Spurs Select C Nikola Milunitov

[Chinook]

which players? imma have to check that out.

Edit:

Larry Nance would have been nice or Josh Richardson. But let's give it time. There's no can't miss player after Milutinov imo Not like Jimmy Butler for example

Here's the list. Sort as needed. https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2015.html

[SAGirl]

Ice is correct. However, you could also consider that now the Spurs likely have to pay a larger buyout, likely by giving Nikola a signing bonus. Because that's money sort of coming out of his pocket, Milutinov will likely want more. So the Spurs then have to use even more of their MLE to bring the dude over. It's just a mess. They pissed away that pick trying to save like $400k in cap space, and they ended up not needing it (which was always obvious for those of us following the cap). Had they taken that pick seriously, it may have been a real contributor now.

To put into perspective, five of the top 10 players from the 2015 NBA draft in terms of win-shares and WS/48, and in BPM (and four of the top 10 in the case of VORP) were picked after Nikola. That list doesn't even include Powell and Richardson, who both just got max (for them) extensions. That wasn't the best draft ever, but it was better than PATFO treated it as.

What a massive fail!!!
And for what? Boban played almost strictly garbage time that season let’s be honest. I enjoyed watching the big man as much as anyone here, but he was a Spur for strictly one season. That spot could have been a development big if they felt they wanted a big. I always saw Norman Powell as a better version of Simmons anyways, athletic and quick 2 guard with good defensive potential, who likes to slash and get on the open court, and a slightly better (even if streaky) shooter and younger. Anyways there were guys Spurs could have used in that draft. 2015-16 season the Spurs were also the oldest team in the league and didn’t have any developmental talent in the pipeline except Livio who wasn’t looking like an NBA player, Davis who at the time had suffered a second ACL tear and couldn’t be taken for granted at that time and Kyle who was picked just a season prior and barely played at all hisrook year. Spurs sort of gave up on developing in 2015.

Then appeared to have reconsidered that strategy in the next couple of seasons

[SAGirl]

He's got a buyout next year and the following year and has potential to be one of the best bigs in Europe imo. He was coming out of his s in the Euroleague playoffs and with a couple years to establish himself he could be the next Splitter albeit healthy, hopefully.

Much about nothing tbh I understand the gripe about getting him cheap, but letting him develop in a good situation is mutually beneficial. He can learn on somebody else's time and pocketbook. What we save now, he gets later. It'll be okay. And if he doesn't turn out then he'll be cheaper. He's not gonna get an astronomical number no matter how he plays. The big money days are over in this league. The money for expensive role players are gone. Maybe yall fear another Javtokas scenario but I don't see it.

Edit: and by expensive role players i mean like when Turner, Crabbe, Bazemore etc got like 20 mill a year deals. Cause I know Patty and Ingles might be brought up or Pau lol

until RC wants to bring him over in a minimum or tiny deal and he’d rather stay over there then gripe on instagram that the Spurs reneged on an offer... Anyways I am not in favor of stashing personally and if you must stash don’t wait more than a couple more seasons. If the guy is so raw that he cannot give you some practice time scrimmage body and some garbage time or sick leave for another player then just draft someone else. Sometimes one feels that these stashes weren’t even BPA, just a player that agreed to get stashed. I am not holding my breath on him. The Hanga experience madecme skeptical on these stashes.

[raybies]

until RC wants to bring him over in a minimum or tiny deal and he’d rather stay over there then gripe on instagram that the Spurs reneged on an offer... Anyways I am not in favor of stashing personally and if you must stash don’t wait more than a couple more seasons. If the guy is so raw that he cannot give you some practice time scrimmage body and some garbage time or sick leave for another player then just draft someone else. Sometimes one feels that these stashes weren’t even BPA, just a player that agreed to get stashed. I am not holding my breath on him. The Hanga experience madecme skeptical on these stashes.

Hanga imo isn't even a player of any caliber to lose sleep over so to speak. He's a very flawed player and I don't think the Spurs really wanted to bring him over. If Nikola has any kind of success in Europe, he'll come over. European contracts aren't that big compared to NBA contracts so if he's worth it, it's worth it. I guess some are upset over him maybe taking the mid level exception but if he played his rookie contract and showed anything he'd be worth 8-12 mill per easy by the time he's ready, say we didn't stash him.

He was drafted in 2015. That means by 2019 he would be ready to either be extended, unlikely, or resigned. About a mill per for 4 years is 4 million. If he showed promise and in realistic means to his potential, while with the Spurs, he'd earn 8 mill to 12 mill per imo. So he has opt outs 2018 and 2019 with Olympiacos which would be about the time he would have finished his rookie contract. So you'll need the Mid Level or Cap to sign him. In 2018, it would most likely be some of the Mid Level and in 2019 it would be cap in my estimation. Anyways lets say he comes over in 2019, then you can give him a slight raise, have to see his current contract details with Olympiacos, using cap. This gives him time to establish himself and determine a value. If he played well with the Spurs his value would be greater cause he's in the NBA but if he plays well in Europe, it's seen in moderation. For example, Milos Teodosic, one of the best players in Europe accepted an offer for a 2 year 12 million deal, and Ekpe Udoh, who was one of the best bigs in Europe signed with Utah for 2 years 6 mill I believe.

Fact is as long as he stays we have his rights. Imo the way it lines up, 2019, maybe he becomes a solid rotational big or role playing starting center with Spurs, he'll be restricted but that doesn't mean we can retain him. In 2019, we have to resign Leonard and if LMA is gone, we'll have some work to do. If the summer goes awesome, you lose him for nothing. On the other hand, if you do wait till 2019 to sign him, you actually save four million, decrease value, and if all goes well, he is fully developed. If he comes next year on the exception, sure you lose a year at 1 mill but he still shouldn't be expensive. With Joff exceeding, I think he won't come till 2019.

Hope I explained my feelings properly.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't think his extension changes that much, the rookie scale went out of the window when they decided not to sign him this summer and how much he's going to demand in the future will depend on how he plays and develops.

Let's hope he'll get a full season as a starter instead of playing behind someone like Khem Birch. If he develops into a C version of Bogdan Bogdanovic I'm sure the Spurs would be happy to pay him and bring him over. If not he too will probably be posting on instagram how he's been promised or something.

[Maddog]

Hanga imo isn't even a player of any caliber to lose sleep over so to speak. He's a very flawed player and I don't think the Spurs really wanted to bring him over. If Nikola has any kind of success in Europe, he'll come over. European contracts aren't that big compared to NBA contracts so if he's worth it, it's worth it. I guess some are upset over him maybe taking the mid level exception but if he played his rookie contract and showed anything he'd be worth 8-12 mill per easy by the time he's ready, say we didn't stash him.

He was drafted in 2015. That means by 2019 he would be ready to either be extended, unlikely, or resigned. About a mill per for 4 years is 4 million. If he showed promise and in realistic means to his potential, while with the Spurs, he'd earn 8 mill to 12 mill per imo. So he has opt outs 2018 and 2019 with Olympiacos which would be about the time he would have finished his rookie contract. So you'll need the Mid Level or Cap to sign him. In 2018, it would most likely be some of the Mid Level and in 2019 it would be cap in my estimation. Anyways lets say he comes over in 2019, then you can give him a slight raise, have to see his current contract details with Olympiacos, using cap. This gives him time to establish himself and determine a value. If he played well with the Spurs his value would be greater cause he's in the NBA but if he plays well in Europe, it's seen in moderation. For example, Milos Teodosic, one of the best players in Europe accepted an offer for a 2 year 12 million deal, and Ekpe Udoh, who was one of the best bigs in Europe signed with Utah for 2 years 6 mill I believe.

Fact is as long as he stays we have his rights. Imo the way it lines up, 2019, maybe he becomes a solid rotational big or role playing starting center with Spurs, he'll be restricted but that doesn't mean we can retain him. In 2019, we have to resign Leonard and if LMA is gone, we'll have some work to do. If the summer goes awesome, you lose him for nothing. On the other hand, if you do wait till 2019 to sign him, you actually save four million, decrease value, and if all goes well, he is fully developed. If he comes next year on the exception, sure you lose a year at 1 mill but he still shouldn't be expensive. With Joff exceeding, I think he won't come till 2019.

Hope I explained my feelings properly.

That is an extremely disappointing take as it is very rational.

Another way to look at this is who should the Spurs have taken?
34 players taken after Milunitov and only 4 have appeared in more than 100 games in two years. In addition the two players drafted ahead of him are not exactly barn burners. Add in the fact that it gave the Spurs salary cap flexibility to sign LMA...

[Chinook]

Hanga imo isn't even a player of any caliber to lose sleep over so to speak. He's a very flawed player and I don't think the Spurs really wanted to bring him over. If Nikola has any kind of success in Europe, he'll come over. European contracts aren't that big compared to NBA contracts so if he's worth it, it's worth it. I guess some are upset over him maybe taking the mid level exception but if he played his rookie contract and showed anything he'd be worth 8-12 mill per easy by the time he's ready, say we didn't stash him.

He was drafted in 2015. That means by 2019 he would be ready to either be extended, unlikely, or resigned. About a mill per for 4 years is 4 million. If he showed promise and in realistic means to his potential, while with the Spurs, he'd earn 8 mill to 12 mill per imo. So he has opt outs 2018 and 2019 with Olympiacos which would be about the time he would have finished his rookie contract. So you'll need the Mid Level or Cap to sign him. In 2018, it would most likely be some of the Mid Level and in 2019 it would be cap in my estimation. Anyways lets say he comes over in 2019, then you can give him a slight raise, have to see his current contract details with Olympiacos, using cap. This gives him time to establish himself and determine a value. If he played well with the Spurs his value would be greater cause he's in the NBA but if he plays well in Europe, it's seen in moderation. For example, Milos Teodosic, one of the best players in Europe accepted an offer for a 2 year 12 million deal, and Ekpe Udoh, who was one of the best bigs in Europe signed with Utah for 2 years 6 mill I believe.

Fact is as long as he stays we have his rights. Imo the way it lines up, 2019, maybe he becomes a solid rotational big or role playing starting center with Spurs, he'll be restricted but that doesn't mean we can retain him. In 2019, we have to resign Leonard and if LMA is gone, we'll have some work to do. If the summer goes awesome, you lose him for nothing. On the other hand, if you do wait till 2019 to sign him, you actually save four million, decrease value, and if all goes well, he is fully developed. If he comes next year on the exception, sure you lose a year at 1 mill but he still shouldn't be expensive. With Joff exceeding, I think he won't come till 2019.

Hope I explained my feelings properly.

I disagree. If in 2019, Milutinov had four years of quality NBA service, you take that and are happy. If you have to pay him more that year, it's fine because a) You know he can play in the big league and b) With his cap hold, it's not like he's really going to hurt plans for cap space. I would have much rather have paid him something like $16 Million for the first five seasons than $13 Million for the first three and pushed three years back. And I think the actual salary disparity would be much more skewed than that.

[Chinook]

That is an extremely disappointing take as it is very rational.

Another way to look at this is who should the Spurs have taken?
34 players taken after Milunitov and only 4 have appeared in more than 100 games in two years. In addition the two players drafted ahead of him are not exactly barn burners. Add in the fact that it gave the Spurs salary cap flexibility to sign LMA...

The most important thing is that they didn't gain much flexibility at all. They got less than half-a-million bucks. They had more than that left after making all of their moves (including signing Boban). Simply put, with Tim agreeing to take whatever was left, stashing the pick for financial reasons made no sense.

[SAGirl]

Hanga imo isn't even a player of any caliber to lose sleep over so to speak. He's a very flawed player and I don't think the Spurs really wanted to bring him over. If Nikola has any kind of success in Europe, he'll come over. European contracts aren't that big compared to NBA contracts so if he's worth it, it's worth it. I guess some are upset over him maybe taking the mid level exception but if he played his rookie contract and showed anything he'd be worth 8-12 mill per easy by the time he's ready, say we didn't stash him.

He was drafted in 2015. That means by 2019 he would be ready to either be extended, unlikely, or resigned. About a mill per for 4 years is 4 million. If he showed promise and in realistic means to his potential, while with the Spurs, he'd earn 8 mill to 12 mill per imo. So he has opt outs 2018 and 2019 with Olympiacos which would be about the time he would have finished his rookie contract. So you'll need the Mid Level or Cap to sign him. In 2018, it would most likely be some of the Mid Level and in 2019 it would be cap in my estimation. Anyways lets say he comes over in 2019, then you can give him a slight raise, have to see his current contract details with Olympiacos, using cap. This gives him time to establish himself and determine a value. If he played well with the Spurs his value would be greater cause he's in the NBA but if he plays well in Europe, it's seen in moderation. For example, Milos Teodosic, one of the best players in Europe accepted an offer for a 2 year 12 million deal, and Ekpe Udoh, who was one of the best bigs in Europe signed with Utah for 2 years 6 mill I believe.

Fact is as long as he stays we have his rights. Imo the way it lines up, 2019, maybe he becomes a solid rotational big or role playing starting center with Spurs, he'll be restricted but that doesn't mean we can retain him. In 2019, we have to resign Leonard and if LMA is gone, we'll have some work to do. If the summer goes awesome, you lose him for nothing. On the other hand, if you do wait till 2019 to sign him, you actually save four million, decrease value, and if all goes well, he is fully developed. If he comes next year on the exception, sure you lose a year at 1 mill but he still shouldn't be expensive. With Joff exceeding, I think he won't come till 2019.

Hope I explained my feelings properly.

I respect your PoV, but I think there are opportunity costs missed here. There are players picked later than him that are already NBA players, right now, some who already got extended. It's not a stretch to say they are better NBA players right now and will be better NBA players in the future. At this point, I don't see him ever coming over. He might not be an NBA player, which is common with any late pick, but it's just the feeling he was picked simply bc he was amenable to get stashed and the Spurs didn't want a rookie prospect in the roster that season.

[SAGirl]

The most important thing is that they didn't gain much flexibility at all. They got less than half-a-million bucks. They had more than that left after making all of their moves (including signing Boban). Simply put, with Tim agreeing to take whatever was left, stashing the pick for financial reasons made no sense.

Good point. I appreciate the discussion about the financial aspect of it, since I wouldn't have known that on my own.
I think the roster spot was more precious. Financially, Spurs were taking flyers on prospects. They payed $500k guaranteed to Jimmer Fredette, and guaranteed the first season on JSimms who was not at the time an NBA player. Anyways, I think for Milutinov, his spot was taken by Boban. Boban agreeing to the one year deal he got, pushed Milutinov to the stash route.

[duncan2150]

Ice is correct. However, you could also consider that now the Spurs likely have to pay a larger buyout, likely by giving Nikola a signing bonus. Because that's money sort of coming out of his pocket, Milutinov will likely want more. So the Spurs then have to use even more of their MLE to bring the dude over. It's just a mess. They pissed away that pick trying to save like $400k in cap space, and they ended up not needing it (which was always obvious for those of us following the cap). Had they taken that pick seriously, it may have been a real contributor now.

To put into perspective, five of the top 10 players from the 2015 NBA draft in terms of win-shares and WS/48, and in BPM (and four of the top 10 in the case of VORP) were picked after Nikola. That list doesn't even include Powell and Richardson, who both just got max (for them) extensions. That wasn't the best draft ever, but it was better than PATFO treated it as.

I understand your toughts and i agree with some of them ( spurs could have taken powell or nance for example) but i'm more with raybies.

Imo Mulitinov could be a decent center in the NBA ala Splitter in one year or two and that's where we disagree, even for the MLE wich is not a big contract. He will not come for 10 million/year i think.

He was one of the best young center in Europe last year, he was improving and Olympiakos is a good place for that so we'll see in one year or two if it's a mess in comparison of all the other guys of his draft class.

[Chinook]

I understand your toughts and i agree with some of them ( spurs could have taken powell or nance for example) but i'm more with raybies.

Imo Mulitinov could be a decent center in the NBA ala Splitter in one year or two and that's where we disagree, even for the MLE wich is not a big contract. He will not come for 10 million/year i think.

He was one of the best young center in Europe last year, he was improving and Olympiakos is a good place for that so we'll see in one year or two if it's a mess in comparison of all the other guys of his draft class.

The MLE will be $9 Million next summer. It's not that far from the $10 Million you think is unlikely. It's as much the principle as it is the anything else. You don't draft a guy in the first round to give him $10 Million. You just don't. Maybe Milutinov actually becomes a star or whatever. I doubt he'll be better than Splitter was, and Tiago didn't get the full MLE either (his APY was about a third of the project MLE for next year). I can't justify it. The Spurs could lose a number of key rotation guys next year (Manu, Green, LMA, Gay, Anderson); they simply can't afford to use the MLE on a guy who at best would be a prospect you hope will be able to start in another year or two. It was horrible resource management to stash him, and I think the team realizes now that the market has changed to make future moves unwise. Euros are either coming over right away, or they're going to be overpaid.

[duncan2150]

The MLE will be $9 Million next summer. It's not that far from the $10 Million you think is unlikely. It's as much the principle as it is the anything else. You don't draft a guy in the first round to give him $10 Million. You just don't. Maybe Milutinov actually becomes a star or whatever. I doubt he'll be better than Splitter was, and Tiago didn't get the full MLE either (his APY was about a third of the project MLE for next year). I can't justify it. The Spurs could lose a number of key rotation guys next year (Manu, Green, LMA, Gay, Anderson); they simply can't afford to use the MLE on a guy who at best would be a prospect you hope will be able to start in another year or two. It was horrible resource management to stash him, and I think the team realizes now that the market has changed to make future moves unwise. Euros are either coming over right away, or they're going to be overpaid.

My bad about the MLE, i miss that it will be that high.... i think he will take less than the MLE if he comes to SA. The spurs could give him a contract without using their MLE no ? they have his BR ?
Maybe it was a bad moove to stash him ( not sure of that because he played more in Europe) but we'll see.

[Chinook]

My bad about the MLE, i miss that it will be that high.... i think he will take less than the MLE if he comes to SA. The spurs could give him a contract without using their MLE no ? they have his BR ?
Maybe it was a bad moove to stash him ( not sure of that because he played more in Europe) but we'll see.

They don't have his Bird rights because he hasn't been on the team. They have to use either cap space or an exception to sign him. If he takes the rookie scale (like LJC did) then they don't need the MLE. If he wants more (like Splitter) than it'd be the MLE.

As far as what it'd actually take, I'm as clueless as you are. Bogdanovic is on one end, and Teodosic is on the other.