Should the starting lineup be tweaked...

[TheGreatYacht]

Kennard just owned leonard

Kennard is an inferior specimen. Just as Larry Bird was to Magic

[YGWHI]

Aldridge doesn't get many post touches with KL on the floor but when he does he rushes shots he seems to rush them because he won't get many other chances. He seemed to play better during the final five minutes of the second quarter without Kawi.

LMA is rushing shots and shooting like this month with and without Kawhi in the game.

29% vs Pistons 1st game, 39% vs Suns/Mavs/Rockets, 39%vs Jazz, 42% vs NYK...

He's not having his best games.

[BackHome]

They desperately need a good SG next year someone who can dribble shoot and create his own shot. They need to get rid of the tiny midgets Forbes and Mills the time of one dimensional players is over oh and add Green I can dribble or make a layup in that category.

[Play Boban]

Kawhi should be shown the dog house tbh.

[UZER]

Parker and Manu still major components of this team in 2018

[Hoops Czar]

Manu still a major component of this team in 2026

Fify

[SAGirl]

I know I'm just a huge Leonard hater blinded by rage, but this was easy to see coming. Kawhi doesn't actually work within an offense during his best moments because of his iso plays. It's just too hard to make off-ball movements when you don't know when and where the ball is going to be. Had Leonard come in and dropped 30-plus, it likely would have been easy to overlook what was going on. But 18 points weren't good enough. It also didn't help that Kawhi is still trying to draw fouls under last year's rules. He's letting the lack of whistles get to him, but honestly I don't think he's getting hit too much. He rather seems to be initiating the contact. Objectively speaking, I'd be happy with those not being called for non-Spurs.

Moving Bertans into the starting lineup would definitely help the offense. Parker isn't the problem, as we've seen from his games without Kawhi. He works well with Pau and LMA, and the others know how to play off him. Bringing in a dynamic shooter would definitely help with spacing. The defense remains a concern, especially since Kawhi is not really back on that end. Pop had him guarding a two-guard (unsuccessfully) most of the game, conceding a size mismatch for Green and using a guy who's clearly still hurt as the primary defender. That is sickening. Anyways, it would definitely be a risk to start Bertans defensively, as the man misses rotations way more than a starter should and is a poor rebounder. But it's something I would like to see them do.

Again, though, the best thing they can do is have Kawhi take a backseat for a while and focus on getting back into basketball shape. The team will need him to be ready for them to be their best, but they weren't struggling without him. So he doesn't need to come back in and have everything like last year. He should get his legs under him, play off LMA and then start picking his spots again. As the season keeps going, he can keep getting more and more comfortable with the rest of his guys before being ready to take over during the stretch-run. It would probably also help if Kawhi is the first one out for now and having him come in and play with the bench for a while each stint. Without Gay, having a go-to scorer in the second would certainly help, and if he comes in as LMA is leaving, the issues with them both getting touches will be reduced.

You make several different points here.
1. Bench leonard (which you kind of make at the end), isn't going to happen... for who? Kyle? No way. Even Pop wouldn't commit that sin. Just no way Kiwi is benched. Team will go down in losing streaks with him in this state and not bench him IMO.

2. Bench Pau for Bertans? Am I understanding that one right? I could see it, but they won't be better. Pau still spaces the court well, and is better in every other possible basketball aspect besides shooting. Pau will benefit the bench bc they have no inside presence without Gay (and frankly POp played an assortment of Pau or LMA previously with the bench even with Rudy healthy so I don't understand why now that Gay is injured he feels compelled to throw Joff with Kyle out there all of a sudden). Pop also threw the kitchen sink in with how many different lineups and guys he threw out there.

Pau improves the bench, but the starters will not be better. However, I think the point is that with Kawhiso and LMA game, they don't need Pau's skils that much. OTOH some will say that precisely bc of the lack of skilled passing that group's natural tendencies have, an unselfish guy like Pau is needed. However Pau is really shining outside of the Kawhiso games.

[YGWHI]

The ball movement was really bad with him in the game, Aldridge didn't get going until Leonard was out of the game.

Kawhi was driving and kicking to open 3-point shooters who missed every shot. He had just 3 asts but should have been at least 6. Danny, Bryn, DJ missed wide open shots

While I expect to see a two-man game between him and LMA, Pop doesn't call it...Then P&Rs involving LMA are reduced to Parker/Manu plays. When these two guys have bad games like tonight...LMA seems a ghost because nobody sets him well.

[Chinook]

You make several different points here.
1. Bench leonard (which you kind of make at the end), isn't going to happen... for who? Kyle? No way. Even Pop wouldn't commit that sin. Just no way Kiwi is benched. Team will go down in losing streaks with him in this state and not bench him IMO.

2. Bench Pau for Bertans? Am I understanding that one right? I could see it, but they won't be better. Pau still spaces the court well, and is better in every other possible basketball aspect besides shooting. Pau will benefit the bench bc they have no inside presence without Gay (and frankly POp played an assortment of Pau or LMA previously with the bench even with Rudy healthy so I don't understand why now that Gay is injured he feels compelled to throw Joff with Kyle out there all of a sudden). Pop also threw the kitchen sink in with how many different lineups and guys he threw out there.

Pau improves the bench, but the starters will not be better. However, I think the point is that with Kawhiso and LMA game, they don't need Pau's skils that much. OTOH some will say that precisely bc of the lack of skilled passing that group's natural tendencies and unselfish guy like Pau is needed. However Pau is really shining outside of the Kawhiso games.

I didn't advocate benching Kawhi. I advocated him being the first one out and then the first one back in. So Kahwi goes out after like four minutes and then comes back in when LMA sits. This puts one of the team's two best scorers on the floor at the same time while also maximizing their time apart. This idea is independent from the one about Pau going to the bench. I don't think it's as necessary to bring in spacing if it's only for a couple of minutes. However, it would also be something to consider when Gay comes back.

Essentially Kawhi will take over Forbes' spot and cedes part of his current spot to Anderson and the other wings. Same minutes but distributed between both lineups differently than before.

[cd021]

I know I'm just a huge Leonard hater blinded by rage, but this was easy to see coming. Kawhi doesn't actually work within an offense during his best moments because of his iso plays. It's just too hard to make off-ball movements when you don't know when and where the ball is going to be. Had Leonard come in and dropped 30-plus, it likely would have been easy to overlook what was going on. But 18 points weren't good enough. It also didn't help that Kawhi is still trying to draw fouls under last year's rules. He's letting the lack of whistles get to him, but honestly I don't think he's getting hit too much. He rather seems to be initiating the contact. Objectively speaking, I'd be happy with those not being called for non-Spurs.

Moving Bertans into the starting lineup would definitely help the offense. Parker isn't the problem, as we've seen from his games without Kawhi. He works well with Pau and LMA, and the others know how to play off him. Bringing in a dynamic shooter would definitely help with spacing. The defense remains a concern, especially since Kawhi is not really back on that end. Pop had him guarding a two-guard (unsuccessfully) most of the game, conceding a size mismatch for Green and using a guy who's clearly still hurt as the primary defender. That is sickening. Anyways, it would definitely be a risk to start Bertans defensively, as the man misses rotations way more than a starter should and is a poor rebounder. But it's something I would like to see them do.

Again, though, the best thing they can do is have Kawhi take a backseat for a while and focus on getting back into basketball shape. The team will need him to be ready for them to be their best, but they weren't struggling without him. So he doesn't need to come back in and have everything like last year. He should get his legs under him, play off LMA and then start picking his spots again. As the season keeps going, he can keep getting more and more comfortable with the rest of his guys before being ready to take over during the stretch-run. It would probably also help if Kawhi is the first one out for now and having him come in and play with the bench for a while each stint. Without Gay, having a go-to scorer in the second would certainly help, and if he comes in as LMA is leaving, the issues with them both getting touches will be reduced.

Don't see Bertans as a viable option in the SL though I get the point, Gay make the most sense when he returns with Gasol anchoring the bench with Mills, Manu, and Anderson sharing the floor with him.

Your point about staggering so Leonard and LMA both get their touches is something that is probably the best option. Something like this might work:

1st
12:00-5:00-Leonard subbed out
12:00-2:00- Aldridge subbed out

2nd
9:00-0:00 Leonard subbed in
6:00-0:00 Aldridge subbed in

3rd
12:00-5:00-Leonard subbed out
12:00-2:00- Aldridge subbed out

4th
9:00-0:00 Leonard subbed in
7:00-0:00 Aldridge subbed in

This give each at least a little time to be the focal point of the offense. During the time that they play together, Leonard can't keep doing his Kawhiso's to the detriment of Aldridge and would it kill Pop to run Kawhi/ LMA pick and rolls/pops?


Leonard almost exclusively runs pick and rolls/pops with Gasol while Aldridge is standing in the corner knowing that he'll never get the ball from Kawhi because Leonard will either pull up or hit Gasol for an open shot. Thought Aldridge did a good job of moving the ball instead of jacking up shots whenever he got it; Leonard needs take a step back and try and make more of an effort to fit in, teams are still playing Kawhi closely, he can use the attention he's getting to help everyone else get more open looks.

I'm being hard on Kawhi but i've been annoyed with what i've seen from him the last couple of games that he's played.

[SAGirl]

I didn't advocate benching Kawhi. I advocated him being the first one out and then the first one back in. So Kahwi goes out after like four minutes and then comes back in when LMA sits. This puts one of the team's two best scorers on the floor at the same time while also maximizing their time apart. This idea is independent from the one about Pau going to the bench. I don't think it's as necessary to bring in spacing if it's only for a couple of minutes. However, it would also be something to consider when Gay comes back.

Essentially Kawhi will take over Forbes' spot and cedes part of his current spot to Anderson and the other wings. Same minutes but distributed between both lineups differently than before.

Ok. I was very confused then as to what is your real suggestion. I think Kawhi can get his game back with playing himself into shape basically.

Maybe the starters just didn't come in really prepared and thought this game was going to be a piece of cake bc of how many guys the Pistons were missing. But I like the idea of staggering minutes more than Pop's idea of going through the entire suited up roster.

[cd021]

LMA is rushing shots and shooting like this month with and without Kawhi in the game.

29% vs Pistons 1st game, 39% vs Suns/Mavs/Rockets, 39%vs Jazz, 42% vs NYK...

He's not having his best games.

To be fair, LMA struggled tonight because of the defense and that Utah game, he just missed a bunch of makeable shots. He has shot poorly for him this month (45.0%) but Kawhi hasn't helped by messing up the flow of the offense.

[tbdog]

Leonard is definitely forcing, wanting to show his new skills, but he is totally out of sync.

[Chinook]

Ok. I am very confused then as to what is your real suggestion. I think Kawhi can get his game back with playing himself into shape basically.

Maybe the starters just didn't come in really prepared and thought this game was going to be a piece of cake bc of how many guys the Pistons were missing.

Essentially Kawhi starts and then goes out after four or five minutes. Then he comes back in toward the end of the first when LMA sits. Then he goes back out a few minutes into the next quarter when LMA is ready to check back in. Then finally he comes in to close the half with LMA.

If we think of these as chunks of four minutes:

	Leonard	Aldridge
12-8	IN	IN
8-4	OUT	IN
4-0	IN	OUT
12-8	IN	OUT
8-4	OUT	IN
4-0	IN	IN

It would obviously be more complex than that. But both guys are on pace for 32 mpg, the team has one on the court at all times and they each play half their minutes as the first option.

[YGWHI]

Leonard almost exclusively runs pick and rolls/pops with Gasol while Aldridge is standing in the corner knowing that he'll never get the ball from Kawhi because Leonard will either pull up or hit Gasol for an open shot. Thought Aldridge did a good job of moving the ball instead of jacking up shots whenever he got it; Leonard needs take a step back and try and make more of an effort to fit in, teams are still playing Kawhi closely, he can use the attention he's getting to help everyone else get more open looks.

But you know that's not Kawhi's fault if Pop designed plays that way, right?

I've said before I still expect more two-man game between Kawhi and LMA but Parker/Manu seems the only guys running plays with LMA, while Kawhi does it with Gasol and even JLo.

I'm being hard on Kawhi but i've been annoyed with what i've seen from him the last couple of games that he's played.

Well, Kawhi is deferring/passing the ball a lot more than last season. It could be because he knows he's not 100% or because he wants to fit into the offense.

[SAGirl]

Essentially Kawhi starts and then goes out after four or five minutes. Then he comes back in toward the end of the first when LMA sits. Then he goes back out a few minutes into the next quarter when LMA is ready to check back in. Then finally he comes in to close the half with LMA.

If we think of these as chunks of four minutes:

	Leonard	Aldridge
12-8	IN	IN
8-4	OUT	IN
4-0	IN	OUT
12-8	IN	OUT
8-4	OUT	IN
4-0	IN	IN

It would obviously be more complex than that. But both guys are on pace for 32 mpg, the team has one on the court at all times and they each play half their minutes as the first option.

Are you just a little concerned that these guys aren't making each other better? Usually stars want to play with other stars bc they each make the game easier for each other. The entire success of this version of the Spurs may hinge on Pop precisely balancing the talent that he has.

It might be too soon to separate them so much... although we have seen this b4.

Also, this is an aside... I'd like Kyle to remain in the bench if he's going to ultimately stay a bench player. I think his unselfish nature makes him a guy that is more vulnerable to chemistry with teammates than most. I think he probably needs to be more aggressive with the bench than he is with the starters.

Also, I'd like for Dejounte to continue to get some time. I realize Pop's preference for Forbes is due to his shooting but Murray adds so much in the hustle factor, which this team lacks from their guards (specially aside from Danny who is hobbled, and Manu who has the hustle but is 40).

I am with the poster above who mentioned the team's guards are in a pitiful state. When they play well (like Tony's good games, Manu's good games, even Danny's good games) the team looks very different. I like Forbes enough but I am getting tired of seeing him as a wing out there.

[ducks]

Pop told lma he can ing do what he wants on o

[ElNono]

Pop designed plays

Pop stopped coaching 3 years ago. Now he just goes on power trips against the rooks.

[ducks]

Pop coached tp to finals mvp

[ducks]

Spurs starters played 4 games together that even included preseason
and fans want a new starting lineup

[SAGirl]

I mean this is nice to discuss, but we know Pop isn't tweaking squat.

It will take a losing streak for him to tweak someone in or out. He feels comfortable tweaking everyone but any of the top 8 rotation players.

They might start looking for an additional big.

[YGWHI]

Pop stopped coaching 3 years ago. Now he just goes on power trips against the rooks.

"But but my players didn't respect the rivals, didn't respect the game...This is how it looked to me after the 1st quarter..."


I wonder how the best coach in the league couldn't adjust in the other 3 quarters


Still wonder how the best coach in the world couldn't make that Parker-Manu together work in the SL...Almost the same with Kawhi-LMA now


Imagine Phil benching Kobe for Shaq or vice versa...Kerr benching KD for Curry...


It's like everything outside of 4-down it's too hard for Pop on these days.

[Phenomanul]

now that Kawhi is back and Gay is out? I get that Pau is a great passer, but with options #1 and #2 being ISO Kawbe and LMA postup, Pau is somewhat underutilized. Maybe start Fathead (until Gay is back) in his place and let MVPau shine with the bench?

Kinda same situation with Tony, not all his fault he's pretty useless offensively. Maybe having another shooter in Patty/Forbes, or a penetration guy like Murray makes more sense, and TP can also have his big moment in a different lineup, tbh...

Tony needs more catch and shoot opportunities and less pick n rolls... they don't work against the faster guards, with a mobile big...

[bklynspursfan]

I mean this is nice to discuss, but we know Pop isn't tweaking squat.

It will take a losing streak for him to tweak someone in or out. He feels comfortable tweaking everyone but any of the top 8 rotation players.

They might start looking for an additional big.

Nah he's tweaked the SL before. I think the problem is we've had so much instability with them that if he does, it won't be soon because essentially that would be like him doing it 6-7 games into the season with Kawhi just returning, and that's just too quick of a knee jerk reaction.

I wouldn't be surprised if a wing gets dealt but I guess we'll see. Going the route of subbing Kawhi in/out earlier for now might happen, but Kawhi/LMA need to figure out how to play together at some point, Pick and Pops/Rolls, whatever. It's a simple game

[dabom]

We judging Kawhi coming back from injury?