Tim Duncan won FOUR championships without another all-NBA teammate

[Maddog]

I get what you're saying. But it's not rare for a team to have multiple lottery pics under 34. If you assume that the average for a lottery pick is around 20, then that's 14 years of lotteries with 14 players in each.
It's really just a matter of who pans out combined with low draft players/undrafted players.

But I agree that most of the champions had multiple lottery picks that became stars. IMO, the Pistons did the most with the least. Even though they had Billups and Wallace who were lottery picks (I think). They weren't like Duncan, Shaq, Lebron.

The 04 and 05 Pistons had at least 4 lottery picks (top 10) under 34. Hamilton, Billups, Wallace and the Beno destroyer Hunter. In fact the 2104 Spurs team was probably the only le team not to have a single lottery pick in their prime. Despite the tone on this board- the Spurs FO has done a remarkable job of keeping this team in le contention.
Both the Cavs and Dubs have had huge number of loerry picks leading up to their current teams and ownership that is able to go way over the cap.

[TheGreatYacht]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014

The Big 2

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Not going to argue with that. But still, I found DR's offensive game to be erratic and TD's to be quite refined. I loved watching TD operate going back to Wake Forest. The thin DR was going to get pushed off his block or get the ball at the elbow as he relied on athleticism. TD was like Larry Bird, he was the master of the half inch. All types of moves and options in the post; so smooth.

Tim might be the guy to have built a team around regardless of who you compare him to. For all the intangibles he brought to the Spurs, anyone who argues against him being a top 5 all-time great are out of their minds.

But DRob would have been a force in today's NBA, not as multi-dimensional as Duncan, but unstoppable by today's NBA talent. In this era of small-ball, where guys live at the line if someone breathes on them, DRob would have probably averaged double digits on free throws alone. His speed and length would have given him a swat fest on the defensive side of the ball. Prime David would probably average 40 and 18, with 5 blocks per game without trying too hard. He had to grind it out in the last great era for big centers when he was playing. Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, etc., and every team had some mountain in the paint to try to slow the elite centers down. In today's game there'd be no one to stop him.

[Phenomanul]

Tim might be the guy to have built a team around regardless of who you compare him to. For all the intangibles he brought to the Spurs, anyone who argues against him being a top 5 all-time great are out of their minds.

But DRob would have been a force in today's NBA, not as multi-dimensional as Duncan, but unstoppable by today's NBA talent. In this era of small-ball, where guys live at the line if someone breathes on them, DRob would have probably averaged double digits on free throws alone. His speed and length would have given him a swat fest on the defensive side of the ball. Prime David would probably average 40 and 18, with 5 blocks per game without trying too hard. He had to grind it out in the last great era for big centers when he was playing. Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, etc., and every team had some mountain in the paint to try to slow the elite centers down. In today's game there'd be no one to stop him.

Most people on this board never saw Robinson playing in his prime... sadly.

[Spurtacular]

Tim might be the guy to have built a team around regardless of who you compare him to. For all the intangibles he brought to the Spurs, anyone who argues against him being a top 5 all-time great are out of their minds.

But DRob would have been a force in today's NBA, not as multi-dimensional as Duncan, but unstoppable by today's NBA talent. In this era of small-ball, where guys live at the line if someone breathes on them, DRob would have probably averaged double digits on free throws alone. His speed and length would have given him a swat fest on the defensive side of the ball. Prime David would probably average 40 and 18, with 5 blocks per game without trying too hard. He had to grind it out in the last great era for big centers when he was playing. Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, etc., and every team had some mountain in the paint to try to slow the elite centers down. In today's game there'd be no one to stop him.

Hmmm. D-Rob would arguably have bigger gains than TD in this small ball era. Fair argument.

[ajh18]

Yeah saying that TD is the guy you build around isn't much of a leap. You're basically saying you'll take a guy who will be the best in the league for 5 years or so, capable of winning a le basically on his own, and then will be a top 3-5 big man for another 14 years. Who else gives you that? No drama or diva-behavior (Shaq, Lebron, Kobe) or laziness (Shaq), or off-court stuff (Barkley, Jordan) or hated by teammates for their ego (Kobe, Jordan), or injury-shortened careers (Bird, Magic, Robinson). Who is left? Kareem maybe. That's his only peer.

All that said, I'd pay good money to see DRob in today's NBA, where he's pretty much the only traditional center I've ever seen with the speed and athleticism to keep up with today's style and also dominate it. Or to have Manu throwing him alley oops in the 90s. In different cir stances David could and should have been remembered as superior to Shaq, just as dominant in a different way but a much better defender. Agree that he'd be in the 30s scoring with mid-teens rebounds and close to 5 blocks today. He was much better than a guy like Anthony Davis at pretty much everything. At least he went out a champ. Well-deserved, my favorite player ever.

[TheDoctor]

...David didn't have the luxury of having good deep squads that could contend for les...

You know nothing Phenomaul.

#TripleThreat

[TheDoctor]

Yeah saying that TD is the guy you build around isn't much of a leap. You're basically saying you'll take a guy who will be the best in the league for 5 years or so, capable of winning a le basically on his own, and then will be a top 3-5 big man for another 14 years. Who else gives you that? No drama or diva-behavior (Shaq, Lebron, Kobe) or laziness (Shaq), or off-court stuff (Barkley, Jordan) or hated by teammates for their ego (Kobe, Jordan), or injury-shortened careers (Bird, Magic, Robinson). Who is left? Kareem maybe. That's his only peer.

All that said, I'd pay good money to see DRob in today's NBA, where he's pretty much the only traditional center I've ever seen with the speed and athleticism to keep up with today's style and also dominate it. Or to have Manu throwing him alley oops in the 90s. In different cir stances David could and should have been remembered as superior to Shaq, just as dominant in a different way but a much better defender. Agree that he'd be in the 30s scoring with mid-teens rebounds and close to 5 blocks today. He was much better than a guy like Anthony Davis at pretty much everything. At least he went out a champ. Well-deserved, my favorite player ever.

ing greatness tbh.

[ElNono]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014

Kawhi was already NBA All-Defensive team in 2014, FWIW...

[Spurtacular]

Tony only won one championship without another All-NBA player (2014).

Tim & Tony each won one championship without another all-star:

Duncan: 2003
Parker: 2014

TP wasn't even the best player on the 14 Spurs.

[Phenomanul]

You know nothing Phenomaul.

#TripleThreat

Don't see the blue font... But I suppose you know how many years Terry mings was actually healthy before he blew his knee? TBH the best teams Robinson had was early on in his career when he had healthy Rod Strickland / mings / Elliott by his side - unfortunately that's about as deep as those teams went (Willie Anderson had his best year as a rookie and then progressively worsened every year)... they took the Blazers to 7 games before Strickland inexplicably coughed up the ball in the waning seconds of Game 7 and Elliott missed a crucial 4th quarter free throw. They hit a Golden State team that was clicking on all cylinders (with a big three of Chris Mullin / Mitch Richmond / Tim Hardaway) but Larry Brown was stubborn and failed to make the right adjustments to beat them. After that Robinson was surrounded by incomplete and severely limited squads. Give him a prime Manu and Parker and they would've gotten past both of those squads. TBH Jordan's Bulls would've been grossly outmatched inside.

[TheDoctor]

Don't see the blue font... But I suppose you know how many years Terry mings was actually healthy before he blew his knee? TBH the best teams Robinson had was early on in his career when he had healthy Rod Strickland / mings / Elliott by his side - unfortunately that's about as deep as those teams went (Willie Anderson had his best year as a rookie and then progressively worsened every year)... they took the Blazers to 7 games before Strickland inexplicably coughed up the ball in the waning seconds of Game 7 and Elliott missed a crucial 4th quarter free throw. They hit a Golden State team that was clicking on all cylinders (with a big three of Chris Mullin / Mitch Richmond / Tim Hardaway) but Larry Brown was stubborn and failed to make the right adjustments to beat them. After that Robinson was surrounded by incomplete and severely limited squads. Give him a prime Manu and Parker and they would've gotten past both of those squads. TBH Jordan's Bulls would've been grossly outmatched inside.

I thought the long waited smiley and hashtag implied sarcasm too

Anyway, Triple Threat was sarcasm

[BatManu20]

The le of this thread is factually incorrect. Nonetheless, Timmy the Gawd was and always will be a legend.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The le of this thread is factually incorrect. Nonetheless, Timmy the Gawd was and always will be a legend.

The caps that year were the best championship hats, too. Far better than those white abominations in '14.

[TheDoctor]

The caps that year were the best championship hats, too. Far better than those white abominations in '14.

I prefer flat bills tho. But yeah, those colours (2003) work better.

[SASdynasty!]

TP wasn't even the best player on the 14 Spurs.

2014 All Stars: Tony Parker
2014 All-NBA: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Finals Leading Scorer: Tony Parker

"Not the best player" lol

[Spurtacular]

2014 All Stars: Tony Parker
2014 All-NBA: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 RS Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Scorer: Tony Parker
2014 Playoff Leading Assists: Tony Parker
2014 Finals Leading Scorer: Tony Parker

"Not the best player" lol

So in a vacuum, you'd have got rid of TD or Kawhi instead of TP in 14 if you had to get rid of one?

[SASdynasty!]

So in a vacuum, you'd have got rid of TD or Kawhi instead of TP in 14 if you had to get rid of one?

Absolutely. Parker had been carrying that team for the last 3 years at that point. We don't win a chip without any of those 3, but you don't do much of anything with an aged Duncan and with Kawhi's disappearing acts. Without Parker, that team wouldn't have got out of the first round. Thankfully he carried them in their only elimination game that year.

[Spurtacular]

Absolutely. Parker had been carrying that team for the last 3 years at that point. We don't win a chip without any of those 3, but you don't do much of anything with an aged Duncan and with Kawhi's disappearing acts. Without Parker, that team wouldn't have got out of the first round. Thankfully he carried them in their only elimination game that year.

That's just stupid. TD and Kawhi were defensive stalwarts. TP was a one-dimensional player on a team with plenty of offensive weapons. The mere fact that I could argue that Patty would've been a better starter in 14 than Parker should tell you how off you are. He certainly was a better closer.

[skulls138]

I didnt know that. Thats awesome. The most underrated pg in the era of pgs

[RD2191]

Absolutely. Parker had been carrying that team for the last 3 years at that point. We don't win a chip without any of those 3, but you don't do much of anything with an aged Duncan and with Kawhi's disappearing acts. Without Parker, that team wouldn't have got out of the first round. Thankfully he carried them in their only elimination game that year.

Crofl. Kill yourself stupid old got. Spurs were getting their pushed in by 8 seeds before Kawhi got here.

[SASdynasty!]

That's just stupid. TD and Kawhi were defensive stalwarts. TP was a one-dimensional player on a team with plenty of offensive weapons. The mere fact that I could argue that Patty would've been a better starter in 14 than Parker should tell you how off you are. He certainly was a better closer.

Lol, "Patty would have been a better starter."

Here are their PER-36 minutes stats. Keep in mind, Parker is playing against starting unts and Mills is playing against benches:

2014 Regular Season:

Parker: 20.4 / 7.0 on 50%
Mills: 19.5 / 3.5 on 46%

2014 Playoffs:

Parker: 20.0 / 5.6 on 49%
Mills: 17.2 / 3.4 on 45%

So even against benches Patty couldn't put up the same production as Parker, lol. Even Cojo had better per-36 numbers than Mills in the playoffs!

[Spurtacular]

Lol, "Patty would have been a better starter."

Here are their PER-36 minutes stats. Keep in mind, Parker is playing against starting unts and Mills is playing against benches:

2014 Regular Season:

Parker: 20.4 / 7.0 on 50%
Mills: 19.5 / 3.5 on 46%

2014 Playoffs:

Parker: 20.0 / 5.6 on 49%
Mills: 17.2 / 3.4 on 45%

So even against benches Patty couldn't put up the same production as Parker, lol. Even Cojo had better per-36 numbers than Mills in the playoffs!

Dude, your numbers are on my side. Mills with comparable numbers playing on the second team. You've thoroughly lost this argument.

[SASdynasty!]

Dude, your numbers are on my side. Mills with comparable numbers playing on the second team. You've thoroughly lost this argument.

Hahaha, yah less points, half the assists, and worse shooting against backups all while adjusting his minutes to extrapolate what he didn't even do. So giving Mills every possible benefit of the doubt still doesn't get him to Parker's actual numbers.

[Spurtacular]

Hahaha, yah less points, half the assists, and worse shooting against backups all while adjusting his minutes to extrapolate what he didn't even do. So giving Mills every possible benefit of the doubt still doesn't get him to Parker's actual numbers.

Second team defenders are that much worse than starters? No. In many cases, they're better b/c they've been told that's how they're going to get their minutes. And the benefit of starting is playing with more weapons and being focused on less. You can go back to 2014 and find plenty of video of Mills being the Spurs closer deep in games. And stop bragging about assists numbers from Tony Parker of all people.