Obamacare Gets Vote of Approval

[boutons_deux]

"Bou don't care about the middle class or small business owner."

You Lie, and you have no links.

The problem with ACA was, is that the oligarchy owns and runs health care as a privilege, for huge profit, as yet another way to redistribute wealth from citizens to the Capitalists. That ain't ACA's fault.

[RandomGuy]

Once again partisian politics is all anyone knows on here. I never said I was for trumps version. I am for the full repeal of ACA however. Burn it down to build it back up. Single payer is the only way but I'm afraid that's flawed also. No amount of tweaking will work. People like Bou don't care about the middle class or small business owner. We are not going to matter until everyone is ed. Aca was a bandaid, a crappy one at that.



Burn it all down.

Ain't nuthin' perfect, but it is pretty obvious our health care system is , and costs way too much.

[sickdsm]

"Bou don't care about the middle class or small business owner."

You Lie, and you have no links.

The problem with ACA was, is that the oligarchy owns and runs health care as a privilege, for huge profit, as yet another way to redistribute wealth from citizens to the Capitalists. That ain't ACA's fault.

Did he seriously respond to my criticism of his at ude with a "where's the -posting hyperlinks?"


I think all lib-leaning posters on here should have to explain and/or defend this piece of crap the same way that they expect the right wingers on here explain Trump.

What a basket case.

[sickdsm]

Ain't nuthin' perfect, but it is pretty obvious our health care system is , and costs way too much.

So then you should be pushing for full repeal of ACA and single payer. Otherwise your a joke.

[RandomGuy]

So then you should be pushing for full repeal of ACA and single payer. Otherwise your a joke.

That is precisely what I would prefer. It won't happen until the Republican party is almost destroyed on a national level though. They have gone so far down the rabbit hole of extremism, they can't sign on to anything that might even approach it. Gerrymandering has made them extremists that only need to pass the most pure form of conservative political correctness to get to Congress.

The ACA was the most free-market thing we could get passed, and even though it was originally a Republican idea , it was passed under a Democratic president. The GOP, because it doesn't give a squirt of about regular people over its own interests, suddenly got a zeal to kill the ACA that borders on being a religion, for the sole reason that a Democrat might have done something people think was good.

[boutons_deux]

Universal Medicare and universal VA is the ideal

The oligarchy will block both, along with any progress for the bottom 4 quintiles, it really is hopeless

And not one of you can show any steps that justify any hope

[baseline bum]

So then you should be pushing for full repeal of ACA and single payer. Otherwise your a joke.

You'd need 67 Democrat senators and 290 Democrat house members to have even the slightest chance at that. Might as well pray for unicorns that cheap blood pressure meds.

[sickdsm]

That is precisely what I would prefer. It won't happen until the Republican party is almost destroyed on a national level though. They have gone so far down the rabbit hole of extremism, they can't sign on to anything that might even approach it. Gerrymandering has made them extremists that only need to pass the most pure form of conservative political correctness to get to Congress.

The ACA was the most free-market thing we could get passed, and even though it was originally a Republican idea , it was passed under a Democratic president. The GOP, because it doesn't give a squirt of about regular people over its own interests, suddenly got a zeal to kill the ACA that borders on being a religion, for the sole reason that a Democrat might have done something people think was good.

Again. Your pushing for single payer. Aca needs to be axed first. Where are you promoting that? B

[RandomGuy]

bou - I have no objections to paying for Medicaid for the disabled, poor elderly or children who can not fend for themselves. But, imo, able-bodied people who receive Medicaid should at least have work requirements. No one here says anything about the expansion taking away from the truly needy:

Second, repealing Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion would actually eliminate a major source of discrimination against individuals with disabilities. As I have previously written, the Medicaid expansion gives states a greater incentive to cover able-bodied adults under expansion than individuals with disabilities previously eligible for Medicaid. And states have done just that: Illinois cut medication funding for special needs-children on the same day it voted to expand Medicaid under Obamacare, and Ohio Gov. John Kasich cut eligibility for 34,000 individuals with disabilities, even while expanding the Medicaid program to the able-bodied.

Third, CCD did not speak out against Obamacare’s discrimination against individuals with disabilities prior to the bill’s passage. In a 14-page, single-spaced letter dated January 8, 2010, this coalition of disability groups said not one word about the fact that the proposed legislation gave state Medicaid programs a greater federal match to cover able-bodied adults than individuals with disabilities.

In fact, CCD not only did not object to the way Obamacare discriminates against individuals with disabilities, it wanted to expand that discrimination. The coalition called on Congress to expand Medicaid further up the income scale than the legislation signed into law. Had Congress done so, even more able-bodied adults would have qualified for a higher Medicaid match rate than individuals with disabilities—further entrenching Obamacare’s perverse incentives.

Let’s Be Clear: People’s Lives Are At Stake
Given this history, it’s more than a bit rich for CCD to be calling on Americans to “stand up for people with disabilities,” as it said nothing about an issue of critical importance to those individuals seven years ago. On the one hand, it might be unsurprising that individuals working for disability rights groups—with generally leftist political leanings—did not point out a key flaw in a bill that sought to accomplish the liberal dream of universal health insurance coverage for Americans.

But on the other hand, at least hundreds of individuals with disabilities have died awaiting access to Medicaid services since Obamacare’s enactment. These are just some of the more than half a million individuals with disabilities still on waiting lists for home-based personal care, even as millions of able-bodied adults obtain coverage under Medicaid expansion.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/07/...ricans-suffer/

Did the "conservative Foundation for Government Accountability" provide any benefit analysis to the economy of making a large section of people healthier through access to medicine or appropriate medical care?

This isn't a trick question, not trying for a gotcha, but merely trying to make a point about critical thinking.

(sorry for the reposts, this thread prolly got buried)

[RandomGuy]

Again. Your pushing for single payer. Aca needs to be axed first. Where are you promoting that? B

ACA = better than nothing.

I will not advocate for its repeal, unless fully replaced with single payer, and the ACA is not needed if there is single payer. The answer is "yes, IF replaced by single payer".

[sickdsm]

ACA = better than nothing.

I will not advocate for its repeal, unless fully replaced with single payer, and the ACA is not needed if there is single payer. The answer is "yes, IF replaced by single payer".

Then your just as bad as a politician. Lip service.

You think that i'm better off with ACA then nothing? Out of pocket is almost half rate. The problem is inflated costs bc of mandated insurance. Next time your at a hospital, for s and giggles ask them what whatever your getting done is going to cost with no insurance. Not saying it will be half but when they tell you, ask them about payment plans. It will drop even more. Then ask them what the minimum per month is to pay. You will be well under half. Too bad that we're aware of what the big medical bill can cost that guys like me are trying to get whatever i have to pay towards my deductable. Dirt cheap if i pay the hospital "under the table" so to speak.

No sir. When you say things like ACA is better than nothing, you are against middle class and especially small business.


Class warfare. We won. That must refer to the war on middle class, no?

[sickdsm]

You'd need 67 Democrat senators and 290 Democrat house members to have even the slightest chance at that. Might as well pray for unicorns that cheap blood pressure meds.

So give up and don't try.


Blame the otherside while your at it.

[RandomGuy]

Then your just as bad as a politician. Lip service.

You think that i'm better off with ACA then nothing? Out of pocket is almost half rate. The problem is inflated costs bc of mandated insurance. Next time your at a hospital, for s and giggles ask them what whatever your getting done is going to cost with no insurance. Not saying it will be half but when they tell you, ask them about payment plans. It will drop even more. Then ask them what the minimum per month is to pay. You will be well under half. Too bad that we're aware of what the big medical bill can cost that guys like me are trying to get whatever i have to pay towards my deductable. Dirt cheap if i pay the hospital "under the table" so to speak.

No sir. When you say things like ACA is better than nothing, you are against middle class and especially small business.


Class warfare. We won. That must refer to the war on middle class, no?

You do understand that millions more people now have health insurance, right?

I have audited HMOs, medical liability, and workers compensation companies. I have spoken to hospital system CEOs directly about how the ACA was going to effect both their hospital systems, as well as the HMOs within the company group. I have spoken to all levels of management of HMOs about the ACA, and how that was effecting their business, then reviewed the nuts and bolts actual financials.

I understand the cost-shifting, and price structures at hospitals. I read yearly detailed academic papers on the causes of health care inflation.

I am a genuine expert on insurance and health insurance. I have read the ENTIRE ACA and understand it pretty well. (it isn't as long as many think it is, after you adjust the print style)

The problems isn't mandated costs because of insurance, it is because so many people don't have insurance to begin with. Getting rid of the ACA will not help that.

[boutons_deux]

So give up and don't try.


Blame the otherside while your at it.

Get with the program of hopelessness.

There is no hope,

with voter suppression (which has not yet peaked) and

partisan gerrymandering (very probably to be approved as Cons utional "settled law" by the oligarchy SCOTUS5 ),

if the oligarchy doesn't have (just barely) enough votes to screw America,

then it will retain enough votes to block all progress for the non-oligarchy.

Tell us how you plan to "not give up" and "to try"

[RandomGuy]

So give up and don't try.


Blame the otherside while your at it.

If you like, give me the libertarian answer for getting people health care or health insurance.

Die and die quickly?

Pop quiz:

Do we ration health care in the USA?

[baseline bum]

So give up and don't try.


Blame the otherside while your at it.

Yes, of course you wouldn't try to enact single payer coverage when Trump is president and Republicans control both houses of congress. Is that hard to understand?

[sickdsm]

If you like, give me the libertarian answer for getting people health care or health insurance.

Die and die quickly?

Pop quiz:

Do we ration health care in the USA?

I see your on that "Libetarian is bad" kick still.


I don't vouch for whatever so called "leader" is promoting. Your question there is one a R or D drone would have to look up. Sort of a ask your mommy and daddy type of question. I'm a registered independent. I'm libetarian leaning. Only a clueless lemming would ask someone who is in favor of single payer insurance, which is about as non-libetarian position as one could get, a question like that. Go home, your drunk.

[sickdsm]

Yes, of course you wouldn't try to enact single payer coverage when Trump is president and Republicans control both houses of congress. Is that hard to understand?

Cuz dem are the bad guys and we gotta wait till we can ram things down our opposition's throat.



Not sure which side believes that more.

[baseline bum]

Cuz dem are the bad guys and we gotta wait till we can ram things down our opposition's throat.



Not sure which side believes that more.

We have seen what the GOP health plan is. They're in control, the Democrats aren't. What's hard to see here?

[Spurminator]

I'd nominate the side that delayed a Supreme Court nominee for a year.

[boutons_deux]

I'd nominate the side that delayed a Supreme Court nominee for a year.

the same side that's pushing pushing through the Senate right wing extremist / incompetent candidates in bunches of 4 or 5

the oligarchy's bloodless (but fatal) coup d'etat is entering the mop up / consolidation phase.

[rmt]

Been making doc appointments recently and don't any of you think that it's strange that the first question they ask is if this is an employer-sponsored plan (as opposed to an Exchange plan, I guess)?

sickdsm, have you tried to see if any organization (maybe a farmers' association) that you could join has any health insurance plan. Trump did sign that EO to allow small employers/individuals through association health plans the same treatment as large employer policies.

Here's what the executive order would do:
Let more small businesses join together to buy coverage. Trump is directing the Labor Department to study how to make it easier for small businesses, and possibly individuals, to collectively buy health insurance through association health plans. Small employers may expand their ability to offer group coverage across state lines, providing them with a broader range of policies at lower rates.
Association health plans are usually sponsored by trade organizations or interest groups. But the administration could amend the rules governing these plans so they are no longer subject to state regulation, said health policy experts. Instead, the nationwide plans may come under the same federal oversight as large-employer policies.

[RandomGuy]

Quote Originally Posted by RandomGuy

If you like, give me the libertarian answer for getting people health care or health insurance.

Die and die quickly?

Pop quiz:

Do we ration health care in the USA?

I see your on that "Libetarian is bad" kick still.


I don't vouch for whatever so called "leader" is promoting. Your question there is one a R or D drone would have to look up. Sort of a ask your mommy and daddy type of question. I'm a registered independent. I'm libetarian leaning. Only a clueless lemming would ask someone who is in favor of single payer insurance, which is about as non-libetarian position as one could get, a question like that. Go home, your drunk.

Fair enough.

Second question is still an interesting one. Think about it. The answer will probably surprise you.

[RandomGuy]

Been making doc appointments recently and don't any of you think that it's strange that the first question they ask is if this is an employer-sponsored plan (as opposed to an Exchange plan, I guess)?

sickdsm, have you tried to see if any organization (maybe a farmers' association) that you could join has any health insurance plan. Trump did sign that EO to allow small employers/individuals through association health plans the same treatment as large employer policies.

Here's what the executive order would do:
Let more small businesses join together to buy coverage. Trump is directing the Labor Department to study how to make it easier for small businesses, and possibly individuals, to collectively buy health insurance through association health plans. Small employers may expand their ability to offer group coverage across state lines, providing them with a broader range of policies at lower rates.
Association health plans are usually sponsored by trade organizations or interest groups. But the administration could amend the rules governing these plans so they are no longer subject to state regulation, said health policy experts. Instead, the nationwide plans may come under the same federal oversight as large-employer policies.

Did the "conservative Foundation for Government Accountability" provide any benefit analysis to the economy of making a large section of people healthier through access to medicine or appropriate medical care?

This isn't a trick question, not trying for a gotcha, but merely trying to make a point about critical thinking.

Simple question.

[sickdsm]

Quote Originally Posted by RandomGuy

If you like, give me the libertarian answer for getting people health care or health insurance.

Die and die quickly?

Pop quiz:

Do we ration health care in the USA?




Fair enough.

Second question is still an interesting one. Think about it. The answer will probably surprise you.

Actually i'm not happy with fair enough. I'm for single payer which is not a conservative nor libetarian position. Yet i still get accused of being a closet GOP, Trump supporter, etc... Fuzzy memory but not sure if it was you or baseline or whoever that accused me of defending Moore.


Partisian politics like this is what's wrong with america. Its not us vs them or the other side. The melting pot refers to politics as well. To me, that's the best part of being in the middle.