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  1. #17426
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Do you know the standards for obtaining one?
    Not in detail no. Would obtaining a FISA warrant using an unverified dossier be practicing good standards?

  2. #17427
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    RandomGuy can you post your Trump is compromised by Russia theory again I want to cross check it with this

    President Trump announced sanctions Thursday against 13 individuals for human rights violations and corruption, including a Myanmar general accused of ethnic cleansing against Muslim minorities.

    Mr. Trump signed an executive order announcing the sanctions, which also target 39 en ies and individuals under the Global Magnitsky Act. The president declared a national emergency on global corruption and human rights abuses.

    Gen. Maung Maung Soe is accused of directing military operations against the Rohingya in Myanmar, a systematic campaign that Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson has called an example of ethnic cleansing.

    “The department is committed to protecting and promoting human rights and combating corruption with all of the tools at our disposal,” Mr. Tillerson said of the new sanctions. “Today’s actions advance our values and promote the security of the United States, our allies, and our partners.”

    The sanctions are the first to be issued since the Obama administration expanded the Magnitsky Act in 2016. The action will freeze the assets of the targeted people and restrict their access to the global financial system.

    Among other individuals sanctioned are Sergey Kusiuk, former head of an elite police force in Ukraine, and the former president of Gambia, Yahya Jammeh. Artem Chayka, the son of Russia’s prosecutor general, is also being sanctioned; as is Slobodan Tesic, a Serbian arms dealer, and a top financial adviser to the president of South Sudan.

    “Treasury is freezing their assets and publicly denouncing the egregious acts they’ve committed, sending a message that there is a steep price to pay for their misdeeds,” said Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. “At the direction of President Trump, Treasury and our interagency partners will continue to take decisive and impactful actions to hold accountable those who abuse human rights, perpetrate corruption, and undermine American ideals.”

    The Treasury Department also imposed sanctions on Wednesday of five Russian and Chechen individuals under the Magnitsky Act, including Chechen leader Ramzan Kadryov, who is considered a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin. He was designated for extrajudicial killings and other human rights violations.

    Three of those people played a significant role in a multimillion-dollar tax fraud scheme uncovered by Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, who was arrested in 2008 and died in a Moscow prison.

    The Kremlin has sought to have the Magnitsky Act reversed. In 2016, Donald Trump Jr. and other Trump officials attended a meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya and Russian lobbyist Rinat Akhmetshin in which Ms. Veselnitskaya has said one of her goals was to lobby Trump officials against the law.

    Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican and chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, applauded the administration’s decision to sanction the five Russians and Chechens under the law.

    “Corruption and human rights abuses have become rampant in Vladimir Putin’s Russia, and the Magnitsky Act serves as important tool in holding Putin and his cronies accountable,” Mr. McCain said. “I hope that these sanctions will provide the Russian people with a small measure of justice that they are denied under the Putin regime, and bolster the efforts of those who carry on the fight for freedom in Russia and around the world.”

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-individuals-/
    You still can't name one thing you have been right about?
    I generally agree Russia's efforts had little overall effect, but it wasn't for a lack of trying. The question is, whether we should put up with active efforts of an intelligence agency of a foreign government to attack the very idea of democracy itself. Western liberal democracy is under threat from authoritarian regimes. That is important.

    There is also the matter that the sitting president appears to be actively compromised by that same government.

    But then, predicting what Trump will, or won't do is sort of a mugs game. He never fails to do the stupidest possible, just when you think he can't be dumber.

    The thing about a good theory though, it that it both explains facts, and you can make testable predictions.

    Fact 1:
    Russia attempted to hack our electoral process through a multi-pronged attack.

    Fact 2:
    Donald "look how big my inauguration crowd was" Trump has done nothing but deny this even happened, and has gone so far as to take the extraordinary effort to delegitimize his own intelligence services when they something did happen. He has shown no willingness whatsoever to hold Russia to account for anything.

    Fact 3:
    Donald Trump has a pattern of criticizing anyone, and everyone at the drop of a hat. Allies, enemies, courts, free press, nothing has escaped his remarks and twitter feed, except for ONE/(two) thing(s), and that is Russia/Putin

    Fact 4:
    Russian efforts appeared designed to support Trump

    Fact 5:
    Trump directly called on Russia publicly to support his efforts to get elected.

    Fact 6:
    Donald Trump has gone out of his way to meet and talk with Putin privately in person, with no American witnesses. This is the only leader with which he has acted in this manner.

    Fact 7:
    Donald Trump, when forced to sign a bipartisan sanctions bill passed with a veto-proof majority of both houses of Congress, issued a signing statement saying most of it was uncons utional, and that his administration would enforce it as little as possible.


    Fact 8:
    when Russia retaliated against sanctions by forcing the US embassy to cut staff, Trump thanked Putin for the action, making him look weak, something he has said one should never do, and is inconsistent with his past behavior in any other regard.

    Theory:
    Donald Trump has been compromised in some way. Either he directly owes them money, or they have evidence of some kind of him breaking the law or doing something he does not want others to know about.

    This theory explains those facts, and is fully consistent with observed reality.

    Prediction:
    Donald Trump will take no action personally, nor will he criticize Russia or Putin in any way in regards to the Russian attack on our elections. He may allow his underlings to do some minor, inconsequential stuff, and if forced to do anything by Congress will drag his feet, if not outright attempt to veto any sanctions.


    The way to falsify the theory:
    1) Trump criticizes Putin/Russia (good)
    2) Trump orders/takes action that materially harms Russian interests (definitive)

    Bull conspiracy theories fail very often because either: they cannot be falsified, or they directly conflict with observed reality. This theory can be falsified, and does not conflict with what we know as fact.

    Donald Trump is unpredictable except for Russia.

    xylophone

  3. #17428
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    Would obtaining a FISA warrant using an unverified dossier be practicing good standards?
    It wouldn't happen. That's why there are standards.

    So what are the standards, TSA?

  4. #17429
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    What are the odds that the judge who recused himself from the Flynn case was also the judge who signed off on the FISA warrant?

    http://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/current-membership
    pretty slim

  5. #17430
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    Not in detail no.
    Not even in general.

  6. #17431
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Not even in general.

  7. #17432
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    RandomGuy can you post your Trump is compromised by Russia theory again I want to cross check it with this

    President Trump announced sanctions Thursday against 13 individuals for human rights violations and corruption, including a Myanmar general accused of ethnic cleansing against Muslim minorities.
    So let's see if anything in this rises to the level of "materially harms Russian/Putin's interests".

    Is there anything in this order that rises to that level? Pick the one that most matches that description.

    I'll even help you.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...se-corruption/

    Two Identified as "Russian".

    Sergey Kusiuk

    Sergey Kusiuk (Kusiuk) was commander of an elite Ukrainian police unit, the Berkut. Ukraine’s Special Investigations Department investigating crimes against activists identified Kusiuk as a leader of an attack on peaceful protesters on November 30, 2013, while in charge of 290 Berkut officers, many of whom took part in the beating of activists. Kusiuk has been named by the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office as an individual who took part in the killings of activists on Kyiv’s Independence Square in February 2014. Kusiuk ordered the destruction of do entation related to the events, and has fled Ukraine and is now in hiding in Moscow, Russia, where he was identified dispersing protesters as part of a Russian riot police unit in June 2017.
    Not wealthy. A minor police official who fled to Russia after being implicated in attacking unarmed protestors.

    Artem Chayka

    Artem Chayka (Chayka) is the son of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation and has leveraged his father’s position and ability to award his subordinates to unfairly win state-owned assets and contracts and put pressure on business compe ors. In 2014, reconstruction of a highway began, and Chayka’s compe or for supplying materials to the project suddenly fell under prosecutorial scrutiny. An anonymous complaint letter with a fake name initiated a government investigation against the compe or. Government inspectors did not produce any do ents confirming the legality of the inspections, and did not inform subjects of the investigation of their rights. Traffic police were deployed along the route to the compe or, weight control stations were suddenly dispatched, and trees were dug up and left to block entrances. The compe or was forced to shut down, leaving Chayka in a position to non-compe ively work on the highway project. Also in 2014, Chayka bid on a state-owned stone and gravel company, and was awarded the contract. His compe or contested the results and filed a lawsuit. Prosecutors thereafter raided his home. After Chayka’s compe or withdrew the lawsuit, prosecutors dropped all charges.
    The son of the State Prosecutor. Another comparatively minor figure.

    Please explain how this is "materially harmful" to Russian interests, or that of Vladimir Putin.

  8. #17433
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    It wouldn't happen. That's why there are standards.

    So what are the standards, TSA?
    It wouldn’t happen if standards were followed, you don’t know if they were.

    “Subsequently, however, former FBI director James Comey told a Senate committee that the dossier remained “salacious and unverified.” Obviously, if the FBI had not verified the dossier by the time Comey testified in June 2017, then the Bureau cannot possibly have verified the dossier when DOJ sought the FISA warrant nine months earlier, in September 2016.”

    Explain how standards were followed.

  9. #17434
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    It wouldn’t happen if standards were followed, you don’t know if they were.

    “Subsequently, however, former FBI director James Comey told a Senate committee that the dossier remained “salacious and unverified.” Obviously, if the FBI had not verified the dossier by the time Comey testified in June 2017, then the Bureau cannot possibly have verified the dossier when DOJ sought the FISA warrant nine months earlier, in September 2016.”

    Explain how standards were followed.
    What are the standards? You keep using that term. So what are they?

  10. #17435
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Theory:
    Donald Trump has been compromised in some way. Either he directly owes them money, or they have evidence of some kind of him breaking the law or doing something he does not want others to know about.

    This theory explains those facts, and is fully consistent with observed reality.

    Prediction:
    Donald Trump will take no action personally, nor will he criticize Russia or Putin in any way in regards to the Russian attack on our elections. He may allow his underlings to do some minor, inconsequential stuff, and if forced to do anything by Congress will drag his feet, if not outright attempt to veto any sanctions.
    He was presented with a list by the state Department, and signed what he was told to. The people involved were "minor" and "inconsequential".

  11. #17436
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    It wouldn’t happen if standards were followed, you don’t know if they were.

    “Subsequently, however, former FBI director James Comey told a Senate committee that the dossier remained “salacious and unverified.” Obviously, if the FBI had not verified the dossier by the time Comey testified in June 2017, then the Bureau cannot possibly have verified the dossier when DOJ sought the FISA warrant nine months earlier, in September 2016.”

    Explain how standards were followed.
    You claim that the standards were not followed. Your claim, your burden of proof.

    Shifting the burden of proof when it is rightfully yours is dishonest.

  12. #17437
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    So let's see if anything in this rises to the level of "materially harms Russian/Putin's interests".

    Is there anything in this order that rises to that level? Pick the one that most matches that description.

    I'll even help you.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...se-corruption/

    Two Identified as "Russian".

    Sergey Kusiuk



    Not wealthy. A minor police official who fled to Russia after being implicated in attacking unarmed protestors.



    The son of the State Prosecutor. Another comparatively minor figure.

    Please explain how this is "materially harmful" to Russian interests, or that of Vladimir Putin.
    How about arms sales to Ukraine?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.e9d99914cc17

  13. #17438
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    i dont believe CIA mouthpiece washington post. do you?

  14. #17439
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    You claim that the standards were not followed. Your claim, your burden of proof.

    Shifting the burden of proof when it is rightfully yours is dishonest.
    I already claimed not to know what they were and am asking if using an unverified dossier would be following those standards.

  15. #17440
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    It wouldn’t happen if standards were followed, you don’t know if they were.
    you don't know the standards at all.

    “Subsequently, however, former FBI director James Comey told a Senate committee that the dossier remained “salacious and unverified.” Obviously, if the FBI had not verified the dossier by the time Comey testified in June 2017, then the Bureau cannot possibly have verified the dossier when DOJ sought the FISA warrant nine months earlier, in September 2016.”

    Explain how standards were followed.
    I can explain how your pinning everything on a snippet of a Comey quote is pretty stupid of you.

    Would you like for me to do that?

  16. #17441
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    you don't know the standards at all.

    I can explain how your pinning everything on a snippet of a Comey quote is pretty stupid of you.

    Would you like for me to do that?

    Would you prefer Andrew McCabe testimony?

    “Investigators say McCabe recounted to the panel how hard the FBI had worked to verify the contents of the anti-Trump “dossier” and stood by its credibility. But when pressed to identify what in the salacious do ent the bureau had actually corroborated, the sources said, McCabe cited only the fact that Trump campaign adviser Carter Page had traveled to Moscow. Beyond that, investigators said, McCabe could not even say that the bureau had verified the dossier’s allegations about the specific meetings Page supposedly held in Moscow.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...s-planned.html

  17. #17442
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    Would you prefer Andrew McCabe testimony?

    “Investigators say McCabe recounted to the panel how hard the FBI had worked to verify the contents of the anti-Trump “dossier” and stood by its credibility. But when pressed to identify what in the salacious do ent the bureau had actually corroborated, the sources said, McCabe cited only the fact that Trump campaign adviser Carter Page had traveled to Moscow. Beyond that, investigators said, McCabe could not even say that the bureau had verified the dossier’s allegations about the specific meetings Page supposedly held in Moscow.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...s-planned.html
    Dodge #1.

    FBI officials don't comment on active investigations. You really don't know much of anything.

    You didn't answer the question: I can explain how your pinning everything on a snippet of a Comey quote is pretty stupid of you.

    Would you like for me to do that?

    Yes or no.

  18. #17443
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Dodge #1.

    FBI officials don't comment on active investigations. You really don't know much of anything.

    You didn't answer the question: I can explain how your pinning everything on a snippet of a Comey quote is pretty stupid of you.

    Would you like for me to do that?

    Yes or no.
    Yet McCabe is commenting on the dossier’s contents.

    And sure, knock yourself out. When your done with hashing out Comey’s comment please verify the dossiers contents.

  19. #17444
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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  20. #17445
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Smacked the down again.

  21. #17446
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    What arms are being sold? SAMs? Sophisticated artillery or counter artillery? Armed drone technology?

    Will these arms sales tip the military balance of power?

    Find and post a military expert analysis of this deal.

  22. #17447
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Your worst source yet.

  23. #17448
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I already claimed not to know what they were and am asking if using an unverified dossier would be following those standards.
    So you don't know. Why is it important?

  24. #17449
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Hey Randomguy, what about those sactions that Trump signed? That means that Trump isn't compromised, huh, huh?
    Looks like those sanctions were really insignificant. Can you show me how you think they are important?


    How about arms sales to Ukraine?
    Nice deflection.

    That means the answer is: Your earlier post was bull .

    This post is bull too. I predict you will not post any serious military analysis of this arms sale.

  25. #17450

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