OT: ..I wonder what sport Ramona Shelburne used to play?

[140]

Dude, you don't know what the you are talking about.

Rugby players sprint more than any other team sport players outside of NFL receivers. No, you can't pass the ball forward but you can kick it forward and on thode plays is a one on one race between two players to get faster to the ball. Also when a player manages to break lose you have to run for your life or else you are getting decapitated from behind.

Then you have things like the Scrum, 16 guys of over 150 kilos pushing and fighting each other for position.

And finally, you are constantly getting hit and tackeld on a sport which has no breaks. Do you realize how hard is to keep going and going non-stop, falling and raising every 2 minutes without the chance of getting a break? No other sportman is prepered for tjat kind of pounding.

I would love to see you trying to play organized Rugby someday, would be hilarious, tbh.

Rugby might be the anti-lardball tbh

[DAF86]

Rugby might be the anti-lardball tbh

I tried to play Rugby once. Never committed that mistake again.

[midnightpulp]

And how do you come up with those numbers?

The study involved sports scientists, who likely correlated the demands of the sport to the level of athleticism and skills required for the sport/position.

For example: 100m dash is built around max sprint speed, so under the speed category, it would get a 10. The event is all pure sprint speed and nothing else. Fastest man wins. Agility, handeye coordination, etc plays zero part in the outcome.

The centerfielder position in baseball is built around max sprint speed, in the field and at bat (center fielders are expected to be tough outs since they can beat out throws), but baseball obviously isn't built around sprinting and nothing else, since there's actions in baseball that don't always require sprinting. This is where a bit of subjectivity comes in, but I think it's reasonable to rate speed here an 8.

Let's check out soccer: It's not a pure sprinting game, but sprint speed is obviously important. I think it's reasonable to rate forwards (4-3-3) 8 sprinters, midfielders 7 sprinters, defensemen 8 sprinters, and goalies 5 sprinters (i.e. sprinting out to challenge a shot or corral a loose ball) 28/4= a 7 overall rating in the sprint speed category.

[DAF86]

The study involved sports scientists, who likely correlated the demands of the sport to the level of athleticism and skills required for the sport/position.

For example: 100m dash is built around max sprint speed, so under the speed category, it would get a 10. The event is all pure sprint speed and nothing else. Fastest man wins. Agility, handeye coordination, etc plays zero part in the outcome.

The centerfielder position in baseball is built around max sprint speed, in the field and at bat (center fielders are expected to be tough outs since they can beat out throws), but baseball obviously isn't built around sprinting and nothing else, since there's actions in baseball that don't always require sprinting. This is where a bit of subjectivity comes in, but I think it's reasonable to rate speed here an 8.

Let's check out soccer: It's not a pure sprinting game, but sprint speed is obviously important. I think it's reasonable to rate forwards (4-3-3) 8 sprinters, midfielders 7 sprinters, defensemen 8 sprinters, and goalies 5 sprinters (i.e. sprinting out to challenge a shot or corral a loose ball) 28/4= a 7 overall rating in the sprint speed category.

So like I suppossed, a lot of subjective bull .

[midnightpulp]

Dude, you don't know what the you are talking about.

Rugby players sprint more than any other team sport players outside of NFL receivers. No, you can't pass the ball forward but you can kick it forward and on thode plays is a one on one race between two players to get faster to the ball. Also when a player manages to break lose you have to run for your life or else you are getting decapitated from behind.

Then you have things like the Scrum, 16 guys of over 150 kilos pushing and fighting each other for position.

You also have those high bombs that are constantly prompting aerial challenges.

And finally, you are constantly getting hit and tackeld on a sport which has no breaks. Do you realize how hard is to keep going and going non-stop, falling and raising every 2 minutes without the chance of getting a break? No other sportman is prepered for that kind of pounding.

I would love to see you trying to play organized Rugby someday, would be hilarious, tbh.

The fastest ball sport athletes in the world play American football. This isn't up for debate. No ball sport challenges MAX sprint speed like football. Agility. There is no rugby position that demands agility like the RB position. Strength? Find me a rugby player who is 375lb and can bench 600lb, and ALSO has a 40 yard dash time of ~5 seconds. Durability? Where's the huge CTE controversy in rugby?

I already conceded rugby challenges kicking far more than football.

and and rugby having 16 men over 150kg (330lb) "pushing and fighting" each other. You're the one talking out of his ass. (fun fact: that would also make rugby far and away the fattest sport in the world, so I guess rugby now gets the fatball name).

Look at those 330 pounders:



Rugby players are comparatively small to football players (and comparatively slow).

"No breaks! Stamina is all the matters!"

Gives a . Running ten miles takes 1000 times more stamina and is much more exhausting than golf. Golf is still massively more difficult and challenging. Basketball takes a lot more stamina, agility, and athleticism than chess, but chess's learning curve is far, far higher. I know I'm comparing a sport to a game, but it should demonstrate your fallacy of fetishizing muh stamina over other athletic and skill traits.

[midnightpulp]

So like I suppossed, a lot of subjective bull .

Subjective arguments can have reasonable logic and facts supporting them. It's why I hit your lot with "graphs" and "walls of text" because the majority of your arguments are shallow and consist of, "They run around a lot!!!"

[RD2191]

[midnightpulp]

well i guess this chart puts the "baseball players are faster and more agile than soccer player" argument to rest, if you plan to cite this religiously

and at years and hundreds of pages arguing between sports ranked #9 and #10 respectively, lower than gymnastics and tennis

You're philoling again.

The study folded in softball in baseball's overall scores. I also never claimed baseball players are more agile. Faster in a straight line, yes, as proven by on field sprint speed metrics.

[Mitch]

of course the Argie would defend Rugby since it's comparable to bukake ball. There's no comparison between the physical prowess of football players (real football, not soccer) to rugby. Players wear all that padding and still get far more injuries regularly, rugby is pillow fighting in comparison.

[DAF86]

The fastest ball sport athletes in the world play American football. This isn't up for debate. No ball sport challenges MAX sprint speed like football. Agility. There is no rugby position that demands agility like the RB position. Strength? Find me a rugby player who is 375lb and can bench 600lb, and ALSO has a 40 yard dash time of ~5 seconds. Durability? Where's the huge CTE controversy in rugby?

I already conceded rugby challenges kicking far more than football.

and and rugby having 16 men over 150kg (330lb) "pushing and fighting" each other. You're the one talking out of his ass. (fun fact: that would also make rugby far and away the fattest sport in the world, so I guess rugby now gets the fatball name).

Look at those 330 pounders:



Rugby players are comparatively small to football players (and comparatively slow).

"No breaks! Stamina is all the matters!"

Gives a . Running ten miles takes 1000 times more stamina and is much more exhausting than golf. Golf is still massively more difficult and challenging. Basketball takes a lot more stamina, agility, and athleticism than chess, but chess's learning curve is far, far higher. I know I'm comparing a sport to a game, but it should demonstrate your fallacy of fetishizing muh stamina over other athletic and skill traits.

I don't give a if a WR runs faster than the faster rugby player, or any of that other you said. I'm not saying that Rugby players are the faster, nor stronger, nor quickest, nor anything of that matter. I'm just saying that every rugby player has to put all those athletic traits to the test on a Rugby match. Everybody has to run non-stop for 80 minutes, everybody has to sprint at some point, everybody has to tackle, everybody has to take hits, everybody has to jump, everybody has to endure 300 pounds guys falling in top of you, etc.

The combination of all those things, for all the players, in a non-stop Rugby match is what makes Rugby the most demanding sport I can think of. And no, NFL players that get like 1 or 2 minutes of actual game time don't even come close to be in the discussion.

[midnightpulp]

of course the Argie would defend Rugby since it's comparable to bukake ball. There's no comparison between the physical prowess of football players (real football, not soccer) to rugby. Players wear all that padding and still get far more injuries regularly, rugby is pillow fighting in comparison.

Some more evidence:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/201...n_9183702.html

Now the ever perceptive DAF will say Rugby League and Union are WAY different, but this is what a two sport star in League and Union said:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...221592ebd8a152

An NFL player once flew over to Australia after the Super Bowl, and with ZERO experience in League, scored on his first try in the highest pro league.

Following his Super Bowl appearance, Moore was recruited by Australian New South Wales Rugby Football League premiership team the Newtown Jets for the 1977 NSWRFL season, with the move being financed by John Singleton.[2] He made his first grade debut just 98 days after the Super Bowl, playing on the wing against the Western Suburbs Magpies before 5,743 spectators at Henson Park. He impressed on debut, scoring the club's first try of the season.

Hayne fumbled on his first play in the NFL

I think this is why foreigners constantly trumpet "s-s-stamina" since they have no other argument when comparing the complete sports to each other.

[Mitch]

Some more evidence:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/201...n_9183702.html

Now the ever perceptive DAF will say Rugby League and Union are WAY different, but this is what a two sport star in League and Union said:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...221592ebd8a152

An NFL player once flew over to Australia after the Super Bowl, and with ZERO experience in League, scored on his first try in the highest pro league.



Hayne fumbled on his first play in the NFL

I think this is why foreigners constantly trumpet "s-s-stamina" since they have no other argument when comparing the complete sports to each other.

Stamina of Bukake ball players and Rugby players is pretty impressive, but they don't run the whole match, most of it is just a jog. Still, I'd give boxers and hockey players the edge in Stamina, skating is pretty good cardio.

[DAF86]

of course the Argie would defend Rugby since it's comparable to bukake ball. There's no comparison between the physical prowess of football players (real football, not soccer) to rugby. Players wear all that padding and still get far more injuries regularly, rugby is pillow fighting in comparison.

Here's what a Stater, that played both sports, has to say about Rugby and American football:

I can only speak to rugby and American football, as I played rugby for four years at a top-tier program at an American college, and American football for four years at a top-tier high school in Illinois. From that experience I find rugby more physically demanding on a game to game basis, and everyone I know who has played both would agree.

Here's the link to the rest of what he said if you are interested

https://www.quora.com/Which-sport-is...tball-or-rugby

[Mitch]

Here's what a Stater, that played both sports, has to say about Rugby and American football:



Here's the link to the rest of what he said if you are interested

https://www.quora.com/Which-sport-is...tball-or-rugby

So a guy talking about college rugby vs high school football?

Dude probably just sucked at football and is biased, couldn't make a college team tbh

[DAF86]

Some more evidence:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/201...n_9183702.html

Now the ever perceptive DAF will say Rugby League and Union are WAY different, but this is what a two sport star in League and Union said:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...221592ebd8a152

An NFL player once flew over to Australia after the Super Bowl, and with ZERO experience in League, scored on his first try in the highest pro league.



Hayne fumbled on his first play in the NFL

I think this is why foreigners constantly trumpet "s-s-stamina" since they have no other argument when comparing the complete sports to each other.

Get back at me when former NFL players get to make it to professional Rugby like former Rugby players have made it to the NFL, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

I don't give a if a WR runs faster than the faster rugby player, or any of that other you said. I'm not saying that Rugby players are the faster, nor stronger, nor quickest, nor anything of that matter. I'm just saying that every rugby player has to put all those athletic traits to the test on a Rugby match. Everybody has to run non-stop for 80 minutes, everybody has to sprint at some point, everybody has to tackle, everybody has to take hits, everybody has to jump, everybody has to endure 300 pounds guys falling in top of you, etc.

The combination of all those things, for all the players, in a non-stop Rugby match is what makes Rugby the most demanding sport I can think of. And no, NFL players that get like 1 or 2 minutes of actual game time don't even come close to be in the discussion.

Learn how weighting works.

What's harder? Becoming Usain Bolt (one dimensional athlete who is the best all time at one particular thing) or becoming Ashton Eaton (best all time at events that challenge overall athleticism).

It also depends on HOW those skills are challenged. Here's an analogy. Obstacle course A: You have to jump over a 10" barrer, throw a ball 10 feet, sprint for 10 feet, lift a 5 pound par. Obstacle course B: Lift a 300 lb bar. A "challenges" more skills, but B is obviously much more challenging. You might say athlete A is more "well rounded" than athlete B because he competes on an obstacle course than challenges more skills.

That's what I see with rugby. Jumping for aerials doesn't challenge leaping ability like jumping for passes (which achieve MUCH higher al udes). Dodging defenses in rugby doesn't challenge agility like dodging defenses in football. Rugby players are comparatively small and despite your claims, there isn't many 300 pounders in the sport. Lineplay is thus more challenging compared to scrumming.

This results in mastering specific skills being more challenging in football than getting good at a range of skills that are required to play rugby. I.e., it's harder to put on 350lb of weight, maintain a 5.0 forty yard dash time, have strength that can handle 500lb bench presses and 600lb dead lifts, have a good enough vertical to challenges passes in order to be a good NFL nose tackle than it is be an all around rugby player.

As an aside, this is why I back baseball as the hardest of the major US sports. The single skill of being able to make contact with a 2.5" diameter object traveling at high velocity with another object that has a 2.5" diameter is harder BY ITSELF than developing (in total) a good jumper, off hand, ball handling, and footwork necessary to becoming a good basketball player.

[midnightpulp]

Here's what a Stater, that played both sports, has to say about Rugby and American football:



Here's the link to the rest of what he said if you are interested

https://www.quora.com/Which-sport-is...tball-or-rugby

Quora links

Did you read what Jerryd Hayne and Sonny Bill Williams (actual professionals and legends) had to say?

[midnightpulp]

Get back at me when former NFL players get to make it to professional Rugby like former Rugby players have made it to the NFL, tbh.

Um,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Moore

"League"

"League is harder than Union."

- Union Legend Sonny Bill Williams

[midnightpulp]

Disclaimer. I don't dislike rugby. A far better sport with much better athletes than kickball. I just don't like the silly "stamina=harder" logic. You foreigners need to pick a different lane. At least DAF is trying by saying Rugby challenges a greater variety of skills per player than football, and I tend to agree. But I think developing, say, the elite sprint speed and vertical necessary to become an elite receiver is harder by itself than developing the range of skills needed to becoming an elite Union player.

And there's no position in Union like the QB, which is probably the hardest position to play in ALL of sports, despite it not challenging stamina

[midnightpulp]

Stamina of Bukake ball players and Rugby players is pretty impressive, but they don't run the whole match, most of it is just a jog. Still, I'd give boxers and hockey players the edge in Stamina, skating is pretty good cardio.

Mitch, what's your theory on why foreigners love "stamina" so much?

Mine is that the "athletes" who tend to have great stamina (like endurance runners) are typically short with bodies of little muscle mass. Foreigners are typically short, small, and have little muscle mass, so they can more identify with athletes who look like this:



than this

[DAF86]

Stamina is the most important athletic trait because is the only trait that plays a part on all the others. If your stamina sucks, you won't run as fast as you can, you won't jump as high and you won't punch as hard or bench as much weight as you normally do. Heck, you won't even think as well as you usually do when you are tired.

[midnightpulp]

Stamina is the most important athletic trait because is the only trait that plays a part on all the others. If your stamina sucks, you won't run as fast as you can, you won't jump as high and you won't punch as hard or bench as much weight as you normally do. Heck, you won't even think as well as you usually do when you are tired.

Handeye-coordination>>>>>>>stamina

If you don't have handeye coordination, it doesn't matter how great your stamina is. You won't even be able to: throw an accurate punch, throw (or kick) an accurate pass, dribble a ball (either in soccer or basketball), catch a ball, hit a ball. Stamina isn't going to help someone who can't even dribble a basketball.

[DAF86]

Handeye-coordination>>>>>>>stamina

If you don't have handeye coordination, it doesn't matter how great your stamina is. You won't even be able to: throw an accurate punch, throw (or kick) an accurate pass, dribble a ball (either in soccer or basketball), catch a ball, hit a ball. Stamina isn't going to help someone who can't even dribble a basketball.

Well, every professional sportman has elite hand/foot-eye coordination for the sport they play. So it's irrelevant to talk about that, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

Handeye coordination>>>all is easily proven too.

What's the first thing you do when learning the game of basketball?

How to dribble (a handeye coordination trait).

Then you learn how to shoot.

You only start building up the athletic traits AFTER you learn the core skills. If you have someone with amazing stamina but he has Parkinson's disease, I can literally score once and then go sit down watching him constantly dribble the ball away. He'll never score a basket, despite being able to run for hours on end.

[midnightpulp]

Well, every professional sportman has elite hand/foot-eye coordination for the sport they play. So it's irrelevant to talk about that, tbh.

No it isn't

And you're committing a non-sequitur fallacy. "Well, handeye coordination doesn't count because they already have it!" What kind of stupid rebuttal is that?

And guess who wins out between the player with better handeye coordination vs. a player with great stamina but an average skillset (skill sets are obviously based on how good your handeye coordination is). I would guarantee Messi doesn't have the best stamina in soccer. (just by virtue of how many soccer pros exist) Why is he the best? Best hand/footeye coordination BY FAR in the sport.

I would also say size and strength>stamina.

Shaq's stamina was garbage, didn't stop him from having the highest peak in NBA history.