Official 2017-18 NBA Season Thread

[raybies]

In a perimeter-oriented league, initiating the offense from the post seems a bit antiquated and inefficient.(1) It's fine against non playoffs teams but doesn't work against elite teams.(2) That's why LMA didn't look that good against GSW and Celtics this season.

Most teams have guards/wings to carry the offensive load. Also, something is bad if your best guard is a 40 years old guy.

Not true. Post has it's uses. I'm just gonna stick to the West on this argument cause until we get out it's pointless.

(1)We struggled vs Golden State because we sorely missed Leonard. But in the playoffs and the last couple years the post has been effectively used like the running game in football where it slows pace, controls possession time, and puts the game into a half court grind it out which I'm assuming the elite teams you speak of are the modern day pace and space squads. Those teams have little experience in grind it out games cause they hardly ever do it. In the playoffs this same offense was dominating a GS team until we lost Leonard. LMA going up against Draymond is a tough matchup especially without a guard to set him up. It's a classic scenario in basketball or boxing for example when it comes down to who can do the best to dictate the pace of the game or play to their advantages.

Post game has dominated Houston, an elite team, and currently number 1 seed in the West. We also beat Minny who is another team that LMA and the post will be strong against. Memphis plays two bigs and will eventually be a post battle considering the personell. Lastly, I'd consider OKC if they come back as another team that a post game would be effective against but we haven't played them yet. With Melo at the 4 you only worry about Adams, but with two bigs, we got an advantage.

(2) LMA struggles vs Boston and GS had to do with who was mainly guarding him. Draymond and Horford are tough matchups for him. What it really comes down to is length that hurts the post. Same thing happened with Orlando and now with Milwaukee. In Orlando they had Gordon fronting the post and it nullified the high low cause how long and athletic he is. They couldn't get it over. Same with Milwaukee. They fronted with Giannis and they couldn't get it over. Had Rudy made half his shots or Patty or Danny or we have half as many turnovers we win. It wasn't really the post tonight as it was people not hitting their shots and turning the ball over. It was a team loss. Not some part of our game that was exposed. No X-File scene here. Just simple basketball. We didn't execute. Manu even said they forgot about Aldridge.

Bottom line is, you play to your strengths. It only seems antiquated cause the quality of bigs in the post is weak as compared to the past. It's kinda like how the old folks use to say a jump shooting team will never win the Finals and I still agree cause every frickin year GS is gifted a path to the finals due to injuries. It's amazing fortune. Even GS goes to the post with KD when they can't hit the broad side of a barn. I've watched every game this year. So with Leonard and them not hitting they have nothing cause KD can't efficiently score in the post against him. Like some of my dudes have already realized, KD was the difference in the playoffs last year cause nobody could guard him.

Edit: But I do believe there should be a balance. I think that's why Joff, has the chance to be a big piece later down the road cause of his roll ability and passing combination. It does diversify the offense and gives us another option. I personally prefer the roll game than the post because it involves more people, but we have no rollers right now. We don't have a point guard right now. We have one star and a lot of players over achieving just to eek out games. But as for the argument I think we have a strong post game with LMA and KL. I think you go to it early and get them going and when they start fronting or doubling you go to the pick and roll. That will make a team pick the poison. Right now we are handicap and got to use the limbs we got....

[raybies]

Too bad ZaZa will be defending him. Embiid is way too big for Draymond. Still a good game to tune into.

Embiid will eat ZaZa up. Then they'll put Draymond on him. :hungry

[jyra]

[BatManu20]

[BillMc]

Rudy is a warrior. Achilles tear? No problem. Back pull? Let's go play.

[sasaint]

Not true. Post has it's uses. I'm just gonna stick to the West on this argument cause until we get out it's pointless.

(1)We struggled vs Golden State because we sorely missed Leonard. But in the playoffs and the last couple years the post has been effectively used like the running game in football where it slows pace, controls possession time, and puts the game into a half court grind it out which I'm assuming the elite teams you speak of are the modern day pace and space squads. Those teams have little experience in grind it out games cause they hardly ever do it. In the playoffs this same offense was dominating a GS team until we lost Leonard. LMA going up against Draymond is a tough matchup especially without a guard to set him up. It's a classic scenario in basketball or boxing for example when it comes down to who can do the best to dictate the pace of the game or play to their advantages.

Post game has dominated Houston, an elite team, and currently number 1 seed in the West. We also beat Minny who is another team that LMA and the post will be strong against. Memphis plays two bigs and will eventually be a post battle considering the personell. Lastly, I'd consider OKC if they come back as another team that a post game would be effective against but we haven't played them yet. With Melo at the 4 you only worry about Adams, but with two bigs, we got an advantage.

(2) LMA struggles vs Boston and GS had to do with who was mainly guarding him. Draymond and Horford are tough matchups for him. What it really comes down to is length that hurts the post. Same thing happened with Orlando and now with Milwaukee. In Orlando they had Gordon fronting the post and it nullified the high low cause how long and athletic he is. They couldn't get it over. Same with Milwaukee. They fronted with Giannis and they couldn't get it over. Had Rudy made half his shots or Patty or Danny or we have half as many turnovers we win. It wasn't really the post tonight as it was people not hitting their shots and turning the ball over. It was a team loss. Not some part of our game that was exposed. No X-File scene here. Just simple basketball. We didn't execute. Manu even said they forgot about Aldridge.

Bottom line is, you play to your strengths. It only seems antiquated cause the quality of bigs in the post is weak as compared to the past. It's kinda like how the old folks use to say a jump shooting team will never win the Finals and I still agree cause every frickin year GS is gifted a path to the finals due to injuries. It's amazing fortune. Even GS goes to the post with KD when they can't hit the broad side of a barn. I've watched every game this year. So with Leonard and them not hitting they have nothing cause KD can't efficiently score in the post against him. Like some of my dudes have already realized, KD was the difference in the playoffs last year cause nobody could guard him.

Edit: But I do believe there should be a balance. I think that's why Joff, has the chance to be a big piece later down the road cause of his roll ability and passing combination. It does diversify the offense and gives us another option. I personally prefer the roll game than the post because it involves more people, but we have no rollers right now. We don't have a point guard right now. We have one star and a lot of players over achieving just to eek out games. But as for the argument I think we have a strong post game with LMA and KL. I think you go to it early and get them going and when they start fronting or doubling you go to the pick and roll. That will make a team pick the poison. Right now we are handicap and got to use the limbs we got....

Well articulated argument. However, I don't think we have many players over-achieving. I think we have some young players still finding their way and some veterans playing very inconsistently. (The performances of Dijon, Bryn and BP3 last night - and Pop's ripping them when he pulled them from the game are my evidence.) Perhaps Danny's ulative stats indicate that he is overachieving but actually he has been inconsistent, too. I don't view his floor game as "over-achieving" but, rather, "development." Without Kawhi we are pretty fortunate to be where we are as far as record and actual play are both concerned. With a little more consistency from a couple of our guys, we would be significantly better than we are. It bodes well for when Kawhi returns - if Pop doesn't send some of our young, inconsistent but developing players to the end of the bench in favor of old, inconsistent, developed players.

[BatManu20]

[raybies]

Well articulated argument. However, I don't think we have many players over-achieving. I think we have some young players still finding their way and some veterans playing very inconsistently. (The performances of Dijon, Bryn and BP3 last night - and Pop's ripping them when he pulled them from the game are my evidence.) Perhaps Danny's ulative stats indicate that he is overachieving but actually he has been inconsistent, too. I don't view his floor game as "over-achieving" but, rather, "development." Without Kawhi we are pretty fortunate to be where we are as far as record and actual play are both concerned. With a little more consistency from a couple of our guys, we would be significantly better than we are. It bodes well for when Kawhi returns - if Pop doesn't send some of our young, inconsistent but developing players to the end of the bench in favor of old, inconsistent, developed players.

The gist of why I said that was because in wins we have like 5+ people in double figures. One game we 4 players at about 20+ points. These players wouldn't be playing that way with everyone healthy, I assume, and cause of lack of touches. But you are right they have been inconsistent and those inconsistencies have resulted in losses for the most part. Everybody has to pitch in and play well for us to win against almost anybody right now. Kawhi takes us to an elite level.

[kjhip1]

Sorry if repost, but take it for what it's worth, EN posted article with SA writers on kawhi injury. Some believe he could be back sooner rather than later.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.expre...d-12347566.php

[sasaint]

The gist of why I said that was because in wins we have like 5+ people in double figures. One game we 4 players at about 20+ points. These players wouldn't be playing that way with everyone healthy, I assume, and cause of lack of touches. But you are right they have been inconsistent and those inconsistencies have resulted in losses for the most part. Everybody has to pitch in and play well for us to win against almost anybody right now. Kawhi takes us to an elite level.

Yes, players' usage rates (and hence, stats) are inflated in Kawhi's absence. But to my eye, they are not really over-achieving. Things will definitely change when Kawhi returns.

In the not-so-distant past, having 4, 5 or 6 players scoring in double figures was not uncommon at all. That was when we had an inherently unselfish, great passing (and, yes, aging) Timmy as our BIG. (Sigh!)

[raybies]

Wish we could get him somehow but we have no space or roles available. I think he'd be a perfect Spur. Maybe some of the Spurs tree can nab him like Brooklyn, Utah, or Atlanta

[BatManu20]

[SAGirl]

Jazz are f*cked. i think they will miss him more than the Spurs have missed Kawhi (and they obviously have missed him, losing some very winnable games, had Kawhi been playing.)

[raybies]

BatManu20

[SAGirl]

Sorry if repost, but take it for what it's worth, EN posted article with SA writers on kawhi injury. Some believe he could be back sooner rather than later.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.expre...d-12347566.php

I had not seen that. Thanks for posting it.
It sounds like a bunch of speculation from the reporters... but still thanks.

[Ice009]

What does it say? I can't view it.

[SAGirl]

What does it say? I can't view it.

I can't view it now, but I saw it when it was available (a short period of time I guess). It was a panel speculating on Kawhi's condition. Some are saying he could still be back this month and that no news doesn't mean bad news when it comes to the Spurs and how secretive they are about things like that.

[marinoman]

What does it say? I can't view it.

Just tried it, it works for me, try it now.
It’s 3 writers guessing. 2 of them say it’s just the spurs way, McDonald though goes a bit further and says he expects him back before tony

[BatManu20]

BatManu20

Lol good call.

[Ice009]

Just tried it, it works for me, try it now.
It’s 3 writers guessing. 2 of them say it’s just the spurs way, McDonald though goes a bit further and says he expects him back before tony

I'm not in the US so I can't view Express News articles. Not sure if they even work with a VPN? I also tried a VPN with a Dallas server and it still didn't work.

[YGWHI]

Not true. Post has it's uses. I'm just gonna stick to the West on this argument cause until we get out it's pointless.

(1)We struggled vs Golden State because we sorely missed Leonard. But in the playoffs and the last couple years the post has been effectively used like the running game in football where it slows pace, controls possession time, and puts the game into a half court grind it out which I'm assuming the elite teams you speak of are the modern day pace and space squads. Those teams have little experience in grind it out games cause they hardly ever do it. In the playoffs this same offense was dominating a GS team until we lost Leonard. LMA going up against Draymond is a tough matchup especially without a guard to set him up. It's a classic scenario in basketball or boxing for example when it comes down to who can do the best to dictate the pace of the game or play to their advantages.

(2) LMA struggles vs Boston and GS had to do with who was mainly guarding him. Draymond and Horford are tough matchups for him. What it really comes down to is length that hurts the post. Same thing happened with Orlando and now with Milwaukee. In Orlando they had Gordon fronting the post and it nullified the high low cause how long and athletic he is. They couldn't get it over. Same with Milwaukee. They fronted with Giannis and they couldn't get it over. Had Rudy made half his shots or Patty or Danny or we have half as many turnovers we win. It wasn't really the post tonight as it was people not hitting their shots and turning the ball over. It was a team loss. Not some part of our game that was exposed. No X-File scene here. Just simple basketball. We didn't execute. Manu even said they forgot about Aldridge.

There is a difference between using post-ups and initiating the offense from the post. The latter was fine in the 90's but not in 2017.

If you look at the article I posted, they explain using videos how much Spurs miss a player who can drive strong to the hoop/also creates space for shooters from his pick-and-rolls (Kawhi), then they show how Spurs guards fail in the same situations.

https://nbamath.com/sorry-lamarcus-a...kawhi-leonard/

Obviously Parker will set LMA better but he's losing the ability to consistently attack the rim against athletic-lenght teams.

Manu even said they forgot about Aldridge.

It's weird that Manu didn't see Bucks' defensive adjustments on LMA.
They did a great job denying LMA the ball, he was exhausted in the 4th quarter to fight for the ball and our guards...didn't have the best night.

Post game has dominated Houston, an elite team, and currently number 1 seed in the West.

Not really. Spurs use mostly-48' post ups strategy just in game 6.

[YGWHI]

How long has Chad been gone now?

He signed with Orlando in 2016.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...op-8329578.php

[BatManu20]

[tholdren]

Nba is a joke. Lonzo ball shoots worse than virtually anyone who would come out of high school, yet he starts in nba. Laughable that adults even watch this

[BatManu20]