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Spurs power players in free agency? They had to convince LMAnot to choose a ty Phoenix team over them, ffs.
for me it's like somebody asking what tbh means tbh...
Spurs power players in free agency? They had to convince LMA
They weren't concerned with future cap space when they made those move (at least, they were concerned with absolutely maximizing it). Mills' hold only mattered because after this season, they would not have been in good position to get under the cap again had they used their cap space on a max guy. Bertans, Simmons and Anderson were due for raises. Kawhi was eligible for a supermax the year after that. Parker wasn't signing for the min. The Spurs made those moves to open up a max slot this season. That they missed out sucks, but even with Mills on the roster, they should have a max slot next summer too if they are smart with Pau.
The Spurs didn't even know LMA was going to sign until right before he did. Dude made them have a second meeting to make sure they were going to give him enough touches. I think they knew he was willing, but I don't think it was certain. If anything, I think Gasol was more certain. The Spurs have gone for a missed out on plenty of FAs over the years. Just look at the ones this year as an example of how successful they usually are.And I don't know if I buy the hindsight argument. I don't buy that the Spurs would have had no clue whether a max free agent would commit to them until 12:01am. Like LMA, there surely had to be back-channel talks.
They knew CP wasn't coming before they inked the deal. They didn't know that before they sat down with Patty and agreed to a deal. One of the big unanswered questions is what their actual target list looked like. The other big one is what Mills would have gotten on the open market. We know there was someone in his tier who got less, but we don't know if he would have gotten even less than that. I really do think he was going to be Philly's top target. $23 Million over a single year plus a MLE deal after that would have given him as much as he had locked in with SA. It's not clear he didn't leave money on the table himself.Plus, they knew CP3 was off the marker before they committed to Patty. All of which negates the hindsight narrative.
I know, but in a case like this, there should have been no rush.
I know you love salary cap minutia, but there are ways around a lot of different things, if you're aggressive, creative and both sides want it.
It took Leonard playing at a historic level and Parker turning back the clock to barely fend off a Grizzlies team without a single starting wing or competent backup point guard. Whoever they get next season is likely to be considerably more talented. They're absolutely at risk of losing . . . and going into Leonard's final season under contract with potentially significant cap space, but no star (that they'd have the balls to pursue, at least) to spend it on.
Even though I knew they'd mostly run it back, it's still somewhat surprising considering Pop's clear displeasure (it was beyond his usual ) last season and the ever evolving landscape of the league.
Some here are delusional. All he has to be is Olympic Melo.
He doesn't necessarily have to play hero ball with Harden and CP3 on his team though.
Yes, but so many teams are over the cap and signed players they can't get rid of, that if they hold the course, they'll have the cap space plus a superstar. Give me something after this uneventful offseason.Spurs power players in free agency? They had to convince LMA
I guess it depends on what you mean. I agree that Mills was not the right guy to lock in if you were Paul or bust. But I do think that provided you did think Mills was a keeper, locking him in without letting him test the market was smart. I really do think Philly would have given him a fair bit of coin instead of Re .
There are different ways to get space and work deals. I've said repeatedly that I don't like the path the Spurs chose, and I'm pretty happy it failed. If they are smart and only give Pau a one-year deal, I'll think this off-season was okay and could have been worse.I know you love salary cap minutia, but there are ways around a lot of different things, if you're aggressive, creative and both sides want it.
Eh, the Grizzlies were luckier to win their second game than the Spurs were to win their fourth. I certainly want them to find another scorer to bolster the bench, but they weren't really in any danger of losing that series, and they would have done much the same against any team other than GS.It took Leonard playing at a history level and Parker turning back the clock to barely fend off a Grizzlies team without a single starting wing or competent backup point guard. Whoever they get next season is likely to be considerably more talented. They're absolutely at risk of losing . . . and going into Leonard's final season under contract with potentially significant cap space, but no star (that they'd have the balls to pursue, at least) to spend it on.
I don't think Pop was going to change for change's sake. I do hope he fixes his scheme, though. We don't know his plan for the rest of his rotation yet. They are obviously going to sign front-court guys.Even though I knew they'd mostly run it back, it's still somewhat surprising considering Pop's clear displeasure (it was beyond his usual ) last season and the ever evolving landscape of the league.
And Porker has never needed to play heroball with Duncan, Manu and Kawhi, but when has that ever stopped him? Heroball usually isn't about need, it's about a player's massive ego and overrating of their own skills.
There's only one Kawhi on the Spurs. Harden/Melo could ISO us to death by attacking our ty starting lineup sans Kawhi.
Don't you think their lack of concern about future cap space to sign up patty for long term $$ is pretty ing stupid? I get that that's what they did -- my point is that it was a stupid move. Emphasizing the $6.8MM figure could respond to my concern, if it wasn't just for this year.
All of this begs the question: if you whiff on a max player, why knee-jerk sign Patty for an atrocious deal at 12:01am. Doesn't that seem like terrible planning and negotiating?
We'll agree to disagree on that. I'm fairly certain that the Spurs knew long before LMA signed that he was going to/most likely was going to sign. There doesn't seem to be any indication that a max player was batting his lashes at the spurs this season a la what happened with LMA in 2015. All of which is to say, opening up max room this year was unnecessary, especially after the CP3 trade
Again, I think you're making the spurs seem less tuned-in to what players were going to do than they actually are.
Disagree. Beverley said that the CP3 trade had been known for two weeks prior to its completion. That would mean that the spurs should have known CP3 wasn't coming more than two weeks before 12:01am happened. They had an ample window to negotiate Patty's deal (within those two weeks). Or, if it had been agreed to long before June, then that's an even more damning criticism of PATFO's approach to this off-season -- committing long term money to a player without even bothering to gauge what the market for said player is.
This is probably the crux of our disagreement. Locking Patty in without letting him test the market is not good negotiation because it leads to egregiously over-paying for a player. Like what we did with Patty.
Yes, the possibility of a Philly to-good-to-be-true offer is there. In that situation, you cut your losses and let the guy walk. The better approach is to have your Patty alternative lined up and if the guy is intent on signing a ridiculous offer, you let him walk and roll with the alternative. There may be some draw-backs to rolling with your option B, but those draw-backs aren't as severe as knee-jerk overpaying for a mediocre-at-best player for the long term.
Who's Porker?
Choke-P is going to hate Melo's chucking until the playoffs arrive and he needs a scapegoat, tbh. In the postseason, he'll let Melo chuck to his heart's content and get all the blame for their playoff flameout. Same story as Jamal in LA.
Choke-P? That's a HORRIBLE attempt at a nickname
The Spurs have a max slot with Patty's deal next year. They didn't need to penny-pinch. If they are now going to run with Murray/Mills/White at PG, they can do so just fine without feeling like their cap is wasted. It was much more critical to get cap space this year for reasons that I'm sure are obvious.
We can disagree or whatever, but if you actually remember what happened, you'd know that he totally didn't agree beforehand. I'm sure the Spurs knew he was going to take their meeting, but they had to work hard to get him to sign up. That's why teams meet with players in the first place. If everyone knew beforehand, those meetings wouldn't happen.We'll agree to disagree on that. I'm fairly certain that the Spurs knew long before LMA signed that he was going to/most likely was going to sign. There doesn't seem to be any indication that a max player was batting his lashes at the spurs this season a la what happened with LMA in 2015. All of which is to say, opening up max room this year was unnecessary, especially after the CP3 trade
Again, I think you're making the spurs seem less tuned-in to what players were going to do than they actually are
They had no reason to believe a PG of note would sign for less than $6.8 Million. No one did. I don't know if they think they got a starting PG for that price or a backup. But it was pretty obvious they liked his cap number and wanted to lock it into their equations, which they could only do with a deal in hand. Again, though, we don't know Mills' market was less than what he got. If they wanted him, they may well have saved actual dollars by signing him early.Disagree. Beverley said that the CP3 trade had been known for two weeks prior to its completion. That would mean that the spurs should have known CP3 wasn't coming more than two weeks before 12:01am happened. They had an ample window to negotiate Patty's deal (within those two weeks). Or, if it had been agreed to long before June, then that's an even more damning criticism of PATFO's approach to this off-season -- committing long term money to a player without even bothering to gauge what the market for said player is.
MVPorker
Am I missing something or is Melo really heading to Houston??
I don't think Mills' deal is nearly as bad as some people do. It will totally depend on how they use him and how he responds to that use. There are things Patty can do in an offense that not many of the guards on the market could, and those are things I want the Spurs to bring back. If Pop thinks he can make sets that work with Patty's strengths (speed and a quick release on jumpers), then I think it could be a decent contract. If they just intend for him to stand off the ball and chuck shots, it's much less appealing.
You're missing something
Pretty wild that even though now is the time you can hear about signings & trades it's still so quiet on the Spurs front. They have guys they need to replace, even if the plan is to run back mostly the same team.
Why would Mills have taken 1/$23M (they supposedly were committed to only giving 1 year deals) from 76ers over 4/$50M from Spurs? And if he did, again, they should have pivoted to one of the PG's in his class. They operated with their heart first and minds second, which is obviously bad business.
Mills' cap hold was largely irrelevant because the '18 flexibility is considering the porous free agent class. They should have looked to strike this summer.
Maybe, but every game with the possible exception of game 1 (even then, they had to overcome a terrible start) was a struggle. The fact that it was, is more telling than them supposedly "not being in any real danger of losing that series". That part was only because of how limited the Grizzlies were.
It appears that's what it came down to. That team was a fluke in a watered down season. There is no scheme change that's going to fix anything. They're not the high IQ team they used to be and they lack talent, neither of which is getting fixed by whichever backup bigs are signed, who probably won't even be as good as last season's.
It's the bind I was looking at last year this time. They can only do something medium anyway, unless they make a trade that weakens them somewhere else. They might be working a big deal, but that will put them at least a year away from putting it all together. It was inevitable - last year or this year. Last year is gone, so I'm just looking at this year. I hope they go ahead and make a move for a piece worthy of playing alongside Kawhi, and put the icing on next year.
I don't think the deal itself is bad. Bringing patty back was bad. You have two 1st round picks the last 2 years at PG. You have Forbes we are keeping around. And we have Parker still trying to play. It just seems redundant. Especially with White and Forbes as similar type players.
If parker ends up not coming back then it makes a little sense. But still...
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