I see it: Kawhi is getting the ball off the zipper cut and goes into a high PnR almost every time. There's opportunity to do anything else. It's just an iso against poor spacing. If you take the first vid and see where Green got the ball, not only would that work for Leonard with him being able to shot, but those are MUCH better positions from which to attack. Maybe LMA should pop, but as the second option, he could also get looks like the ones Tim got in 2013.

In addition to that, running the ZS the way they used to would allow them to get a guard better looks than they'll get off ISOs. Neither Murray nor Mills is an ideal fit for the Parker role, but forcing the D to focus on more than just one guy is how you get a balanced offense. The Zipper Series had plays for everyone in it back then. Now it's pretty much high-PnR or bust.



Imagine those Green drives were Leonard drives instead. So much better than high PnRs.

[GSH]

Hill got some bad advice. Maybe a lot of those stories about him getting near-max were started by his agent. That was a colossal screw up, if the Jazz offered him a multi-year at $20M per.

If he signs a 1-year deal, and has a great year, he can salvage things. If he signs a 1-year deal and gets injured again? Or even if he comes off the bench? He just threw away a pile of cash.

[SAGirl]

George Hill = the loser in FA.
Feel bad for him...

Maybe Spurs will avoid being loser no. 2... they aren't looking too good right now.

[BatManu20]

[Chinook]

Just a quick scan through those videos, Chinook, and what jumps out at me is an extreme lack of effective picks in the second series. A lot of going through the motions. The difference in Tim, Tiago, and Boris vs. now is pretty big. And it's fundamental to a lot of those plays.

The same thing is there when looking at the motion sets too. That cross-screen to free up the four at the beginning of Motion Weak has been terrible for a couple of years. There's also a lack of urgency when it comes to making passes and getting into position to receive them.

That being said, they used to only run the high-PnR during the Zipper Series as a last resort, because it's a terrible play. Now, that's almost all they do. They need plays were Kawhi and LMA don't have the ball for most of the clock so they can get into attacking position. I don't know if Pop simplified it because the Spurs could no longer run something complex, or if the simplification led to the lethargy the team has on that end.

[sasaint]

The same thing is there when looking at the motion sets too. That cross-screen to free up the four at the beginning of Motion Weak has been terrible for a couple of years. There's also a lack of urgency when it comes to making passes and getting into position to receive them.

That being said, they used to only run the high-PnR during the Zipper Series as a last resort, because it's a terrible play. Now, that's almost all they do. They need plays were Kawhi and LMA don't have the ball for most of the clock so they can get into attacking position. I don't know if Pop simplified it because the Spurs could no longer run something complex, or if the simplification led to the lethargy the team has on that end.

Guess who?

[GSH]

The same thing is there when looking at the motion sets too. That cross-screen to free up the four at the beginning of Motion Weak has been terrible for a couple of years. There's also a lack of urgency when it comes to making passes and getting into position to receive them.


That being said, they used to only run the high-PnR during the Zipper Series as a last resort, because it's a terrible play. Now, that's almost all they do. They need plays were Kawhi and LMA don't have the ball for most of the clock so they can get into attacking position. I don't know if Pop simplified it because the Spurs could no longer run something complex, or if the simplification led to the lethargy the team has on that end.

Yeah, don't even get me started on the lack of urgency in the passing game. But I totally agree with the rest of what you said earlier. And, yeah, a lot of that is definitely on Pop. And I don't understand it.

[ceperez]

The same thing is there when looking at the motion sets too. That cross-screen to free up the four at the beginning of Motion Weak has been terrible for a couple of years. There's also a lack of urgency when it comes to making passes and getting into position to receive them.

That being said, they used to only run the high-PnR during the Zipper Series as a last resort, because it's a terrible play. Now, that's almost all they do. They need plays were Kawhi and LMA don't have the ball for most of the clock so they can get into attacking position. I don't know if Pop simplified it because the Spurs could no longer run something complex, or if the simplification led to the lethargy the team has on that end.

When you lose 3 high IQ bigs like Duncan, Diaw and Tiago then I'm not surprised that the execution is wanting.

[Chinook]

When you lose 3 high IQ bigs like Duncan, Diaw and Tiago then I'm not surprised that the execution is wanting.

That only explains so much. I said earlier that the Spurs should have focused their off-season on acquiring players who could fit the motion offense of old, but I'm not seeing it so far. Biggest issue by far is figuring out where Leonard is supposed to be in those sets. I'd rather him play the four in the motion sets and have Bertans start next to LMA than putting Aldridge in that spot, given how terrible the cross-screen has been so far.

[GSH]

When you lose 3 high IQ bigs like Duncan, Diaw and Tiago then I'm not surprised that the execution is wanting.

Yeah, I think most people underestimate that. Like they didn't understand Fabbs, or why so many players liked having him on the court with them.

But that still doesn't make sense out of Pop's part.

[Robz4000]

It doesn't work that way. To get Hill for that kind of money would have required massive roster dumps elsewhere.

If they renounced all their FAs or go through with trading Green they definitely could've. Hill > Simmons and Mills even though I'm not a big fan of Hill.

[Chinook]

If they renounced all their FAs or go through with trading Green they definitely could've. Hill > Simmons and Mills even though I'm not a big fan of Hill.

They still didn't have the money, even ignoring Gasol.

[GSH]

They still didn't have the money, even ignoring Gasol.

I'm not pushing for Hill, so let's don't go down that path. But can't the Spurs still waive and stretch Tony, and clear about $10M in extra space for this season? Or use him in a trade to someone who could then waive and stretch him - the Spurs could send out $15M in salary, and the other team could get out of that same $10M? So some of these teams that are looking for younger pieces could send out a vet contract, and still have some cash for a younger guy?

I don't think there's much chance that the FO does that, but technically they could make a deal, if the right one came along... right?